Not By Works

[Macabeus]

I already did for GB9. But I will put it up again for you

 

[Macabeus]

I think you are stretching the intent of the parable, the son of man reached maturity before sowing the seed.

The parables are not technical manuals for the kingdom .

How long ago?

Before I post the link to the quote, please answer the following two questions...

Can a new Christian bear fruit, say by sharing a testimony that God uses to convert others? Yes or no?

and would this be bearing fruit?

The parables are not technical manuals for the kingdom .

Tell that to DC and GB9 who use them to teach it takes a period of growth and maturity to bear ANYTHING.

 

[azamzimtoti]

And your feeling is about as wrong as a feeling can get.
WOW! I hope you don't read things into the Bible like you read things into people's statements.

How so?

 

[UnderGrace]

How long ago?

Before I post the link to the quote, please answer the following two questions...

Can a new Christian bear fruit, say by sharing a testimony that God uses to convert others? Yes or no?

and would this be bearing fruit?

A Christian can bear fruit the next day or a christian can bear fruit 50 years later, why is this even an argument?

 

[Macabeus]

How so?

By your quote about tares in the church. That came out of nowhere.

Will you please answer the two questions in post 97,442? And I will present DC's original comment.

 

[azamzimtoti]

How long ago?

Before I post the link to the quote, please answer the following two questions...

Can a new Christian bear fruit, say by sharing a testimony that God uses to convert others? Yes or no?

and would this be bearing fruit?

Yes in regards to sharing the gospel it would be considered "fruit", but there is more than just this. You have zeroed in one part of a Christian life which is unfortunate.

 

[azamzimtoti]

A Christian can bear fruit the next day or a christian can bear fruit 50 years later, why is this even an argument?

Maybe using the fruit file to sharpen his axe.

 

[Macabeus]

A Christian can bear fruit the next day or a christian can bear fruit 50 years later, why is this even an argument?

So one day qualifies as a period of growth and maturity? Because DC said it takes a period of growth and maturity to bear fruit.

If that is all the growth and maturity DC meant, then I am OK with the statement.

But I dont think that is what he meant.

 

[Macabeus]

Yes in regards to sharing the gospel it would be considered "fruit", but there is more than just this. You have zeroed in one part of a Christian life which is unfortunate.

No, I am saying that DC said it takes a period of growth and maturity to bear ANYTHING. This statement excludes that one part of Christian life that we are talking about as well as the others.

 

[Macabeus]

dcontroversal, post: 3846459, member: 183444"]So what.......you have still proved nothing except in your mind.......and I will say it again.....

1. A person can be saved for years without bearing fruit....<--the bible and nature teaches this truth
2. At what point does one stop being a son by birth...NEVER
3. Works are the result of the gift of faith and salvation....<----a period of growth and maturity is required before one bears anything

Second clause of point 3

 

[Macabeus]

A Christian can bear fruit the next day or a christian can bear fruit 50 years later, why is this even an argument?

Why don't you ask DC. see post 97,450. And I have been called numerous names for disagreeing with this statement "a period of growth and maturity is required before one bears anything ". Even if I am wrong, is this statement so essential that I need to be called names for disagreeing with it?

 

[azamzimtoti]

dcontroversal, post: 3846459, member: 183444"]So what.......you have still proved nothing except in your mind.......and I will say it again.....

1. A person can be saved for years without bearing fruit....<--the bible and nature teaches this truth
2. At what point does one stop being a son by birth...NEVER
3. Works are the result of the gift of faith and salvation....<----a period of growth and maturity is required before one bears anything

Get your facts straight...you are looking like a fool......

"1. A person can be saved for years without bearing fruit....<--the bible and nature teaches this truth "

This is a possibility.

"2. At what point does one stop being a son by birth...NEVER"

I would agree with this.

"3. Works are the result of the gift of faith and salvation....<----a period of growth and maturity is required before one bears anything"

I would disagree here:

Edited to add "a period of growth and maturity is required before one bears anything"

 

[Macabeus]

"

"3. Works are the result of the gift of faith and salvation....<----a period of growth and maturity is required before one bears anything"

I would disagree here.

Of course. Because it (the second half of the sentence) is unbiblical. Thank you for the discussion. God bless.

 

[Macabeus]

A Christian can bear fruit the next day or a christian can bear fruit 50 years later, why is this even an argument?

Because I was repeatedly attacked for disagreeing with him. Read the posts around that time.

 

[azamzimtoti]

This was a long slog. Now I'm going to have to rest

 

[Macabeus]

Why is it an issue, Under Grace? Here are two reasons out of many...these are the types of things he said to me when I disagreed with him. Completely unchristlike behaviour.

Yep, your rejection of truth........and your dishonesty with the facts.....keep trying though...the more you are dishonest...the more people can see your true character..

Nothing you say has value.....you cannot be honest about the facts and are embellishing what we say to prove a moot point....what I said is valid....I could care less if you don't like it or believe it....

Peter was saved, immersed and walked with JESUS 3 years, walked on water , raised the dead, healed the sick and JESUS rebuked him and said WHEN YOU ARE CONVERTED Strengthen the brethern.....

So....get honest or simply do not address me........last chance pal

And false accusations. I never embellished what he said on the fruit issue. As you can see, I was quoting exactly what he said. What can you say about a person who does this? And he has done it in all of his responses to me.

 

[Macabeus]

This was a long slog. Now I'm going to have to rest

Sorry to put you through that. You are the FIRST person who originally was disagreeing with me that at least heard me out. Everyone else just throws strawman, misrepresentations, false accusations, etc. Anyone who reads my posts and then reads their responses should be able to see that. But they make it difficult, because they twist words and change the meaning of what I say.

 

[Macabeus]

A Christian can bear fruit the next day or a christian can bear fruit 50 years later,

Exactly what I have been saying...

 

[Macabeus]

Maybe using the fruit file to sharpen his axe.

I am not using an axe other than to try to cut down a jungle of lies, misrepresentations, and ad hominems. Not working, but that's not everything.

 

[azamzimtoti]

I am not using an axe other than to try to cut down a jungle of lies, misrepresentations, and ad hominems. Not working, but that's not everything.

Well, at least it was a respite from FHSteps and argueless.