A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

[UnderGrace]

true

that was my conclusion also

Exactly!!

Please provide evidence/proof of the biblical gift of languages.

I will be waiting.

 

[UnderGrace]

sorry (not sorry)

but that is the argument of kavik who is not a believer. you were in accord with him and yet you persist in asking questions as though you were genuinely wanting to learn or interested

apparently you do not comprehend that the Bible itself reveals that the understanding is derived by the Holy Spirit and not a test lab

but as you have already pointed out, these things bore you

Objective reality is not based on the status of the person as saved or not saved.

 

[UnderGrace]

I am sure you know this, but kaylagrl falsely accuses me of being enraged, and I have never remotely come close to being that. Here are her exact words: But VCO is just enraged at anyone who disagrees. I am 70 years of age, and that is just too old to let another poster get under my skin, LOL. The only emotion her false theology causes in me, is it is just SAD. I am sorry that she gets so upset, but I must stand by what I see is the truth.

Sad indeed.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Exactly!!

Please provide evidence/proof of the biblical gift of languages.

I will be waiting.

I see you have taken over where your good friend left off

tired of the mockery and the duplicity

please go play with someone not versed in what you do

 

[VCO]

Mr. Dino are you anti-science?

I AM, because I believe the Bible. GOD CREATED. NOT EVOLUTION.

Science is a Religion of No GOD did not CREATE.

Most Scientist want to think it was a BIG BALL THAT EXPLODED. LOL

Want to see how they squirm, when you ask where did the BIG BALL COME FROM.

Actually, Scientific Theory dictates that the STARTING POINT, has to at or near ZERO.

Biblical Creation, say it has to be where JESUS the CREATOR said the STARTING POINT is where HE wanted it to be.

So yes, I am Anti-Science.



Romans 1:18-22 (NKJV)
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,

 

[UnderGrace]

Mr. VCO, the question was not directed towards you however good to know.

Since you are anti-science though, I assume you refuse medical treatment.

Just curious.

I AM, because I believe the Bible. GOD CREATED. NOT EVOLUTION.

Science is a Religion of No GOD did not CREATE.

Most Scientist want to think it was a BIG BALL THAT EXPLODED. LOL

Want to see how they squirm, when you ask where did the BIG BALL COME FROM.

Actually, Scientific Theory dictates that the STARTING POINT, has to at or near ZERO.

Biblical Creation, say it has to be where JESUS the CREATOR said the STARTING POINT is where HE wanted it to be.

So yes, I am Anti-Science.



Romans 1:18-22 (NKJV)
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,

 

[UnderGrace]

I see you have taken over where your good friend left off

tired of the mockery and the duplicity

please go play with someone not versed in what you do

You take this thread far too seriously.

 

[Dino246]

Actually they are the only people (people who study linguistics, neuroscience and language) that can make that determination, if they had been around at the turn of the century when this phenom first occurred in the USA, things may be different now.

Science can inform us when a physical body has died, it is the same for language.

I respectfully disagree. People can only determine within a certain set of parameters. God is not limited by those parameters. Further, "meets the human test for 'language'" is not a biblical parameter for testing whether the speech is genuine.

 

[UnderGrace]

I see you have taken over where your good friend left off

tired of the mockery and the duplicity

please go play with someone not versed in what you do

fyi...you are now on ignore

 

[UnderGrace]

I respectfully disagree. People can only determine within a certain set of parameters. God is not limited by those parameters.

Yes I agree God is not limited. Yet God did create language correct?

 

[Dino246]

Yes I agree God is not limited. Yet God did create language correct?

Yes, He created the languages that are used by His created beings, though humans have adjusted their languages over the centuries.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You take this thread far too seriously.

It is sad that people have to keep showing me post she makes mocking me. It’s all good. Best to just consider the source.

She is angry because I refused back down which someone. I think people who see our posts to others who believe as she does proves she just has a vendetta because what she claims as usual is not true

Best to just ignore or if you have to just let the powers to be know

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes I agree God is not limited. Yet God did create language correct?

Amen

Language should be no different in the physical or spiritual world. It is speaking word which actually mean things in a way to communicate with another

 

[UnderGrace]

I respectfully disagree. People can only determine within a certain set of parameters. God is not limited by those parameters. Further, "meets the human test for 'language'" is not a biblical parameter for testing whether the speech is genuine.

Mr. Dino, what is the parameter then for testing if language is a language if it cannot be tested from science?

Can you tell me why if the tongues of angels as a language unique and apart from all the other known languages
one would expect "glossolalists" to reproduce significantly fewer phonemes from his or her native language, however this is not the case. In other words why do people use the phonemes and syllables of their native tongue each and every time.

How do we test if it is spiritual?
Is holy laughter spiritual?

 

[UnderGrace]

Amen

Language should be no different in the physical or spiritual world. It is speaking word which actually mean things in a way to communicate with another

Exactly, that is the function of language at its core and there is no need for it to be mysterious or over-spiritualized.

The purpose of the gift was functional in that it bore witness as well as the communicative piece.

 

[Dino246]

Mr. Dino, what is the parameter then for testing if language is a language if it cannot be tested from science?

Why do we "need" to test if it is a "real language"? I don't see any requirement for that in Scripture.

Can you tell me why if the tongues of angels as a language unique and apart from all the other known languages

As I have said before, there simply is not enough information given in Scripture about the "tongues of angels" to make any sort of statement on them.

one would expect "glossolalists" to reproduce significantly fewer phonemes from his or her native language, however this is not the case. In other words why do people use the phonemes and syllables of their native tongue each and every time.

Sorry, "each and every time" requires that all instances of "speaking in tongues" be recorded. If you mean "each and every time they have been recorded", that is a small subset. Any researcher worth her salt will know that making absolute statements about a population from the characteristics of a small subset is foolhardy at best. The margin of uncertainty is enormous.

How do we test if it is spiritual?

By the fruit, as I stated earlier.

Is holy laughter spiritual?

That's a completely separate issue which I won't discuss in this thread.

 

[VCO]

Mr. VCO, the question was not directed towards you however good to know.

Since you are anti-science though, I assume you refuse medical treatment.

Just curious.

Now who would be so FOOLISH to Refuse Medical Treatment ?

He created man with a brain, and expects us to use the Doctors Wisdom to treat the Diseases, Medical Surgery, Blood Transfusions, Etc.

Now you are comparing Apples to Oranges, Wisdom of Doctors is Apples; and so called wisdom of the so called Science of Origins, is a WHOLE DIFFERENT BALL GAME, is the Oranges.

When ever I hear an ambulance I pray for the Patient and the Wisdom of Doctors too.

YES, I am a diabetic, with High Blood Pressure, with High Cholesterol, with a Heart Conditions that cause Strokes. I have had 7 strokes already, two major strokes, and 5 mini strokes. Yes I believe in medications, but sometimes I think I am on too many, but I am not the Doctor.

Now my guess, the LORD is going to call me home with a MAJOR STROKE.

 

[UnderGrace]

Why do we "need" to test if it is a "real language"? I don't see any requirement for that in Scripture.


As I have said before, there simply is not enough information given in Scripture about the "tongues of angels" to make any sort of statement on them.


Sorry, "each and every time" requires that all instances of "speaking in tongues" be recorded. If you mean "each and every time they have been recorded", that is a small subset. Any researcher worth her salt will know that making absolute statements about a population from the characteristics of a small subset is foolhardy at best. The margin of uncertainty is enormous.


By the fruit, as I stated earlier.


That's a completely separate issue which I won't discuss in this thread.

Oh I know all about research and sample size and randomness of the sample, when a large number of "glossolalia" speakers from across the globe have been analyzed this has been the case.

Where did you state about the fruit I must have missed it?

 

[UnderGrace]

Now who would be so FOOLISH to Refuse Medical Treatment ?

He created man with a brain, and expects us to use the Doctors Wisdom to treat the Diseases, Medical Surgery, Blood Transfusions, Etc.

Now you are comparing Apples to Oranges, Wisdom of Doctors is Apples; and so called wisdom of the so called Science of Origins, is a WHOLE DIFFERENT BALL GAME, is the Oranges.

When ever I hear an ambulance I pray for the Patient and the Wisdom of Doctors too.

YES, I am a diabetic, with High Blood Pressure, with High Cholesterol, with a Heart Conditions that cause strokes. I have had 7 strokes already, two major strokes, and 5 mini strokes. Yes I believe in medications, but sometimes I think I am on too many, but I am not the Doctor.

Well there is factual, good, sound science then agreed .... we need to remember that,
I believe it applies to the study of glossolalia

 

[VCO]

It is sad that people have to keep showing me post she makes mocking me. It’s all good. Best to just consider the source.

She is angry because I refused back down which someone. I think people who see our posts to others who believe as she does proves she just has a vendetta because what she claims as usual is not true

Best to just ignore or if you have to just let the powers to be know

I know, it is far too typical of the movement.