Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit

[7seasrekeyed]

I totally agree about not judging a person's heart. I do believe in looking at the evidence and the 'spirit' that accompanies the words

IMO, if it walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck , it probably is not something else

we are also told to mark those who cause division and to pretty much not invite them for dinner

so probably best to stay with birds of the same feather when baring your heart and speaking of things that should not be blasphemed in order to protect those who just don't know any better

so scripture is best and leave the pearls intact

I would never dare judge one for this for the fear it could give. But, confront with truth we must and leave the results to the Lord.

ps...I should add questions...GENUINE questions...are a different matter. it's the mocking and determination to be right at all costs and becoming angry and belligerent that are to be avoided

 

[mailmandan]

The "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" is mentioned in Mark 3:22-30 and Matthew 12:22-32. This case of blasphemy is called "the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" in Matthew 12:31. In Matthew 12:31-32, the Pharisees (who were not Christians), having witnessed irrefutable proof that Jesus was working miracles in the power of the Holy Spirit, claimed instead that the Lord was possessed by the demon "Beelzebub" (Matthew 12:24). Notice in Mark 3:30 that Jesus is very specific about what they did to commit "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit." These Pharisees were obviously not believers to commit such a sin. That specific type of blasphemy against the Spirit cannot be duplicated today. No one can witness Jesus Christ on earth performing a miracle and then attribute that power to Satan instead of the Spirit God. The sin that is unpardonable is the state of continued unbelief.

 

[notuptome]

Some are still searching for a club with which to bludgeon others into submission.

My only suggestion is that all strive to exercise righteousness and grace toward others. Show forth Christ by living in the word of God and being genuinely broken for unrepentant sinners who reject the Gospel.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[azamzimtoti]

who mentioned tongues?

the op said 'gifts'

Tongues is one of the gifts that ceased, Rick himself brought over the blasphemy thing from a "tongues" thread.

Just to get a measure on the blaspheme thing, I started a poll.... https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/blaspheme-of-the-holy-spirit.184328/

Now I doubt if anybody saw someone jump out of a wheel on a valid healing by a brother they be unlikely to shout out "demon", "demonic".

 

[RickyZ]

No. If a believer or a unbeliever says it, that is irrelevant. A unbeliever can still be forgiven if he/she turns to Christ.

But then what does unforgivable mean, if it can be forgiven?

 

[RickyZ]

The only way this could be answered is if we conclude that all things not of God are demonic.

A valid point... some are of the flesh. But the flesh is fallen because of demonic activity. Is it fair then to trace all unGodly things to satan and his minions, even if they are not providing temptations at a particular incident?

 

[RickyZ]

I think the blasphemy would be speaking that Jesus Himself was not God. They said He was possessed by Devils.

Today there aren't many yet walking in His shoes.

There's something too about His teaching of binding them first, not as blasphemy, but possibly being untaught. Unteachable? Not sure.

Can't put my finger on it yet, so to speak.

I have heard many say, and I subscribe to it to a point, that this whole blasphemy things intimately rests on the denial of Christ. Said another way, and taken to it's furthest conclusion, the only unforgivable sin is not asking for forgiveness (which you wouldn't do unless you don't believe). But I think that's a pretty broad statement, and doesn't take away from the sin of the specific incidents of spoken attribution to satan.

 

[RickyZ]

I don't think saying someone believes tongues has ceased is in ANY way equal to "Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven".

What were you thinking?

It's not saying gifts have ceased, that's a perfectly valid opinion (albeit wrong )

It's when you say ANY or ALL manifestations are demonic. Sure it's not something most cessationists would say, but there are some here who will say that unabashedly.

 

[RickyZ]

I realize that, the OP was not well thought out.

What might have been a better way to present the question?

 

[RickyZ]

Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and whatever blasphemies they utter, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin’ — for they were saying, ‘He has an unclean spirit. Mark 3: 28-30

And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but the one who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven Luke 12:10

so what would that be?

doing some research, it appears that some denoms believe it is impossible for a Christian to commit this blasphemy as they are convinced within themselves that it only applied to Jesus addressing those who said He did what He did by the power of a demon

this, is of course quite a popular conclusion and these same denoms will tell you that the only unforgivable sin is dying in unbelief.

however, it should be noted that Jesus, for some odd reason that seems to have escaped the popular conclusion, referred the sin of blasphemy to an accusation against the Holy Spirit and not Himself

again, with reference to Luke above, Jesus says that every word spoken against Himself will be forgiven BUT the one who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. so yes, while Jesus has ascended, the Holy Spirit has descended and He is on earth, now, and the recipient of some very choice words that seem to deny His presence and power

blasphemy is attributing the works of the Spirit of God to the devil. context in both references indicate that to be so

my personal conclusion is that I am at a point in life that I believe people will be convinced of what is in their own heart by the very Spirit they either accept or reject

I would also state that if you are worried about it you probably have not committed such a sin

if you attest what is of the Holy Spirit to the devil and or demons, I tend to lean towards believing Jesus when He said not to do that

That's where I stand, I can see it extrapolated to the overall denial of Christ. But again that does not detract or in any other way lessen the individual occurrences where the words cross somebody's lips. (Does typing count as speaking?)

Of course, this then opens the very prickly pandora's box of what about those who claim to be saved but say ALL manifestations of the gifts (or individual gifts) are demonic?

(I would suggest we not try to answer that one as it would result in a big fight. Just let it be something to think about).

 

[RickyZ]

who mentioned tongues?

the op said 'gifts'

And it's not really about the gifts, but how we attribute them.

 

[RickyZ]

The "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" is mentioned in Mark 3:22-30 and Matthew 12:22-32. This case of blasphemy is called "the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" in Matthew 12:31. In Matthew 12:31-32, the Pharisees (who were not Christians), having witnessed irrefutable proof that Jesus was working miracles in the power of the Holy Spirit, claimed instead that the Lord was possessed by the demon "Beelzebub" (Matthew 12:24). Notice in Mark 3:30 that Jesus is very specific about what they did to commit "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit." These Pharisees were obviously not believers to commit such a sin. That specific type of blasphemy against the Spirit cannot be duplicated today. No one can witness Jesus Christ on earth performing a miracle and then attribute that power to Satan instead of the Spirit God. The sin that is unpardonable is the state of continued unbelief.

So then where does John 14 fit into that?

12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

 

[RickyZ]

Just to expand the question, if attributing things of the Holy Spirit to satan is blaspheme, is it also blaspheme to attribute things of satan (or the flesh) to God?

 

[garee]

Blaphemy is accrediting the work of one to another .It is likened to Plagerisim stealing authorship. In a spiritual sence the work of our unseen God in having it in respect to an man seen. Therefore placing a fleshly` man as a mediator between god not seen a man seen as a infallible umpire, a daysman or a Pope. We are to have no gods before our living God not seen. Even Christ when called good master gave glory to the place of the father. Jesus who taught his flesh profits for nothing resisted all that that belonged to the unseen holy place. The father would hide Jesus from men to help us to walk after the Spirit that dwells in us..

A good accurate example of blasphemy, not the most popular because of different prejudges is found with Peter in Mathew 16 .There Peter rebuked the lord of glory powered with the influence of the god of this world, Satan. Peter forbid Jesus of doing the gospel work. This is when he blasphemed the Son of Man ,Jesus as word against the Son of man, which was then forgivable. . Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy and violating the first commandment . Today that would not be possible blasphemy against the unseen one, has no forgiveness to offer.

When the Son of man, Jesus as the visible presence of Christ left, blasphemy against the Son of man ended. The demonstration for us to walk after the unseen things of faith accomplished its good purpose I believe. . Now the only possibility left is the unseen will of God the Holy place our hiding place .If you replace the spirit of salvation with one self, ones chances could by 70 to 80 years sometimes a little longer . I think the Bible quotes as a average 70 yrs as a unknow ? That seems to be the rate of fleshly corruption, our dying found in Psalms . Mankind started out at close to a thousand. Possibly a change in the speed of corruption ? Some say the flood caused a change?

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men Mathew 16: 22-23

Paraphrased; you seek after the things seen the temporal and not after the better things of God not seen, the eternal.

Matthew 12:31-32 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Tongues is one of the gifts that ceased, Rick himself brought over the blasphemy thing from a "tongues" thread.



Now I doubt if anybody saw someone jump out of a wheel on a valid healing by a brother they be unlikely to shout out "demon", "demonic".

tongues are one of the gifts...are not is. they are a manifestation of being filled with the Holy Spirit. or, if you will as scripture actually states in the original language, be ye being filled...kind of like when Paul tells Timothy to stir up the gift in him

but of course you do not understand that and prefer to join in the mockers instead

what is it to you if Rick started a thread that is not about tongues but rather about blaspheming the Spirit of God?

see, you got caught and others got caught thinking they could have another haha mockery of that particular gift in this thread

I doubt you would do anything to save anyone. in fact, if someone sneezed, you would most likely hide somewhere

oh people have shouted out 'demon' and 'satan' when Someone healed a person

that Someone, is JESUS CHRIST the only begotten Son of God

as the verses I posted attest to. do you not read your Bible?

be careful you do not all His works, that He does by His Spirit a demon as some here have done

 

[7seasrekeyed]

That's where I stand, I can see it extrapolated to the overall denial of Christ. But again that does not detract or in any other way lessen the individual occurrences where the words cross somebody's lips. (Does typing count as speaking?)

Of course, this then opens the very prickly pandora's box of what about those who claim to be saved but say ALL manifestations of the gifts (or individual gifts) are demonic?

(I would suggest we not try to answer that one as it would result in a big fight. Just let it be something to think about).

I am of one mind with Stones on that one and I believe, God by His Spirit indicates the same

hearts are the domain of God for judgement, but we are free to judge the spirit in which something is said ... that is actually one of the gifts

there is an obvious reason for that gift as well. Jesus knew the hearts of men and did not fall for their flattery and smooth words...they worshiped Him one day and crucified Him the next

wise as serpents and harmless as doves

 

[azamzimtoti]

What might have been a better way to present the question?

I wouldn't have pitted Jesus against the gifts in the church Ricky. As I said, if someone sees a genuine healing they would not scream "demonic".

When I'm speaking of gifts that I believe have ceased it's in regards to "tongues", prophecy (such as Agabus in Acts).

 

[7seasrekeyed]

yet Jesus was called demonic exactly because He healed

are you refusing to see that?

why would you do that unless you do not actually care for the truth?

perhaps someone else can enlighten you since someone told you to put me on ignore in the other thread

 

[7seasrekeyed]

it's your thread Ricky, but I would not bite on the 'tongues' argument.

the other thread is the worst one I have seen in this forum in the years I have been here and in fact, the WORST with the personal insults and abuse of scripture that I have seen anywhere and I think it should be shut down and in fact, tongues should be a candidate for another topic that needs a rest...like the other topic

 

[azamzimtoti]

perhaps someone else can enlighten you since someone told you to put me on ignore in the other thread

Nobody "told" me to put you on ignore, however, it is a great idea.

Adios.

Edit, that's better.