Salvation by our good works
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After Jesus paid for the sins of God's elect, God looks upon us as holy and without blame, as far as our eternal destination is concerned. Our eternal salvation is secure and we will live in heaven. We, however, because of the sin of Adam, do carry the baggage of our sinful nature until we are changed in the twinkling of the eye when Jesus returns to take us to heaven. Paul, in Galatians 5, says that even though we have been born again, we still do have a warfare within us of the Spirit against our sinful fleshly nature and when we yield to lust after the things of the world, we must repent to regain our fellowship back with God.
Once we are sealed, after we have already been born of the Spirit and believe, We do at times lust after the things of the world and separate ourselves from our fellowship with God until we repent. Paul explains this in Galatians 5. The seal is just signifying that it is an earnest (down payment) of the promise of our eternal inheritance. I don't think that I agreed that sin could not penetrate us, read the 5th chapter of Galatians.
O
IF, and I say this lightly since I've read several of your views towards scripture meaning. But IF you were correct in your assessment towards what you are trying to shove up all of us here, you would not be struggling to convince anyone of us you are so correct. You would be teaching those in actual need.
But, since I do know that you are incorrect. IF you were on a platform spewing your forked views, I'd be willing to bet the majority of all believers would run you out of town for not having a CLUE!!
You were never good enough to be in His Presence to begin with.
But He led you to Christ EVEN WHEN YOU WERE AN ENEMY.
Much more then, being justified by the blood of Christ, you now have a way to come to God and not be destroyed by His Wrath against Sin.
God doesn't forsake us when we sin. Otherwise, there would have been no way to save us to begin with. And since He did save us why would He just let us fall back away because of sin? It would have been better to not have seen Salvation and not have tasted of the Heavenly Gifts then to have been saved and then lose fellowship with God because of some imaginary rule you made up.
I will NEVER leave you NOR Forsake you.
Those are strong words. I believe that He meant every "jot and tittle".
Something totally un-related but it just occurred to me that there aren't any jots and tittles in the spoken word. Only in the written word. I'll have to try and remember that. Do you think it is the Holy Spirit that brings things like this to our attention?
But He led you to Christ EVEN WHEN YOU WERE AN ENEMY.
Much more then, being justified by the blood of Christ, you now have a way to come to God and not be destroyed by His Wrath against Sin.
God doesn't forsake us when we sin. Otherwise, there would have been no way to save us to begin with. And since He did save us why would He just let us fall back away because of sin? It would have been better to not have seen Salvation and not have tasted of the Heavenly Gifts then to have been saved and then lose fellowship with God because of some imaginary rule you made up.
I will NEVER leave you NOR Forsake you.
Those are strong words. I believe that He meant every "jot and tittle".
Something totally un-related but it just occurred to me that there aren't any jots and tittles in the spoken word. Only in the written word. I'll have to try and remember that. Do you think it is the Holy Spirit that brings things like this to our attention?
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I believe that you, along with many like you, have a misconception of what the purpose is of the inspired word of God.. It is not instructions for us to go about preaching that people must do certain things to have eternal life. All of those that Christ died for on the cross are going to heaven, there eternal salvation (deliverance) is secure (John 6:38). The inspired words of God are instructions from God to his elect on how he wants them to live their lives while they are here on earth. Jesus instructed the apostles to go and preach to "the lost SHEEP (God's elect) of the house of Israel (Jacob's house - God changed Jacob's name to be called Israel) There are many of God's elect that are lost from a lack of knowledge of the whole truth of the gospel.
You were never good enough to be in His Presence to begin with.
But He led you to Christ EVEN WHEN YOU WERE AN ENEMY.
Much more then, being justified by the blood of Christ, you now have a way to come to God and not be destroyed by His Wrath against Sin.
God doesn't forsake us when we sin. Otherwise, there would have been no way to save us to begin with. And since He did save us why would He just let us fall back away because of sin? It would have been better to not have seen Salvation and not have tasted of the Heavenly Gifts then to have been saved and then lose fellowship with God because of some imaginary rule you made up.
I will NEVER leave you NOR Forsake you.
Those are strong words. I believe that He meant every "jot and tittle".
Something totally un-related but it just occurred to me that there aren't any jots and tittles in the spoken word. Only in the written word. I'll have to try and remember that. Do you think it is the Holy Spirit that brings things like this to our attention?
But He led you to Christ EVEN WHEN YOU WERE AN ENEMY.
Much more then, being justified by the blood of Christ, you now have a way to come to God and not be destroyed by His Wrath against Sin.
God doesn't forsake us when we sin. Otherwise, there would have been no way to save us to begin with. And since He did save us why would He just let us fall back away because of sin? It would have been better to not have seen Salvation and not have tasted of the Heavenly Gifts then to have been saved and then lose fellowship with God because of some imaginary rule you made up.
I will NEVER leave you NOR Forsake you.
Those are strong words. I believe that He meant every "jot and tittle".
Something totally un-related but it just occurred to me that there aren't any jots and tittles in the spoken word. Only in the written word. I'll have to try and remember that. Do you think it is the Holy Spirit that brings things like this to our attention?
O
You really do talk in a circular point of view. And then you add words to my mouth so you can claim I am making a false statement. You are a classic narcissist. NOWHERE, have I ever made it seem you can work and earn your salvation. The second sentence makes it appear that somewhere in our back n forth tirade, that I idiotically gave the impression "we must do certain things."
Like I said in the other thread of yours, you are CLUELESS and a waste of time. When you begin projecting onto me, it means you don't even know what I am saying. But in order to keep hammering me, you add things that I never stated. So, not only are you a LIAR, but a manipulator trying to set me up with your false assumptions.
You are seriously a WASTE OF MY TIME!!
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Hi, I would suggest that scripture calls us gods as those made in the likeness of God, not seen. Just like the fallen angels as well as those who did not leave the first place of habitation., sons of God as gods .. Jesus was accused of blasphemy because he spoke the truth of gods .
Mark 2 King James Version (KJV)And again he entered into Capernaum after some days; and it was noised that he was in the house.
And straightway many were gathered together, insomuch that there was no room to receive them, no, not so much as about the door: and he preached the word unto them. And they come unto him, bringing one sick of the palsy, which was borne of four.And when they could not come nigh unto him for the press, they uncovered the roof where he was: and when they had broken it up, they let down the bed wherein the sick of the palsy lay. When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. But there was certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only? And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts? Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?
Sick of the palsy used three times .There Christ used a object lesson to express the invisible working of faith using palsy lame as a metaphor to represent the inability to walk by faith, using the literal ailment to represent the spiritual work .
Other times he used other diseases to indicate our inability to know Him unless he does the first works of giving us new ears to hear, new eyes to see, a new heart to believe.. therefore comparing the spiritual understanding from one portion to the spiritual of another.
If I could add another example as to how the word gods is used in that context of Mark 2.
John 10:34-36 King James Version (KJV) Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
In other words there are three fingers pointing back at self.
Yet the same Jesus when called good master knowing it is impossible to serve two masters , as infallible teaching authorities, used the temporal things seen to give us a vision of the eternal not seen. Jesus gave glory to the father not seen, the greater of that work performed by the father and the Son working as one . I think it is ok to recognize men do have a spirit as a gods. But even if born again we have that power in us but would never assume it could be of in any way shape or form.
The first commandment.. "thou shall have no gods before our living God includes" oneself. Only God, our source of Christian faith, not seen is good.
That would seem to indicate that mankind is not working "mixing faith" according to the doctrine of rest in (Hebrew 4) in what they do see or hear. Mixing faith I believe is reasoning with God not seen who makes are heart soft giving us His sabbath rest. You could say as the good ground or foundation, the foundation of faith.
I think that law or princlble of faith is shown below as a not to do. Creates gods in the likeness of man seen Its what outward Jew pertaining to flesh then was seeking afater as the same he looks for today Acts 14:9-14 ( gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.) turning things upside down taking away the understanding of God giving it as a oral tradition of natural uncoverte men . Paul called it blasphemy. Attributing the things of a unseen God to man seen , Therefore the outcome of blasphemy violating the first commandment to have no gods before our living God. Christ Jesus
And there they preached the gospel. And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,Acts 14:9-14
Mark 2 King James Version (KJV)And again he entered into Capernaum after some days; and it was noised that he was in the house.
And straightway many were gathered together, insomuch that there was no room to receive them, no, not so much as about the door: and he preached the word unto them. And they come unto him, bringing one sick of the palsy, which was borne of four.And when they could not come nigh unto him for the press, they uncovered the roof where he was: and when they had broken it up, they let down the bed wherein the sick of the palsy lay. When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. But there was certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only? And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts? Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?
Sick of the palsy used three times .There Christ used a object lesson to express the invisible working of faith using palsy lame as a metaphor to represent the inability to walk by faith, using the literal ailment to represent the spiritual work .
Other times he used other diseases to indicate our inability to know Him unless he does the first works of giving us new ears to hear, new eyes to see, a new heart to believe.. therefore comparing the spiritual understanding from one portion to the spiritual of another.
If I could add another example as to how the word gods is used in that context of Mark 2.
John 10:34-36 King James Version (KJV) Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
In other words there are three fingers pointing back at self.
Yet the same Jesus when called good master knowing it is impossible to serve two masters , as infallible teaching authorities, used the temporal things seen to give us a vision of the eternal not seen. Jesus gave glory to the father not seen, the greater of that work performed by the father and the Son working as one . I think it is ok to recognize men do have a spirit as a gods. But even if born again we have that power in us but would never assume it could be of in any way shape or form.
The first commandment.. "thou shall have no gods before our living God includes" oneself. Only God, our source of Christian faith, not seen is good.
That would seem to indicate that mankind is not working "mixing faith" according to the doctrine of rest in (Hebrew 4) in what they do see or hear. Mixing faith I believe is reasoning with God not seen who makes are heart soft giving us His sabbath rest. You could say as the good ground or foundation, the foundation of faith.
I think that law or princlble of faith is shown below as a not to do. Creates gods in the likeness of man seen Its what outward Jew pertaining to flesh then was seeking afater as the same he looks for today Acts 14:9-14 ( gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.) turning things upside down taking away the understanding of God giving it as a oral tradition of natural uncoverte men . Paul called it blasphemy. Attributing the things of a unseen God to man seen , Therefore the outcome of blasphemy violating the first commandment to have no gods before our living God. Christ Jesus
And there they preached the gospel. And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,Acts 14:9-14
If you are included in those that the Father gave to Christ to die for, He died and made payment for your sins on the cross and none of those will have to give up their sin so Christ can make payment for them. Payment was made in full and Jesus said it is finished before you were born into this world by his foreknowledge of knowing that you would be sinful (Psalms 53:2-3).
O
Before the Earth was ever spoken into existence, Yeshua was already every human being to come Savior. He just had not went through the process of becoming our sacrifice yet. But to understand and know this, a human must first believe there is even a God, or in this representation of God known as Yeshua. There are billions of people today who do not know what Yeshua is. There are billions of people today who do not believe there is even a God or a place called Heaven. And still, Yeshua died to be their Savior.
But until those people come to the conclusion and believe that there really is a God and a Savior who died for them, this point trying to be made is mute.
Now, if and once a person does step out in FAITH and believe there is an invisible entity that basically NO ONE can see called God, then we can finally answer your question. And that answer would be, "A person has to believe first that there is a Yeshua," and if they do believe in Him and accept Him as being real and is God, that person then must admit they are a sinner in need of God's Salvation.
Scriptures are clear that people will stand before the Great White Throne Judgment claiming I did this in YOUR NAME, I did that and etc. Then scripture makes it clear that Yeshua will reply, "I NEVER KNEW YOU, depart from me."
So, it's clear we aren't just saved because we believe Yeshua is real and is God. There must be a transformation where this knowledge that God is real now becomes God is my everything including my personal LORD and SAVIOR. And this ONLY HAPPENS at the moment when you are sincere and seek God for His Salvation because you acknowledge you are a lost sinner doomed without Him!!
So clearly, You MUST ACCEPT HIM and believe that HE really is your Lord and Savior in order to have Eternal Promise. Otherwise, you are like those at the Throne of God during Judgment that Yeshua claims to NEVER have known. This is just head knowledge that Yeshua is real, this is not a person really ever saved or accepted Yeshua in that way...and knowing that Yeshua makes this claim to NEVER have known someone, means they never accepted Yeshua as Lord and Savior. And since these are then cast into the Lake of Fire, it proves that YOU MUST SINCERELY BELIEVE AND ACCEPT YESHUA as your personal Lord and Savior to be rewarded with Eternal Salvation!!
O
Yeshua did say, He knows His sheep and His sheep know Him. To become a sheep, you must know who Yeshua really is. And since sheep are helpless, they need someone to watch, care, and save them. So, until you come to the point of being NEEDED TO BE SAVED, you are not yet a sheep. But the moment you are genuinely SAVED, our Shepherd and personal Lord and Savior Yeshua recognizes us as being a part of Him. He knows us because we are His!!
So to get to a place where GOD ACTUALLY KNOWS YOU, is the key to Eternal Salvation. And God refuses to acknowledge you UNTIL YOU BECOME ONE OF HIS SHEEP!!
I want God to know ME because I know God on a personal level!!
That only happens when I sincerely accept Him as God, Shepherd, Lord, Savior, my reason why I breathe, my reason why I am here, my reason for everything in my life.
So, by doing this IS NOT WORKS, but it is FAITH. Which it requires FAITH to believe God is real, to believe you are lost without God, to believe you NEED God, and to then sincerely accept Him as the ONE who forgave you and gave you Eternal Promise.
Those cast into the Lake of Fire are getting rewarded because they tried to EARN AND WORK their way to Heaven which God claims to Never have known them.
But to those who accept Yeshua genuinely as their Lord and Savior and become one of His Sheep, He DOES KNOW YOU and grants you with Eternal Life!!
So to get to a place where GOD ACTUALLY KNOWS YOU, is the key to Eternal Salvation. And God refuses to acknowledge you UNTIL YOU BECOME ONE OF HIS SHEEP!!
I want God to know ME because I know God on a personal level!!
That only happens when I sincerely accept Him as God, Shepherd, Lord, Savior, my reason why I breathe, my reason why I am here, my reason for everything in my life.
So, by doing this IS NOT WORKS, but it is FAITH. Which it requires FAITH to believe God is real, to believe you are lost without God, to believe you NEED God, and to then sincerely accept Him as the ONE who forgave you and gave you Eternal Promise.
Those cast into the Lake of Fire are getting rewarded because they tried to EARN AND WORK their way to Heaven which God claims to Never have known them.
But to those who accept Yeshua genuinely as their Lord and Savior and become one of His Sheep, He DOES KNOW YOU and grants you with Eternal Life!!
Jesus is my moral compass. Discernment drives me to do the will of God; will I fail at times? I already have. Failing does not separate me from the Lord. It is written a righteous man will fall 7 times and get back up. I have also been given sound mind according to scripture. I know right from wrong.
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1 cor 2:14 explains how the natural man, before the transformation, that you mentioned, is, that he cannot discern spiritual things such as a spiritual God or his spiritual laws. The transformation comes as the new birth when God quickens him from being spiritually dead to being spiritually alive. This transformation is explained in Eph 2. The natural man, being spiritually dead will cannot believe and accept Jesus until he has been born again and God has put the Holy Spirit within him, so he is already saved eternally before he believes or accepts Jesus as his savior.