Showing your faith by your works

[TLC209]

The point is not the specific work of the flesh I used. Do you judge your standing with God, by your current state? It can be smoking, drinking, watching pornography, unbelief, fear, whatever.

If you feel further away from God whenever those works of the flesh happen, but feel closer to God when things are going well, then you need to repent from dead works.

Dead works? Did you hear yourself? Drinking being sexually immoral and the like are not dead works they are sin. Sin is the works of the flesh or the works of the devil. However you want to word it.

And I know you werent saying those were dead works. But according to you being a worker of iniquity is ok if you stand on the faith that you are saved by grace, and not by abstaining from sexual immorality, drunkard parties, and sinful behavior because that would be dead works to abstain from sin.

Are you kidding me? Thats so backwards that it sounds demonic. That would be a doctrine that believes abstaining from sin is anti-Christ because what He did on the cross is all the works needed for salvation and it is finished?

Are you serious bro? Who did you receive this false doctrine from? You mean to tell me you are robed in righteousness while you go sleep with someone elses daughter, wife, fiance, or getting plastered at the bars the devil only sees your halo of righteousness? Give me a break bruh bruh. You are lost if you really believe that.. No lie.

 

[Guojing]

Dead works? Did you hear yourself? Drinking being sexually immoral and the like are not dead works they are sin. Sin is the works of the flesh or the works of the devil. However you want to word it.

And I know you werent saying those were dead works. But according to you being a worker of iniquity is ok if you stand on the faith that you are saved by grace, and not by abstaining from sexual immorality, drunkard parties, and sinful behavior because that would be dead works to abstain from sin.

Are you kidding me? Thats so backwards that it sounds demonic. That would be a doctrine that believes abstaining from sin is anti-Christ because what He did on the cross is all the works needed for salvation and it is finished?

Are you serious bro? Who did you receive this false doctrine from? You mean to tell me you are robed in righteousness while you go sleep with someone elses daughter, wife, fiance, or getting plastered at the bars the devil only sees your halo of righteousness? Give me a break bruh bruh. You are lost if you really believe that.. No lie.

Its a good habit, on forums like these when we are all strangers, to ask questions about someone's viewpoints as you read them, instead of jumping into conclusions. And be cordial, you are talking to real people out there, there is no need to judge people based on what you read on the Internet.

There are horizontal consequences when you sin, you may go to jail, you may end up facing a divorce if you commit adultery. Doing those things are stupid, you also allow Satan an inroad to your life and you may lose your testimony to others.

But yes Christians tend to be repulsed when I tell them that, as far as God is concerned, he still sees us with the robe of righteousness even while we are committing those sins.
Instead of explaining more, let me just use scriptures to give an example of this. The story of the "prophet" Balaam. In Numbers 23

19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

20 Behold, I have received commandment to bless: and he hath blessed; and I cannot reverse it.

21 He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: the Lord his God is with him, and the shout of a king is among them.

22 God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn.

23 Surely there is no enchantment against Jacob, neither is there any divination against Israel: according to this time it shall be said of Jacob and of Israel, What hath God wrought!

What Balaam saw in the mountains when he looked at the encampments of the 12 tribes of Israel was like this

What do you think this reminds you of? In the midst of the camp, the Jews were murmuring and complaining against Moses, there are also the mixed multitudes among them, which were largely responsible for leading the Jews to adopt practices that were contrary to the Law.

Yet, why do you think the Lord Jesus, in the form of the Angel of the Lord, made Balaam proclaim He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel?

 

[TLC209]

Its a good habit, on forums like these when we are all strangers, to ask questions about someone's viewpoints as you read them, instead of jumping into conclusions. And be cordial, you are talking to real people out there, there is no need to judge people based on what you read on the Internet.

There are horizontal consequences when you sin, you may go to jail, you may end up facing a divorce if you commit adultery. Doing those things are stupid, you also allow Satan an inroad to your life and you may lose your testimony to others.

But yes Christians tend to be repulsed when I tell them that, as far as God is concerned, he still sees us with the robe of righteousness even while we are committing those sins.
Instead of explaining more, let me just use scriptures to give an example of this. The story of the "prophet" Balaam. In Numbers 23

19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

20 Behold, I have received commandment to bless: and he hath blessed; and I cannot reverse it.

21 He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: the Lord his God is with him, and the shout of a king is among them.

22 God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn.

23 Surely there is no enchantment against Jacob, neither is there any divination against Israel: according to this time it shall be said of Jacob and of Israel, What hath God wrought!

What Balaam saw in the mountains when he looked at the encampments of the 12 tribes of Israel was like this

What do you think this reminds you of? In the midst of the camp, the Jews were murmuring and complaining against Moses, there are also the mixed multitudes among them, which were largely responsible for leading the Jews to adopt practices that were contrary to the Law.

Yet, why do you think the Lord Jesus, in the form of the Angel of the Lord, made Balaam proclaim He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel?

Bro you didnt answer my initial response to your version of Christianity. Why are you sharing a scripture that has nothing to do with what you are promoting? Speak clearly bro.

Horizontal consequences? Where did you get that from? Ive never read that in scripture.

Good habits to abstain from sin? Bro if you are practicing good habits you can do that with self help motivational videos. Healthy Diets, excersize and the likes of which have nothing to do with Christian principles.

So what im asking you is where did you learn your doctrine of demons. Its madness bro. Online or not, if you live like that based on your belief, why would your description of being a Christian any different than over half of america and how they live? You wish to condone sin and make God your accomplice. But that is just straight wrong. If you believe abstaining from sin goes against the gospel for salvation.

We are to come out from the world and be seperated from the things of this world. You wish to remain and color yourself robed in righteousness while you do it. You cannot do both. You cannot serve God and mammon. Just because Jesus died for our sins does not change who God is. God hates sin.

 

[Guojing]

Bro you didnt answer my initial response to your version of Christianity. Why are you sharing a scripture that has nothing to do with what you are promoting? Speak clearly bro.

We are to come out from the world and be seperated from the things of this world. You wish to remain and color yourself robed in righteousness while you do it. You cannot do both. You cannot serve God and mammon. Just because Jesus died for our sins does not change who God is. God hates sin.

Hmm, if it is still unclear, I am sharing that God still view us as righteous, even when we sin. I used the story of Balaam to illustrate how can that be possible.

Are you disagreeing with my analysis of the Balaam story in the book of Numbers?

I am not saying, because of that, Christians should go ahead and sin. That is a totally different point.

 

[know1]

I would be careful on how you say that.

It represents the "name it claim it" upside theology. Taking away God's understanding.

What it is is, if God gives you the desire of your heart to pray for it he who is of one mind and always does whatsoever His soul pleases He might give it to you if you have not been acting spoiled. He is the mystery giver. . He has no obligation to the new creature, the creature is obligated to Him, he must increase we must decrease.

That would be me. I am of the name it claim it crowd.
If it wasn't preached by Jesus and Paul, I wouldn't believe it. But it is a truth of God and I certainly am not ashamed to say I am one of them who not only believe it, but know it, and because I have experienced it first hand, many times over.
Also known as Word of Faith or WOF, the thing Paul preached. Romans 10:8
We are indeed subject to God, but the words that come out of my mouth are subject to me, for Jesus said, greater is the sender than the one being sent.

 

[noblenut]

the the example of Noah, God told noah it would flood and to build an ark and how to do it, but noah still had to build the ark and do what God commanded, so is is Gods grace to tell noah but Noah's act of faith and works to save him.

 

[TLC209]

Hmm, if it is still unclear, I am sharing that God still view us as righteous, even when we sin. I used the story of Balaam to illustrate how can that be possible.

Are you disagreeing with my analysis of the Balaam story in the book of Numbers?

I am not saying, because of that, Christians should go ahead and sin. That is a totally different point.

No actually you said if we stop ourselves from sinning then we are doing dead works and we must repent. Isnt that what you said friend?

 

[TLC209]

Hmm, if it is still unclear, I am sharing that God still view us as righteous, even when we sin. I used the story of Balaam to illustrate how can that be possible.

Are you disagreeing with my analysis of the Balaam story in the book of Numbers?

I am not saying, because of that, Christians should go ahead and sin. That is a totally different point.

Ezekiel 36:17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.
18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:
19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.
20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the Lord, and are gone forth out of his land.
21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.
22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.
31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.
32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord God, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

God was not happy with how corrupt and unclean Israel had become. He sent Jesus to atone the vileness that Israel committed. Not for their sakes but for the Lords sake. They bore the Holy Fathers name. They were Gods chosen people. And they commited abominations before the Lord.

Numbers 23 that you quoted is talking about the moabites wanting to curse the tribe of Israel when they came out of Egypt. They were scared of them. The Moabites had no clue what they were up against. Moabites were cursed people, they were descendants of Ham I believe.

Regardless Numbers has nothing to do with us being sinners and living in sin and expect to be Holy before the Father. Thats just crazy. Read Ezekiel 18 and see what you think.

 

[Guojing]

No actually you said if we stop ourselves from sinning then we are doing dead works and we must repent. Isnt that what you said friend?

No, for that particular point, if after you do good works, you think God will hear your prayers more than if you are doing bad works, those good works are dead works.

Its the belief you have about the benefits of doing good works that you need to repent from.

 

[Guojing]

Numbers 23 that you quoted is talking about the moabites wanting to curse the tribe of Israel when they came out of Egypt. They were scared of them. The Moabites had no clue what they were up against. Moabites were cursed people, they were descendants of Ham I believe.

Regardless Numbers has nothing to do with us being sinners and living in sin and expect to be Holy before the Father. Thats just crazy. Read Ezekiel 18 and see what you think.

The story of Numbers is simple to me. When Balaam wanted to curse the Jews, he was forced to say what Jesus wanted him to say, that God see no sin among the Jews.

Even though there were all kinds of murmuring and complaining going on in the encampment, which are also considered sins, you have to ask yourself the question, "Why did God still see no sin among them?"

You still insist I am saying, Then let us sin more so that grace will increase, which was not what I am saying.

But I take comfort in the realization that, only when you preach the true message of grace that the Apostle Paul did, then there is a chance that your listeners would misinterpret your message, just as Paul's listeners did.

 

[Guojing]

the the example of Noah, God told noah it would flood and to build an ark and how to do it, but noah still had to build the ark and do what God commanded, so is is Gods grace to tell noah but Noah's act of faith and works to save him.

Nice perspective. Are you also a dispensationalist at heart?

 

[noblenut]

Nice perspective. Are you also a dispensationalist at heart?

not really i tend to look at the bible as a whole and take my views not only from it but my observations of the world

 

[TLC209]

The story of Numbers is simple to me. When Balaam wanted to curse the Jews, he was forced to say what Jesus wanted him to say, that God see no sin among the Jews.

Even though there were all kinds of murmuring and complaining going on in the encampment, which are also considered sins, you have to ask yourself the question, "Why did God still see no sin among them?"

You still insist I am saying, Then let us sin more so that grace will increase, which was not what I am saying.

But I take comfort in the realization that, only when you preach the true message of grace that the Apostle Paul did, then there is a chance that your listeners would misinterpret your message, just as Paul's listeners did.

What Jesus wanted him to say? Jesus is not an angel. The angel of the Lord might have been Michael or Gabriel. But not Jesus. Jesus is the Word of God. Jesus is Lord. He is not the angel of the Lord.

And if you are pleasing God yes it is alot more likely to recieve favor from God. Not the opposite like you are implying. Youre saying that if you are in sin God does not see it and will answer your prayers as if God only sees you robed in righteousness and does not see your sins?

Do you have a relationship with God?

 

[Guojing]

What Jesus wanted him to say? Jesus is not an angel. The angel of the Lord might have been Michael or Gabriel. But not Jesus. Jesus is the Word of God. Jesus is Lord. He is not the angel of the Lord.

And if you are pleasing God yes it is alot more likely to recieve favor from God. Not the opposite like you are implying. Youre saying that if you are in sin God does not see it and will answer your prayers as if God only sees you robed in righteousness and does not see your sins?

Do you have a relationship with God?

I see that you believe God perceived human beings like the way human perceived themselves and others. Okay, if you believe doing good works makes God more likely to bless you with favors, I understand why you would object to my own belief.

By the way, out of curiosity, have you figured out what Balaam saw when he look down at the Jews from the mountaintop, and how it is relevant to us who are in the new covenant?

After I got that revelation, it made me appreciate the first 2 chapters of Numbers so much more, rather than just them being a boring report of census data.

 

[Guojing]

not really i tend to look at the bible as a whole and take my views not only from it but my observations of the world

Your observation of Noah reminds me of the author Conelius R Stam. His teachings on how the OT saints were also saved by grace thru faith, was very enlightening to me.

 

[obedienttogod]

When you see someone hungry, don't you feed them?
When you see someone in need, don't you help them?
When you see someone naked and cold, don't you give them clothing?


This Compassion and Love for Your fellow human being.

I absolutely do not see how giving someone food, shelter, clothing, a Bible and telling them that God Loves them, as WORK!!

Some of you seem to be tryna watching your rewards grow

Shame on YOU!!

 

[garee]

That would be me. I am of the name it claim it crowd.
If it wasn't preached by Jesus and Paul, I wouldn't believe it. But it is a truth of God and I certainly am not ashamed to say I am one of them who not only believe it, but know it, and because I have experienced it first hand, many times over.
Also known as Word of Faith or WOF, the thing Paul preached. Romans 10:8
We are indeed subject to God, but the words that come out of my mouth are subject to me, for Jesus said, greater is the sender than the one being sent.

I don't think Christ said ask for whatever you want as if things your desire were loosened from you as they loosed from heaven and it will be bound on earth. The word that come from your mouth is not the word of God .Its his will that is loosed on earth inspired from heaven. It would seem you are turning things upside down

 

[garee]

When you see someone hungry, don't you feed them?
When you see someone in need, don't you help them?
When you see someone naked and cold, don't you give them clothing?


This Compassion and Love for Your fellow human being.

I absolutely do not see how giving someone food, shelter, clothing, a Bible and telling them that God Loves them, as WORK!!

Some of you seem to be tryna watching your rewards grow

Shame on YOU!!

A labor of love is a work .The first works of Love is God is patient. No patience no love. If he does not do the first work of faith his love cannot be kind the second aspect of the work The work grows or matures. Believing God is a work he works in us.

 

[TLC209]

I see that you believe God perceived human beings like the way human perceived themselves and others. Okay, if you believe doing good works makes God more likely to bless you with favors, I understand why you would object to my own belief.

By the way, out of curiosity, have you figured out what Balaam saw when he look down at the Jews from the mountaintop, and how it is relevant to us who are in the new covenant?

After I got that revelation, it made me appreciate the first 2 chapters of Numbers so much more, rather than just them being a boring report of census data.

Bro you didnt answer my question. So I will assume you do not have a relationship with Jesus. And for your question about what balaam saw? Im not interested in what Balaam saw. I dont know Balaam.

God shows who He is thru scripture. He is a loving God and a merciful God but He is also very firm. We cannot play with God. So no I do not see God as how human percieve humans. God is an all consuming fire. He is not someone you play with. You seem to have only an idea of God your own understanding. There is only one God, the Living God and He is not how you describe Him.

What about establishing a relationship with God? Have you tried that? You talk alot about works and I never even talk about works in my daily life or when I talk to people about God. Its a change of heart not works. The bible clearly tells us what sin is. But God changes our hearts to want to do whats good. I dont consider that work. Only for someone who is not a Christian would see it as work.

 

[TLC209]

Your observation of Noah reminds me of the author Conelius R Stam. His teachings on how the OT saints were also saved by grace thru faith, was very enlightening to me.

Acts 8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

You can believe, you can be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, and you can claim to be a Christian and study the scriptures. But if your heart is not right, you are not right in the sight of God. He will only see your sins. It is a repentant heart and a humble heart that He will incline to.

I know you showed me scriptures as to how one becomes saved and you have shown yourself studied in the word, and I agree with the verses as to how someone can be saved. But none of that matters if you are not approved by God. God knows and sees everything. If Peter who is a human was able to discern Simon's heart was wicked, even though Simon was a "believer" Peter cursed Simon. How much more can God see all things including a persons heart. Do not deceive yourself brotha. He does not merely see righteousness. Only God is righteous. There is only One God.