Speaking in Tongues: Its Origins [Ancient and Modern], Purpose, and Power

[obedienttogod]

i don't remember anyone in the Bible being taught to speak in tongues. IIRC they all did it spontaneously, by the Spirit.

the instruction in the Bible about speaking in tongues is concerned with organization and proper time and place, not "how to do it" -- right?

this idea disturbs me. i have to go do some things atm.. back later with hopefully more cohesive and collected thoughts.

True, but had someone did it in a manner not of God, I am sure Peter or Paul would have corrected them like they did on many other things. This is what I mean by teaching.

A Pastor could preach and say, we need to be careful how we speak in Tongues, we need to know when it is proper and when it should never be done. This is what I mean by learn and being taught.

Guidelines, is what I am specifying.

 

[obedienttogod]

What I find interesting about Paul's discussion on tongues in Corinthians is that it seems he has not witnessed any of these "tongues" speakers at work as he states that he is hearing thing second hand.

(1 Cor 1:11 For members of Chloe's household have made it clear to me, my brothers and sisters, that there are quarrels among you.)

HUH?

Paul bragged about speaking in Tongues more than anyone else.

This is clear he has heard others do it, in order to know he does it more!!

Can we twist scripture some more or am I still in a big surprise for your next attempt?

 

[obedienttogod]

azamzimtoti said:[/URL]
What I find interesting about Paul's discussion on tongues in Corinthians is that it seems he has not witnessed any of these "tongues" speakers at work as he states that he is hearing thing second hand.

(1 Cor 1:11 For members of Chloe's household have made it clear to me, my brothers and sisters, that there are quarrels among you.)
A very important note indeed.



"UnderGrace, post: 3899651, member: 239621"]A very important note indeed.

2 peas in the same pod?

Both clueless!!

 

[obedienttogod]

And so........

...IT'S OBVIOUS YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE!!

 

[obedienttogod]

Kindly do not respond to my posts....if I had wanted to refer to "Olde English" that is what I would have typed out ...old is an adjective.
I sincerely doubt you are more trained in English literature that I am.
Please put me on ignore.

You don't even understand current English, by all of the posts of yours that I have quoted and responded to!!

 

[obedienttogod]

Paul "I am able to speak more foreign languages than all of you."

18 I thank God that I speak in a language more than all of you.

language = Γλώσσα

Translations of γλώσσα

tongue
γλώσσα



Paul is not a (mean person), so he would not brag about speaking more foreign languages, when THAT HAS nothing to do with God and to be thankful for.
He is writing a letter of encouragement.
Why would he tear them down over foreign languages?

This clearly is speaking about Tongues, as in, not of human languages!!

 

[wolfwint]

This is a 2 part answer:

part one
First of all, how or where has it ever been proven, that 90% is exactly the correct percentage of those who are falsely speaking in Tongues?


part two
I disagree with your 90% assessment, but, I do believe there is a correct percentage that are doing it wrong. And this simply because they were taught incorrectly. So, shame on their Pastor!!

To First Part. This is what Madhermit said in bis Post ( before 62)
To 2nd part: if it is a Gift from the Holy Spirit, there is no Need of Guidance through a Pastor.

 

[obedienttogod]

To First Part. This is what Madhermit said in bis Post ( before 62)
To 2nd part: if it is a Gift from the Holy Spirit, there is no Need of Guidance through a Pastor.

When you first accepted Yeshua as your personal Lord and Savior, did you know everything about Him? Even when you read the WORD and prayed for understanding, in the beginning you only knew a small amount of knowledge concerning Yeshua. But as you went to church, Bible study, and continued on your reading and praying, TODAY, you know way more than you used to know.

Every Gift from God is the same way. There are proper ways they should be used. There are proper times when they should be used and not be used. Just because God granted you with a Gift, did not mean you knew it all 100% immediately. Sometimes, a smart person will observe others in the same Gift, or your Pastor might preach when the proper times are when you should use these Gifts. But all along, you are learning more and more about your Gift.

Paul set up churches, hundreds would be saved.
Did he just forget them and move on?
NO
He wrote them letters how to use their Gifts and how to be a Believer, he wrote about everything he felt they needed to know about God in order for them to be successful. He just did not say, you are saved and now you are on your own and the Holy spirit will help you. He actually began teaching them step by step.
AND
He would send others to those churches to help them.


So, by you saying the Holy Spirit should automatically instruct me in everything about speaking in Tongues, with NO HELP from those who were already speaking in tongues, proves you do not realize that Paul was also teaching them. Which means, God always has those in place to help those in need.

This should be common sense!!

 

[wolfwint]

It does say you must be in Spirit to speak in the unknown Tongues ,since it cannot be interpreted by man, and is ONLY HEARD and understood by God.

1 Cor 14:
" 2 For he who is speaking in a unknown language is not speaking to men, but to God, for no one is hearing, yet in spirit he is speaking secrets."

This vers is not saying that this is the same. This vers is speaking about speaking in tongues and not about praying in the Spirit.

 

[wolfwint]

Why do we not have the same mission Paul had? If we know what Paul said is from God, and we know Paul IS NO LONGER ON EARTH TO TEACH IT, then it falls upon us to do what Paul did. This is why we have missionaries, why there is a thing called your HOME CHURCH and then the churches your HOME CHURCH planted around the world.

Your logic is flawed!!

So tell me the one who has exactly the same Call and gifts which Paul had. We have the Great commandment, yes, but no one has the same specific call then Paul had.

 

[wolfwint]

When you first accepted Yeshua as your personal Lord and Savior, did you know everything about Him? Even when you read the WORD and prayed for understanding, in the beginning you only knew a small amount of knowledge concerning Yeshua. But as you went to church, Bible study, and continued on your reading and praying, TODAY, you know way more than you used to know.

Every Gift from God is the same way. There are proper ways they should be used. There are proper times when they should be used and not be used. Just because God granted you with a Gift, did not mean you knew it all 100% immediately. Sometimes, a smart person will observe others in the same Gift, or your Pastor might preach when the proper times are when you should use these Gifts. But all along, you are learning more and more about your Gift.

Paul set up churches, hundreds would be saved.
Did he just forget them and move on?
NO
He wrote them letters how to use their Gifts and how to be a Believer, he wrote about everything he felt they needed to know about God in order for them to be successful. He just did not say, you are saved and now you are on your own and the Holy spirit will help you. He actually began teaching them step by step.
AND
He would send others to those churches to help them.


So, by you saying the Holy Spirit should automatically instruct me in everything about speaking in Tongues, with NO HELP from those who were already speaking in tongues, proves you do not realize that Paul was also teaching them. Which means, God always has those in place to help those in need.

This should be common sense!!

You mean if somebody get the gift of healing ore helping ore doing miracles ore prophecie first need another human beeing for to be trained how to use this gift? You are saying that it is not sufficient to be guided from the Holy Spirit who gives this gift?
The believers in Corinth ( the only church which got this instructions) where in their spiritual stand, like babys. And seemingly missused this gifts for personal purpose.
This was not needed in all the other churches it seems. In the roman church it seems thatvspeaking in tongues played no role. It was not even mentioned in the gift list. And the roman letter really all includes what a christian need to know about christian life. So its really thinkable that speaking in tongues as it is taught today since 1900, was not mentioned with any word.
Of course we need spirituell teacher, but one who is the shepherd of a church must not have automatically the gift to teach them, but has the gift to lead them.
The todays view of a Pastor was not the view as it was taught in Pauls time.

 

[Wansvic]

You know whats awesome?

Unlike in the OT, Gods people today do not have to pursue this, It is given to them the day they come to Christ. I for one praise God for this. And for the fact I KNBOW God the HS has been working in me and on me since day one.

It is one of the many promises God gives to all who believe. Not wure why you would want to pursue something you were supposed to receive at salvation?

Paul's comment indicates that one does not automatically receive the Holy Ghost upon belief:

"He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost." Acts 19:2

There would be no need for Paul to ask the question if he believed the infilling of the Holy Ghost took place at the moment one believed.

 

[wolfwint]

Paul's comment indicates that one does not automatically receive the Holy Ghost upon belief:

"He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost." Acts 19:2

There would be no need for Paul to ask the question if he believed the infilling of the Holy Ghost took place at the moment one believed.

Then you should consider to whom Paul spoke! You cant say that thiese believers stand for all people which heres the Gospel!
But if you take all scripture according it fits on your view then you must not wonder if you come to false conclusions.

 

[Wansvic]

Then you should consider to whom Paul spoke! You cant say that thiese believers stand for all people which heres the Gospel!
But if you take all scripture according it fits on your view then you must not wonder if you come to false conclusions.

Regardless of who Paul was speaking to, the fact is that he makes a distinction between believing in the gospel and receiving the Holy Ghost.
Again, if Paul knew people received the Holy Ghost when they first believed he would not have asked the question.

Beings he asked the question we know that the Holy Ghost is not poured upon people at the time they believe the gospel message; it is a separate occurrence.

 

[Wansvic]

No mockery of any kind, this is a discussion on tongues. I've challenged various posters misrepresentation of many verses, the mixing and matching scripture, ignoring context, audience relevance and time frames.

I see you are doing a similar thing in your statement "The NT repeatedly commands us to "pray in the Spirit".

Looking at the context we can see you not understanding and misusing scripture:

(1 Cor 14:14-16 If I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unproductive.

What should I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind. I will sing praises with my spirit, but I will also sing praises with my mind.

Otherwise, if you are praising God with your spirit, how can someone without the gift say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying)

Mishandling scripture does not help your claim.

Sadly, the mishandling of scripture arises when individuals such as yourself do not know to make a distinction between the types of tongues Paul is addressing in particular scripture verses.

You are missing the fact that there are personal tongues for one's spirit edification, and the Spiritual Gift of Tongues for the edification of a church body.

As Paul says he prays and sings with his spirit in a language man does not understand. If he does this in the midst of a church gathering no one will understand and thus it is not profitable to anyone but he. However, if Paul operates in the spiritual gift of tongues and there is an interpreter in the church than the entire church is edified by the message given through the operation of these gifts.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Paul's comment indicates that one does not automatically receive the Holy Ghost upon belief:

"He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost." Acts 19:2

There would be no need for Paul to ask the question if he believed the infilling of the Holy Ghost took place at the moment one believed.

Lol.. That assumes they believe in the gospel in the first place

The fact they have not even heard of a holy ghost shows they probably have not heard the gospel in its true form.

 

[wolfwint]

Regardless of who Paul was speaking to, the fact is that he makes a distinction between believing in the gospel and receiving the Holy Ghost.
Again, if Paul knew people received the Holy Ghost when they first believed he would not have asked the question.

Beings he asked the question we know that the Holy Ghost is not poured upon people at the time they believe the gospel message; it is a separate occurrence.

No, if this text (acts 19) was written down for to show the disciples of John the baptist ( who know only his message and got waterbaptised) that they need the Holy Spirit who was come for everybody, then you cant use this text for to support your view.
I mean you can, but your conclusion is wrong.

 

[obedienttogod]

This vers is not saying that this is the same. This vers is speaking about speaking in tongues and not about praying in the Spirit.

Look at the end of that verse. It's clear that the mysteries of the unknown Tongue that man cannot understand, but God can, is done in the Spirit.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

To First Part. This is what Madhermit said in bis Post ( before 62)
To 2nd part: if it is a Gift from the Holy Spirit, there is no Need of Guidance through a Pastor.

honestly, a first year Bible class would know better

if no one needs instruction, then let us redact all that Paul had to say because that man, that man, was ALWAYS giving instruction

the one who listens may hear and the one who hears may understand and the one who understands becomes wise and wisdom takes instruction

remarkable

but alas

it seems wisdom cries out in the streets for so many

perhaps those are the streets our Christ walks to choose those who are His

His words do not return empty to Him and He tosses them like seeds into the ground of the human heart

listen

do you hear?

ps...don't even try to answer. there is actually no question. it was all rhetorical.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

however I know the temptation is beyond the ability to refrain

the wind blows where it will