Speaking in Tongues: Its Origins [Ancient and Modern], Purpose, and Power

[Dino246]

You think "hearing" makes a difference....LOL

If someone is "speaking" and no one is "hearing" it is because they are not understanding, because it is a language (not unintelligible speech) that the congregation does not know, a foreign language

LOL.... I can read Braille but I cannot understand Chinese

The problem tongue(s)/languages were not known or understood by most of the Corinthian congregation (14:2,14,16).

The problem tongue/language when interpreted was interpreted into the Greek Language (common knowledge).

The problem tongue/language (even when not interpreted into Greek) built up the tongue/language-speaker (14:4,16-17).

This views assumes that the speech was natural. If I walk into a congregation in rural Mexico and speak a message in English, which no-one there understands, I'm speaking a language foreign to them, but I'm not "speaking in tongues", because I'm not doing anything specifically empowered by the Holy Spirit. I speak in English daily. "Speaking in tongues" is a gift of the Holy Spirit, so the "all natural but foreign" view is contrary to the context.

Consider 1 Cor 14:19 "However, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instrauct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue". If Paul merely means "foreign language", how is it that he isn't using his mind when he's speaking? Does "foreign" language not require the use of the mind of the speaker? On the contrary; speaking in any learned language requires the use of the mind. It makes sense then that Paul is talking about something other than simply any language not known to that congregation.

 

[Absolutely]

The baptism in the Holy Spirit is the experience that preceeds tongues.

It is not knowing anything. It is from heaven,and it is confirmed by the word and authenticated by the same.

You guys will never,ever figure it out,because you can't possibly do that.

Like salvation,you can't convince someone who mocks and rejects it to mentally flow with what it like or to even be open to it. They are hardened against it. Conditioned against it.

All you can do is pray for them.

Actually ot boils down in both cases as a lack of fire in believers. A church with many new believers is way different than some extremely old clic of a church with dead old saints hanging around like premadonnas warming pews.
The backsliders condemn themselves in all cases.
Its like God in salvation is the fuel and the Baptism in the Holy Ghost is the fire that sets us on fire.
The walk is night and day different.
I don't think it is meant to be explained. It really can't be. It is designed to be experienced.

 

[Absolutely]

Where is this heavenly language recorded in the scripture

Where is the pentecost outpuring recorded in scripture?
A fish with tax money in its mouth?
Mud in eyes miracle?
God does not need any authentication.
He simply is.

 

[Noose]

The baptism in the Holy Spirit is the experience that preceeds tongues.

It is not knowing anything. It is from heaven,and it is confirmed by the word and authenticated by the same.

You guys will never,ever figure it out,because you can't possibly do that.

Like salvation,you can't convince someone who mocks and rejects it to mentally flow with what it like or to even be open to it. They are hardened against it. Conditioned against it.

All you can do is pray for them.

Actually ot boils down in both cases as a lack of fire in believers. A church with many new believers is way different than some extremely old clic of a church with dead old saints hanging around like premadonnas warming pews.
The backsliders condemn themselves in all cases.
Its like God in salvation is the fuel and the Baptism in the Holy Ghost is the fire that sets us on fire.
The walk is night and day different.
I don't think it is meant to be explained. It really can't be. It is designed to be experienced.

Before Pentecost (baptism of the Holy spirit), did the disciples heal/ drive out demons/ preach the kingdom (prophesy)/ do miracles?

 

[Noose]

When Balaam's donkey spoke, can we also consider that a spiritual gift? Why not? wasn't it enabled by God?

My point is, spiritual gifts doesn't mean God indwells a person but rather they are given temporary abilities to achieve a certain goal. They were not mean to be with individuals forever.

 

[UnderGrace]

This views assumes that the speech was natural. If I walk into a congregation in rural Mexico and speak a message in English, which no-one there understands, I'm speaking a language foreign to them, but I'm not "speaking in tongues", because I'm not doing anything specifically empowered by the Holy Spirit. I speak in English daily. "Speaking in tongues" is a gift of the Holy Spirit, so the "all natural but foreign" view is contrary to the context.

Consider 1 Cor 14:19 "However, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instrauct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue". If Paul merely means "foreign language", how is it that he isn't using his mind when he's speaking? Does "foreign" language not require the use of the mind of the speaker? On the contrary; speaking in any learned language requires the use of the mind. It makes sense then that Paul is talking about something other than simply any language not known to that congregation.

Paul is using himself as an example of proper behaviour, and really verse 18 and 19 go together.

He is thankful for the benefit of believers he is able to speak in various languages (tongues is plural).

But in the Corinthian church meeting, Paul would rather speak "five intelligible words."

He is comparing the benefit of the little (five words) that all can understand, meaningful powerful words to the many words.

When in the congregation he prefers to speak five words (meaning words, intelligible speech) with his mind fully engaged than to go on and on in a language and just blathering on like someone on a soapbox.

I guess some people were going on and on in that congregation.
Practical advice again.

 

[UnderGrace]

Where is the pentecost outpuring recorded in scripture?
A fish with tax money in its mouth?
Mud in eyes miracle?
God does not need any authentication.
He simply is.

Interesting since God and the angels always spoke in a language that was understood by the humans.

 

[obedienttogod]

You think "hearing" makes a difference....LOL

If someone is "speaking" and no one is "hearing" it is because they are not understanding, because it is a language (not unintelligible speech) that the congregation does not know, a foreign language

LOL.... I can read Braille but I cannot understand Chinese

The problem tongue(s)/languages were not known or understood by most of the Corinthian congregation (14:2,14,16).

The problem tongue/language when interpreted was interpreted into the Greek Language (common knowledge).

The problem tongue/language (even when not interpreted into Greek) built up the tongue/language-speaker (14:4,16-17).

I think the FACT the Greek specifies this IS NOT FOR MEN (us humans) ,but ONLY for God, explains that if you had a person representing every human spoken language all gathered in one place, not a single person would understand this Tongues.

Like I said, YESHUA is directing Paul what to say. So Yeshua definitely is not speaking about a human language, but the language He speaks in Heaven!! You know, the language which us humans cannot understand when it is spoken. We do not comprehend it to the point, that the Greek even specifies that we do not even actually HEAR what is being spoken!!

 

[garee]

When Balaam's donkey spoke, can we also consider that a spiritual gift? Why not? wasn't it enabled by God?

My point is, spiritual gifts doesn't mean God indwells a person but rather they are given temporary abilities to achieve a certain goal. They were not mean to be with individuals forever.

I would think anything that is of God is a spiritual( unseen) gift. It all begins with the same with the same thoughts of God and ends .He is the author and perfecter of the work of faith he we works in us . .just as we are informed in Philippians 2.. For it is God who does work in us, with us to both will and do His good pleasure. What's interesting is the next phrase Do it without murmuring or complaining. It is like a warning beforehand to those who are having difficulty with the idea of self edification , as if God set up signs to show others have some honey.

Balaam's Donkey, a unclean animal... is used to represent unbelief in the heart of natural man. The Donkey is used in a cerinimoinal law as parable in respect again to unbelief (no faith) in the heart of natural man A lamb is to represent Christ it must be sacrificed as a show of mercy of God, or the neck is to be broken .

The Holy Spirit as one of the many manners that he did bring His word prophecy . Sent as Ass who served as a apostle in the truest sense of the word (sent one) with no other meaning added . An apostle as a prophet, one who declares prophecy as a messenger of God . That prophet in Numbers is shown is prophesying and it is shown it worked stopping the madness of that false prophet, Balaam.

 

[wolfwint]

Ok, here are some verses in a complete passage of scripture, that are CLEAR, that when these people received the Holy Spirit (this means they are now in the Spirit), they spoke in Tongues and there is no INTERPRETATION, because those around DID NOT UNDERSTAND what they were speaking.

(1) this passage proves speaking in Tongues in the Holy Spirit
(2) proves NO ONE around understood but knew it was Tongues
(3) there is NO INTERPRETATION because this is the UNKNOWN SPOKEN TONGUES that ONLY God can understand.
(4) This ultimately then PROVES what Paul claimed about the Unknown Tongues being a mystery spoken in the Spirit that no man understands, only God understands!!


God brought to my attention something that I will add:

Acts 10:
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.


I was asked how can Tongues happen and there be no interpretation?

Here is the perfect example: ^

Tongues is spoken and NO INTERPRETATION because it's obvious this is known as the UNKNOWN TONGUE, Paul speaks that ONLY GOD understands!!

Acts 10 nothing more then shows to the jews, that the gospel is for the Gentiles too.
If they could not understand the tongues, how they lnow they magnify God. And if it is was no languages, how the can then compare with the pentecost coming of the Holy Spirit?


Everything I have been saying the entire time concerning Tongues, that many of you have come against me about, is ALL proven in this passage of scripture!!

Ok, here are some verses in a complete passage of scripture, that are CLEAR, that when these people received the Holy Spirit (this means they are now in the Spirit), they spoke in Tongues and there is no INTERPRETATION, because those around DID NOT UNDERSTAND what they were speaking.

(1) this passage proves speaking in Tongues in the Holy Spirit
(2) proves NO ONE around understood but knew it was Tongues
(3) there is NO INTERPRETATION because this is the UNKNOWN SPOKEN TONGUES that ONLY God can understand.
(4) This ultimately then PROVES what Paul claimed about the Unknown Tongues being a mystery spoken in the Spirit that no man understands, only God understands!!


God brought to my attention something that I will add:

Acts 10:
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.


I was asked how can Tongues happen and there be no interpretation?

Here is the perfect example: ^

Tongues is spoken and NO INTERPRETATION because it's obvious this is known as the UNKNOWN TONGUE, Paul speaks that ONLY GOD understands!!


Everything I have been saying the entire time concerning Tongues, that many of you have come against me about, is ALL proven in this passage of scripture!!

Well acts 10 shows only what its said in the text. God shows Peter in an special way that the gospel is also for the gentiles. That they made the same expierience as it was reportet from pentecost, except the tounges of flame.
I understand the text in this way that the speaking in tongues where the same then at pentecost. At this time spoken languages. Otherwise they would not understand that they praise God.

 

[garee]

duplicate

 

[wolfwint]

For his time, Billy Graham fulfilled a lot of what we see Paul did. Before that was men like D.L. Moody, Billy Sunday and there are several more. But as of today, I do not see anyone remotely close to what Paul had achieved.

Billy Graham ore Moody had the same call and gifts like Paul? You are serious? Where are the miracles from them both? Where they had to suffer like Paul did? Where Jesus met them, like he did to Paul?
Yes, i believe his call to someone is unique and personel. But i believe nobody can be compared to Paul.

 

[obedienttogod]

Interesting since God and the angels always spoke in a language that was understood by the humans.

On Earth and present before humans, they spoke so the humans understood them. But Paul states that eventually ALL LANGUAGES will one day end. What language then will be LEFT, for those of us, who after this Earth passes and a NEW ONE takes its place will speak? This is most likely the Language of Heaven that all of us will speak. This is most likely the TONGUES that Yeshua is having Paul speak about that NO HUMAN can understand, ONLY God can understand!!

 

[wolfwint]

This is how we know the Gifts vary. They all require faith, to begin with. But when there is a stark difference like touching someone in healing, compared to just beginning to speak in a language that no one else understands. There has to be common sense present to understand when Speaking in Tongues is appropriate vs just touching someone to heal them.

Paul taught his churches these differences. If Paul is an example, then churches that speak in Tongues should be taught when the appropriate situations are for Speaking in Tongues. That s the responsibility of the Pastor of that church. He/She after all, is the shepherd!!

Your are shure? Is it not the duty of the teacher of the church and not the shepherd? Today we fix the whole thing in one person. It was not so in the first time.
And if we talk about healing what then about James 5? The duty of the eldest (plural) of the church and not the duty of anyone else.
But it leads away from the OP theme.
Speaking in tongues as it is proclaimed today since Agnes Ozman, is not that what I can find taught in the bible.

 

[obedienttogod]

Well acts 10 shows only what its said in the text. God shows Peter in an special way that the gospel is also for the gentiles. That they made the same expierience as it was reportet from pentecost, except the tounges of flame.
I understand the text in this way that the speaking in tongues where the same then at pentecost. At this time spoken languages. Otherwise they would not understand that they praise God.

It says those around were astonished (έκπληκτος)(dumbfounded - stupefied). It means they knew it was Tongues, but did not understand it. But Yeshua allowed Peter to know it was authentic and that is why Peter suggested they also be baptized.

 

[obedienttogod]

Billy Graham ore Moody had the same call and gifts like Paul? You are serious? Where are the miracles from them both? Where they had to suffer like Paul did? Where Jesus met them, like he did to Paul?
Yes, i believe his call to someone is unique and personel. But i believe nobody can be compared to Paul.

No, I meant those men through God accomplished a lot for their time just like Paul did in the original church. Did Paul do more than Yeshua? No, Paul could NEVER die, be buried, and resurrect on his own power. Does that take away from what Paul did since he never could do as much as Yeshua? NO!!

This is the same with those great men of God I mentioned.

And something else, PAUL makes it CLEAR, that what he preaches, teaches, writes, IS NOT him doing, but that it is YESHUA doing it through him. So in that viewpoint, Paul DID NOTHING, Yeshua is WHO we read in Paul's letters, not Paul!!

 

[obedienttogod]

Your are shure? Is it not the duty of the teacher of the church and not the shepherd? Today we fix the whole thing in one person. It was not so in the first time.
And if we talk about healing what then about James 5? The duty of the eldest (plural) of the church and not the duty of anyone else.
But it leads away from the OP theme.
Speaking in tongues as it is proclaimed today since Agnes Ozman, is not that what I can find taught in the bible.

All of your questions can be answered in this manner...

We DO NOT SEE WOMEN PREACHERS or PROPHETS in the scripture. But today, WOMEN are pastors and Bible teachers. WHY are WOMEN doing something we do not see in the BIBLE?

Because the men who God wanted to be Pastors, NEVER accepted their CALL from God, and God always uses those who give themselves to be used by God.


This is why ANYONE who has FAITH can be the one to pray and bring healing.


Even in scripture, we see God use things like a donkey, like an Angel, Burning Bush to communicate to His Creation. This is why I don't question WOMEN Preachers when we do not see them in the Bible. God uses what HE chooses to use and WE just have to ACCEPT IT!! Even if we like it or not!!

The same is with Tongues and the other Gifts. We don't have to like what is happening, we just have to know how to GET OUT OF GOD'S WAY when He wants it done!!

 

[garee]

This views assumes that the speech was natural. If I walk into a congregation in rural Mexico and speak a message in English, which no-one there understands, I'm speaking a language foreign to them, but I'm not "speaking in tongues", because I'm not doing anything specifically empowered by the Holy Spirit. I speak in English daily. "Speaking in tongues" is a gift of the Holy Spirit, so the "all natural but foreign" view is contrary to the context.

Consider 1 Cor 14:19 "However, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instrauct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue". If Paul merely means "foreign language", how is it that he isn't using his mind when he's speaking? Does "foreign" language not require the use of the mind of the speaker? On the contrary; speaking in any learned language requires the use of the mind. It makes sense then that Paul is talking about something other than simply any language not known to that congregation.

"Speaking in tongues" The Holy Spirit is simply bringing prophecy.... His thoughts coming as he alone interprets them into any language his soul desires. .

God forbids the idea of the "private interpretations" or "private revelations". Make a noise and find a interpreter.... as some kind sign gift seekers, Some use the things of men seen to rise above all things written in the law and the prophets .(The Bible. ) As a private source of "will faith" (name it claim it) .Called "will worship" in Colossian 2.

Since the main subject is the sign connected to the doctrine of tongues as the hope of the idea of a sign gift .

What does it confirm as a law not subject to change.?

Does the sign represent a curse or a blessing? It cannot as a sign represent both. It serves one master never tow.. It would be like a sign that says: "You have entered city limits" and in the same breath: "Thanks come again you have existed the twilight Zone city ".

What does the sign of tongues represent and what does the sign confirm? Not what does tongues, as prophecy do? That common knowledge it bring belief, when none existed .Then the rest of the doctrine can fall into its place

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

 

[obedienttogod]

"Speaking in tongues" The Holy Spirit is simply bringing prophecy.... His thoughts coming as he alone interprets them into any language his soul desires. .

God forbids the idea of the "private interpretations" or "private revelations". Make a noise and find a interpreter.... as some kind sign gift seekers, Some use the things of men seen to rise above all things written in the law and the prophets .(The Bible. ) As a private source of "will faith" (name it claim it) .Called "will worship" in Colossian 2.

Since the main subject is the sign connected to the doctrine of tongues as the hope of the idea of a sign gift .

What does it confirm as a law not subject to change.?

Does the sign represent a curse or a blessing? It cannot as a sign represent both. It serves one master never tow.. It would be like a sign that says: "You have entered city limits" and in the same breath: "Thanks come again you have existed the twilight Zone city ".

What does the sign of tongues represent and what does the sign confirm? Not what does tongues, as prophecy do? That common knowledge it bring belief, when none existed .Then the rest of the doctrine can fall into its place

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

Not all spoken Tongues will be interpreted, like Paul (Yeshua, since Paul claims Yeshua is the one directing him in what he preaches, teaches, writes) mentions.

There is a spoken Tongue not for humans, that humans cannot comprehend it, and it literally means, they do not actually hear it when it is spoken in front of them.

And the perfect example of Tongues spoken without interpretation is:




Acts 10:
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.


I was asked how can Tongues happen and there be no interpretation?

Here is the perfect example: ^

Tongues is spoken and NO INTERPRETATION because it's obvious this is known as the UNKNOWN TONGUE, Paul speaks that ONLY GOD understands!!

 

[UnderGrace]

On Earth and present before humans, they spoke so the humans understood them. But Paul states that eventually ALL LANGUAGES will one day end. What language then will be LEFT, for those of us, who after this Earth passes and a NEW ONE takes its place will speak? This is most likely the Language of Heaven that all of us will speak. This is most likely the TONGUES that Yeshua is having Paul speak about that NO HUMAN can understand, ONLY God can understand!!

All supposition...