Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
B

BibletruthSOP

Active member
#96,861
Apr 2, 2019
164
27
28
#96,861
UnderGrace said:
Not so, Paul is very clear we do not earn salvation. We cannot put God in our debt.

4Now the wages of the worker are not credited as a gift, but as an obligation. 5However, to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.…

Moreover,

Any exchange of behaviour for receiving eternal life is not the gospel.
Click to expand...
eternally-gratefull said:
Um, You said after we are saved if you sin and do not repent we are lost. So Yes you did say that.

You can deny it all you want,




We repent THEN WE ARE SAVED< we do not KEEP REPENTING. We either repented and God accepts our faith or we are LOST/
Click to expand...

So you repented for future sinning LOL
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#96,862
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#96,862
UnderGrace said:
So our obedience is a gift from God....smh

Our reading and understanding follows scripture not the words of men.
Click to expand...
Macabeus said:
Sure. Have you ever tried to live in obedience in your own strength. Impossible.



Not if you don't think the power to obey is not a gift from God.
Click to expand...
So how did what he said put God in our debt?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#96,864
#96,864
BibletruthSOP said:
Just the opposite. The gospel goal is perfection ( or if that bible word is too harsh, just think victory) and it is Christ who produces this in the believer if the believer allows, or as the bible often says "lets" . Its not a matter of one reaching, its a matter of submitting, and that is also of Christ, if you allow. This no victory, no overcoming in Christ gospel mindset is anathema to the true gospel, which includes total victory over sin, in Christ. What little faith there is that cannot even come to believe that there is victory over sin in Jesus.
Click to expand...
Who taught this to you?
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#96,865
Jan 18, 2011
12,402
6,740
113
#96,865
Macabeus said:
Please provide a post number where I said that.



God forbid anyone should EVER disagree with the mighty DOC.

You keep bringing up the false charge that I said someone has to produce fruit in a certain time frame. And I keep saying what I actually said. That is why DC keeps coming up, because of you. If you would stop making silly false accusations, I would stop bringing up what DOC said.
Click to expand...
thought you said you check back tomorrow.
anyway, how about this- I will say nothing else about judgement, inspection, time if you do not say anything also.

we will draw a line in the sand, and start right here., and drop all those subjects. I will if you will. agree or disagree.
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#96,866
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
113
#96,866
Macabeus said:
2 Corinthians 7:9- Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing

I thought you all followed the scripture, not man's understanding.
Click to expand...
I can see where you are going with this, repentance for salvation is not the same as being sorry for sins we as believers fall into.

I think as Christians we can become obsessed with the "falling into sin" that we end up in unease rather than the peace promised in Christ. I believe we can be harder on ourselves and others when we forget:

(Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will establish with them after those days, says the Lord. I will put my laws on their hearts and I will inscribe them on their minds)

(Heb 10:17 then he says, "Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no longer." )

So I would ask at what point does God not remember?
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#96,867
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#96,867
gb9 said:
thought you said you check back tomorrow.
anyway, how about this- I will say nothing else about judgement, inspection, time if you do not say anything also.

we will draw a line in the sand, and start right here., and drop all those subjects. I will if you will. agree or disagree.
Click to expand...
If no one issues false accusations against me I will agree. If they do and I respond to THEM, feel free to ignore it.
 
B

BibletruthSOP

Active member
#96,868
Apr 2, 2019
164
27
28
#96,868
Macabeus said:
I would say that sin is the failure to keep the two great commandments, Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength and love your neighbor as yourself. All of the Law is comprehended in these.
Click to expand...
Totally agreed, but I do not really know who I am talking to. If I should say sin is not loving God you would agree because you know the ten commandments and you know that the two love commandments Jesus said he took from the old testament scriptures and they were a summation of the 10 commandments. But when I use the term 10 commandments that is understandable by virtually everyone. Even total unbelievers and those who never cracked a bible have heard of thou shalt not steal or thou shalt not kill and have heard those are commandments of God. I know I do not always say things clearly, but I try to use the words and phrases that are most clear to the masses so to speak
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#96,869
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#96,869
azamzimtoti said:
I can see where you are going with this, repentance for salvation is not the same as being sorry for sins we as believers fall into.

I think as Christians we can become obsessed with the "falling into sin" that we end up in unease rather than the peace promised in Christ. I believe we can be harder on ourselves and others when we forget:

(Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will establish with them after those days, says the Lord. I will put my laws on their hearts and I will inscribe them on their minds)

(Heb 10:17 then he says, "Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no longer." )

So I would ask at what point does God not remember?
Click to expand...
The text says they sorrowed UNTO REPENTANCE.

I do not repent and confess to retain my salvation. I do so because I want to have unbroken fellowship with God and I don't want undealt with sin to crop up like weeds. I have no worries about losing my salvation.
 
B

BibletruthSOP

Active member
#96,871
Apr 2, 2019
164
27
28
#96,871
M

Macabeus

Banned
#96,872
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#96,872
BibletruthSOP said:
Totally agreed, but I do not really know who I am talking to. If I should say sin is not loving God you would agree because you know the ten commandments and you know that the two love commandments Jesus said he took from the old testament scriptures and they were a summation of the 10 commandments. But when I use the term 10 commandments that is understandable by virtually everyone. Even total unbelievers and those who never cracked a bible have heard of thou shalt not steal or thou shalt not kill and have heard those are commandments of God. I know I do not always say things clearly, but I try to use the words and phrases that are most clear to the masses so to speak
Click to expand...
The sermon on the mount makes it clear that the STANDARD is much higher than outward observance of the Ten Commandments. You have heard...but I say, Jesus said repeatedly.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#96,873
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#96,873
azamzimtoti said:
I'm not saying it doesn't, I'm saying the repentance was not the repentance unto salvation such as is mentioned by Peter in Acts 11:18.
Click to expand...
Wasn't eternally grateful saying that christians only need to repent once? That is what I was replying to. As I have said many times, I do not believe in multiple regenerations. Only one
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#96,875
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
113
#96,875
Macabeus said:
I do not repent and confess to retain my salvation. I do so because I want to have unbroken fellowship with God and I don't want undealt with sin to crop up like weeds. I have no worries about losing my salvation.
Click to expand...
Where in the new testament is it said that not confessing leads to broken fellowship with God, and the doing so would end up with a crop of weeds?
 
O

oldethennew

Banned
#96,876
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,974
113
#96,876
Macabeus said:
Yes, and these things, like missing the mark, falling short of a standard is what is meant by "we sin more or less every day"

You just proved my earlier argument.

Paul said the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Then he lists a specific set of sins. But he also said that he is not perfect and that he still struggles with the flesh. These are two different categories, which you fail to recognize.

One can have a heart of faith and struggle with the flesh. That is not the same thing as saying one can have a heart of faith and walk in darkness and sin (see 1 John 1:5 and 1 John 3 as well as 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 and Revelation 21:8

AND as I said, one is not saved or unsaved based on how many sins they commit or don't commit. One is saved based on faith. But a heart of faith, while it may struggle with the flesh, is not in open rebellion against God. Two different categories.

Unbalanced theology you have.
Click to expand...
==========================================================
the definition of a real-sinner', is not one that struggles with it or sins accidently,
but one that (deliberately) sins and tries to bring others along to participate...

please, don't let 'human-doctrine' define Spiritual Reality'...
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#96,877
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#96,877
Macabeus said:
Wasn't eternally grateful saying that christians only need to repent once? That is what I was replying to. As I have said many times, I do not believe in multiple regenerations. Only one
Click to expand...
this is what I was replying to when I posted 2 Corinthians 7:9

post 96,861- We repent THEN WE ARE SAVED< we do not KEEP REPENTING. We either repented and God accepts our faith or we are LOST/
Click to expand...
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#96,879
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
113
#96,879
Macabeus said:
Wasn't eternally grateful saying that christians only need to repent once?
Click to expand...
I don't know, this thread is thousands of posts long. The context where he said that would be needed. Possibly it was said in regards to the loss of salvation issue.

So if he believes in OSAS, then only one repentance is needed to be saved.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#96,880
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#96,880
oldethennew said:
==========================================================
the definition of a real-sinner', is not one that struggles with it or sins accidently,
but one that (deliberately) sins and tries to bring others along to participate...

please, don't let 'human-doctrine' define Spiritual Reality'...
Click to expand...
It's not about defining real sinner. It's about the fact that a heart of faith may be imperfect, but it is not under the dominion of sin. My posts are in agreement with scripture. We are saved by faith. A faithful heart is not perfect, it is not yet reached the STANDARD, which is the FINISHED WORK OF BEING CONFORMED ENTIRELY TO CHRIST'S IMAGE, which occurs at His Second advent, yet at the same time a faithful, regenerate heart is not under the Law but under Grace, therefore SIN HAS NO DOMINION OVER IT.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.