what happens next millenium or new earth?

[delirious]

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

All Christians who have died after 70 A.D. immediately enter heaven. There is no sleeping anymore.

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The same seventh trumpet in Rev 11 that refers to the falling of Jerusalem and the old heavens and earth. We see the resurrection described in the last trumpet of Rev 11: 15-19. That is the last trumpet of 1 Cor 15: 52.

53 For THIS corruptible must put on incorruption [this is "the dead in Christ"], and THIS mortal must put on immortality [this is the "we which are ALIVE and remain unto"].
54 So when THIS corruptible ["the dead in Christ"] shall have put on incorruption, and THIS mortal [the "we which are ALIVE and remain unto"] shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

What does Romans 5 say? Death reigned through Adam. Life comes through Christ. The corruptible putting on incorruption is the transition from the old covenant/fallen Adamic world to the new covenant/Christ's kingdom world. It is the passing away of the old heavens and earth and the beginning of the new heavens and earth, Christ's kingdom. Passing from corruption to incorruption is covenantal and corporate language.

Christ brought His kingdom with Him in 70 A.D. as Matt 22: 1-14 and Luke 21: 31 and many other passages say. Rev 21, which describes the new heavens and earth does not describe a re-made universe. It describes the church and Christ as its light.

Death was swallowed up in that moment. Spiritual death, not physical death, when the OT and 1st century saints were raised. This is not a transformation of physical bodies.

 

[delirious]

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon [with our glorified bodies, APART from having to DIE FIRST] with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked [that is, being "absent from the body" for a time, UPON our DEATH].
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed [same as bracketed insert in verse 3], but clothed upon [same as bracketed insert in v.2], that mortality [the "we which are ALIVE and remain unto..."] might be swallowed up OF LIFE. [this is speaking of when, as STILL-LIVING members of "the Church which is His body" are "changed" APART from having to DIE first; i.e. this occurs at "our Rapture"--a physical/bodily "change"--and the "Rapture" pertains SOLELY to "the Church which is His body," NOT to all other saints of all OTHER time periods: not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not to MK saints]

You are looking for a physical fulfillment like most Christians have for 2,000 years. This is covenantal language. Passing from the old Adamic world into Christ's kingdom.

When OT saints died they were "unclothed" and slept. At least while a person had physical life there was a partial clothing with the Mosaic ordinances and things like that to make a "covering" for sin. When Christ's kingdom came at the fall of Jerusalem spiritual death was swallowed up by His life and kingdom. That is the further clothing Paul longed to experience. Full reconciliation to God. That was accomplished through the cross but not fully realized until Christ returned with His kingdom. Christians don't sleep since 70 A.D. They enter immediately into glory.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Passing from corruption to incorruption is covenantal and corporate language.

[…]
This is not a transformation of physical bodies.

I'm wondering why you deliberately left out "and THIS mortal must put on immortality" (which is distinct from what you'd put above, "THIS corruption must put on incorruption" [<--this part is with regard to "the DEAD IN Christ," but the OTHER ["this mortal"] is with regard to the "we [IN Christ ALSO] which are ALIVE and remain unto..." (i.e. the MORTAL / STILL-LIVING persons at the time specifically spoken of)])

That is the further clothing Paul longed to experience. Full reconciliation to God.

I believe that came well before 70ad. (Col1:22; Rom5:10-11)

 

[delirious]

No. Revelation 1:1 and 22:6 say specifically, "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (not "shortly/quickly" or "soon" which are ADVERBS--and where the adverbs ARE used, it refers to the writings themselves, as I see it). This "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" also involves Lk18:8[chpt17-end] and Rom16:20 (the latter correlating with the 1Cor6:3[14] "we shall judge angels," [not merely "wrestle" ] which occurs when "judgments" are taking place, when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" [Isa3:13; Rev4-5; Lam2:3-4 (LIKE 2Th2:7b-8a)] which I do not believe is or has been taking place yet)

Four different words are used seven times at the beginning and ending of Revelation. Not just "quickly". I noticed you didn't touch the other ones. How about just accepting what the book says instead of coming up with these ridiculous interpretations to try and get around it?

Here is a little made up story for an example:

I sat on the couch watching tv with my brother the other day. I said I was going to "quickly" run to the store. Six hours later I was still sitting there watching tv with him and hadn't moved. He says to me, "I thought you were going to run to the store quickly?" I said to him, "I meant once I start going to the store, it will happen quickly!"

You see how biased and dishonest your interpretation is?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

EDIT to add to my post: Romans 5:11 https://biblehub.com/text/romans/5-11.htm

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Here is a little made up story for an example:

I sat on the couch watching tv with my brother the other day. I said I was going to "quickly" run to the store. Six hours later I was still sitting there watching tv with him and hadn't moved. He says to me, "I thought you were going to run to the store quickly?" I said to him, "I meant once I start going to the store, it will happen quickly!"

You see how biased and dishonest your interpretation is?

Except the little made up story doesn't go like that.

He didn't say I was "going to 'quickly [adverb]' run to the store"... he said, "go to the store IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]," but in saying this (which is a PROPHETIC STATEMENT) he is not saying "when" he is going, just that when he goes, it will be "IN QUICKNESS"; and furthermore, it's not really that he is saying [I will] "go to the store IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]," but more like, once certain things are starting [the 4:1 "FUTURE" aspects of the Book!], so more like saying, "the Thanksgiving Day Macy's Parade will be on tv [and its duration will be] IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" and is NOT meaning that that tv show is going to be ON anytime SOON [adverb], but that WHEN it IS ON, it will be "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (as to how long it will LAST). His brother would be silly to think he meant we should be expecting to eat a Butterball for dinner tonight! The kid is mixed up, as to what the brother actually meant! [in 1:1 and 22:6, which I am pointing out]

 

[delirious]

I'm wondering why you deliberately left out "and THIS mortal must put on immortality" (which is distinct from what you'd put above, "THIS corruption must put on incorruption" [<--this part is with regard to "the DEAD IN Christ," but the OTHER ["this mortal"] is with regard to the "we [IN Christ ALSO] which are ALIVE and remain unto..." (i.e. the MORTAL / STILL-LIVING persons at the time specifically spoken of)])

In verse 54 he says corruption must put on incorruption and this mortal must put on immortality. They are the same thing. It is transferring from the Adamic/Old Covenant world into Christ's Kingdom/New Covenant world.

The being changed "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye" was when Christ returned with His kingdom and the resurrection occurred. At that precise moment, those who were asleep in Christ (the dead) as well as those who were living were "changed".

It was a spiritual transition between the old heavens and earth to the new heavens and earth, Christ's kingdom. In that moment, the dead in Christ entered heaven and the living would not fall asleep at physical death but enter heaven immediately from that point forward.

Death was swallowed up by Life.

 

[Melach]

Well, and out of the 100 reasons why I believe Pre-trib, this ^ is one of the TOP.

This is because we will not be here for "the Day of the Lord [time period]," but "the man of sin" (and ALL he will DO therein [in that 7-yr portion of the entire long "DOTL" time period which also goes on to INCLUDE the entire MK]) WILL be "present" for it! (2Th2:9a "whose COMING/ADVENT/ARRIVAL/PRESENCE/PAROUSIA" [re: 'man of sin'] at the START of it [comp.Dan9:27a[26] "FOR ONE WEEK [7 yrs]".])

"3 that day will not be present if not shall have come THE DEPARTURE *FIRST* [i.e. our Rapture / our episynagoges [noun] UNTO HIM" (the noun-EVENT of v.1!)] AND [a distinct thing-->] the man of sin be revealed" (this SEQUENCE is repeated 3x in the 2Th2:3-8 passage, and is the SAME SEQUENCE as was told of in 1Th4-5)

does it say somewhere that man of sin will be doing his thing in the day of the Lord? if thats the case. that seals the deal!

please someone. where is our dear friend @Ahwatukee

 

[dcontroversal]

i always thought pre-tribbers believe those that are Christ's at his coming mean the rapture coming. which group is teh rapture part of then? you got: Christ firstfruits, they that are Christ's at his coming. where is the third group?

post-trib fits best to that model.

@dcontroversal what about John 14:1-3? how can that be fulfilled in post-trib prewrath? since we wouldnt go back to heaven to be with Jesus but turn back and come to earth?

New Jerusalem is the city not made with the hands of men that Abraham looked for.....it will come down to the earth and God will reside with men......we cannot look at time from our prospect of time.....linear.....In God's eyes it is all done already.....and for sure......right now in heaven (per Revelation) is a number that no man can number.......the saints JESUS brings with him when he returns!!

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

In verse 54 he says corruption must put on incorruption and this mortal must put on immortality. They are the same thing. It is transferring from the Adamic/Old Covenant world into Christ's Kingdom/New Covenant world.

I disagree that "this CORRUPTION/corruptible must put on incorruption" and "this MORTAL must put on immortality" is the same thing (as each other). The former refers to physically dead people (though saved), the latter to STILL-ALIVE people (also saved persons). This is why you are missing the point in both 1Cor15:51-54 and 2Cor5:2-4! Mortal is referring to living persons (and here in these contexts it is SAVED living persons, at the time specifically spoken of... [and/additionally, the very specific "THIS" of the 1Cor15:51 passage ]).

 

[delirious]

This is why you are missing the point in both 1Cor15:51-54 and 2Cor5:2-4! Mortal is referring to living persons (and here in these contexts it is SAVED living persons, at the time specifically spoken of... [and/additionally, the very specific "THIS" of the 1Cor15:51 passage ]).

In Adam there was corruption and mortality. People were separated from God by their sins. Those who were not saved...perished. Those who were saved...fell asleep. Death reigned.

In Christ, when He brought His kingdom in 70 A.D., Death was swallowed up by His Life. Now Life reigns.

Paul, in verse 51, is saying the dead were raised and the living were "changed". It is not a physical change. It is spiritual and the resurrection is spiritual. It is entering Christ's kingdom from the fallen/corrupt/mortal Adamic kingdom.

Verses 42-50 talk about this "change" as moving from the old covenant/Adamic world into the new covenant/Christ's kingdom world. It is a transfer from the natural/mortal/corrupt to the spiritual/immortal/incorrupt.

 

[JohnRH]

following is a message i sent to a brother or sister on this forum in another topic but i want create new topic not to create confusion. :

dear friend i do not wish to twist or skew any bible verse. i am only believing what i believe to be correct. i want to be in the truth. i hope God leads me to it if im not already in it.

if you want to unskew my teaching could you show me how these verses work with premillennialism:


2 Thessalonians 1:6-9 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

i wish know who can be left in flesh? righteous are given rest when Jesus is revealed in flaming fire, destroying all those who dont know God or obey gospel so nobody left in flesh to go to the milleni kingdom?

Matthew 25:46 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

this also shows eternal consequences, nobody left in flesh again?

1 Corinthians 15:50 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

how can anyone inherit the kingdom (matt 25:34) in the flesh?

2 Peter 3:10-13 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.
Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

here again nobody is left since earth is destroyed and peter tells them we are looking forward to new heaven and earth not millennial kingdom. ?

my dear friends how do you answer these verses, if you could, bring me the knowledge. i am willing to learn the truth always i ask you. Lord help us all to truth. amen.

i just believe what i read in the new testament its clear but what is not clear is revelation 20 in my view, how can satan be bound while he is the god of this world? i confess brethren that is the weakness in my view, but can we discuss in christian love and fellowship strengths and weaknesses and maybe iron sharpens iron and we can learn how to make all the verses fit together?

1. We're currently in the church age.
2. Then comes the rapture; Jesus comes in the clouds to take His people home.
3. Then comes the 7 year tribulation (Revelation 6-19).
4. Then Jesus returns to the earth (Revelation 19).
5. Then comes the 1,000 year millennium where Jesus reigns on earth. Satan is bound in the bottomless pit during this time.
6. Then Satan is released, stirs up the final rebellion on earth, and is eternally defeated (Revelation 20:7-10).
7. Then the new heaven and new earth happens and lasts for eternity.