Not By Works

[Argueless]

in case, you missed it, I answered you question- yes, we are to obey.


you did not tell me your point.

Our purpose is to bring glory to God and it is our whole DUTY to FEAR GOD and OBEY HIS COMMANDS.

Those who belong to Him will obey His command to LOVE GOD and one another...and this is LOVE; that we WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS.

And here's my point...

We are the righteousness of God, His instruments of righteousness, members of His body and fellow workers of God, His fullness, for the glory of God.

...I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way. Ephesians 1:17-23

...Therefore I glory in Christ Jesus in my service to God. I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done— by the power of signs and miracles, through the power of the Spirit. So from Jerusalem all the way around to Illyricum, I have fully proclaimed the gospel of Christ. It has always been my ambition to preach the gospel where Christ was not known, so that I would not be building on someone else’s foundation. Rather, as it is written: “Those who were not told about him will see, and those who have not heard will understand.” Romans 15:17-21

...Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. Only let us live up to what we have already attained. Philippians 3:12-16 Pressing on Toward the Goal

Listen...

...“To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are WORTHY. He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. Revelation 3:1-6 To the Church in Sardis

“With man this is impossible, but WITH God all things are possible.”

...LET GOD BE TRUE and every man a LIAR...

 

[BibletruthSOP]

That last line is idiotic......Greek verb tense proves eternal security....not to mention all verses in context....your Jesus must be a weak inept liar....

Mine saves to the uttermost, keeps me by his power through the faith he begins, finishes and completes and his free gift is irrevocable...

It must be tragic to serve such a weak God that needs help keeping one saved...

Lets all keep studying

 

[dcontroversal]

Lets all keep studying

yep....I suggest a perfect tense Greek verb as applied unto salvation and faith.......

 

[BibletruthSOP]

Amen.....Coronthians is clear.....one that is not saved has no spiritual discernment concerning the word of God.....The NATURAL MAN cannot KNOW OR DISCERN THE WORD......of course we already knew that though.....!!!

Quite a difference between being saved and once saved always saved....the former is true...the latter is false.

 

[dcontroversal]

Quite a difference between being saved and once saved always saved....the former is true...the latter is false.

Not hardly...both are true....you just cannot grasp the truth....salvation is not losable and it is instantly given at the micro second of belief....the bible supports this.....those that peddle a losable salvation that must be maintained by man are as false as the day is long!!......And like I said...you must serve a weak inept god that cannot keep you saved.....the God of the bible KEEPS BY HIS POWER...so....what does that say about the weakling god you serve........!!

 

[FollowHisSteps]

How about you actually deal with the scripture Ephesians 2:8-9 rather than talking around it or pretend it does not exist?

It obviously gets in the way, of your path (footsteps) towards holiness.

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
Eph 2:8-9

The gift is the door and the path, the way of salvation, but it is not free and it is not assumed.
I would say it is foolish to believe God of law, obedience, following His way alone, abandoning evil
and walking in love and commitment of everything we have and are to Him, is a thought Christian
God is just nuts.

The pharisees who tried to keep the law exactly, without fault, to which Paul obeyed faultlessly,
still said he counted this as nothing compared to knowing Jesus.

The law of Christ, the law of the Spirit, which is the law of love, has not passed away, and we are
not free to behave as the idea or thought takes us, but to dwell in God and His will, and are slaves
to righteousness. But in this there is true freedom, eternal freedom, life without end.

The strangest thing is I am writing this to a believer as if they are in opposition to following and
obeying Christ. If it is true, they are in rebellion against Christ and His word, they do not know Him
and are evil doers.

Jesus criticised the inability of the Pharisees at keeping their own teaching, not that their aspirations
were wrong. He taught we should keep the law, the law of Christ, and not be like them in their failure.
But this is only possible if we love God from our hearts and our hearts have been purified, cleansed and
dedicated to love and His ways. If not, we are fake and will continually fail and never achieve what
Jesus has called us to. It is that simple.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Not salvation........to finish the race in honor without becoming unusable.....salvation is secure!

A house built on sand.
Many claim they have faith in Jesus, but it is not faith in Him, it is faith in a ticket to heaven
at no cost. A thought Christian is not Gods aim or intention.

Once you accept the intention in the same as the action you are lost.
Action only exists when it happens, until then it is just intention.

If intentions where righteousness, then God did not have to come and die upon the cross, make
friends with the disciples and rise again because He had all the intentions in His heart.

Equally giving up anything, paying a price just needs to be intentions.
But we know intentions come and go, and only that which is put into effect is real.

So someone is saved when the confess faith, when their hearts are opened to God, when they repent
and turn from evil deeds and start to follow love and Christ. Each step needs to be an exercise in this
walk and communion, else the work is not completed. And Paul writes

being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
Phil 1:6

21 Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?
22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.
James 2:21-22

 

[FollowHisSteps]

1 Peter 5:8: Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil. as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.

Satan is seeking to devour those who have been converted. Obviously, the rest he has and does not need to seek them. I do believe Peter is expressing a serious warning to real Christians. Why? Because it is a real possibility. Paul warns against falling at length. There is no such thing as once saved always saved this side of the second coming. It is an extremely dangerous thing to get in your mind. It destroys the evilness of sin and therefore relegates the cross to just a "as long as I get to heaven mindset." The plan of salvation is to destroy sin, not to make sin meaningless. I had a person , a policeman no less, get really mad at me ...we were in a car together.. thank goodness I was driving... we were discussing OSAS and he got so mad at me for refuting OSAS.. he literally yelled at me that he could get out of the car right now, go into that yard where a bunch of kids were playing, start killing the kids, and while doing that, if another policeman shot him dead, he would immediately be welcomed into heaven by Jesus.

I have had others say essentially the same. OSAS is an evil satanic doctrine having nothing to do with the God of Love.

I 100% agree. It is the disconnect between our hearts and our behaviour that is the error.
But I suspect all who follow such a theology have defended hearts into which God is not allowed.

In your example of this policeman, how could he even construct the idea that doing such harm would
not be against everything his heart desires and believes in. And the anger should be a warning sign to
the sin that lies hidden and pride at daring to suggest he has to let light into his heart and sort out
the issues and evil not resolved. Thought Christians have never come before the King and let Him
cleanse them, or else their security would be in the cross and not their thought faith.

 

[dcontroversal]

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
Eph 2:8-9

The gift is the door and the path, the way of salvation, but it is not free and it is not assumed.

The above is one of the most idiotic things I have ever heard a supposed believer say......Petey.....your cracker jack views keep getting farther out in left field man....!!

 

[dcontroversal]

A house built on sand.
Many claim they have faith in Jesus, but it is not faith in Him, it is faith in a ticket to heaven
at no cost. A thought Christian is not Gods aim or intention.

Once you accept the intention in the same as the action you are lost.
Action only exists when it happens, until then it is just intention.

If intentions where righteousness, then God did not have to come and die upon the cross, make
friends with the disciples and rise again because He had all the intentions in His heart.

Equally giving up anything, paying a price just needs to be intentions.
But we know intentions come and go, and only that which is put into effect is real.

So someone is saved when the confess faith, when their hearts are opened to God, when they repent
and turn from evil deeds and start to follow love and Christ. Each step needs to be an exercise in this
walk and communion, else the work is not completed. And Paul writes

being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
Phil 1:6

21 Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?
22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.
James 2:21-22

Petey....nothing you say carries any weight.....psycho babble and scriptures embellished or out of context a corrwcr message does not make....

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Petey....nothing you say carries any weight.....psycho babble and scriptures embellished or out of context a corrwcr message does not make....

Hi dcon,

I wish you just openly declared your position, but then maybe your whole support and foundation
would crumble.

I am saved by faith alone in Jesus, but this faith works out in action and cannot be separated from it.
Making denigrating comments does not answer anything or help your cause.

Are you just a thought Christian? Because following this theology, everyone in the church is probably
saved, no matter what they believe after they are sealed by the thought Jesus is God.

It somewhat makes a farce of the idea most of the christian church are wrong, because everyone is
actually saved, and just preaching the gospel in lose form is good enough.

It is what I have always found intriguing how one can believe being born again is so simple, but is
undone if you then come to another position later, which is denied by the first belief of faith.

But I suspect it is just hard hearts knowing they cannot live without God, but need God to forgive
them even though they keep Him far away from things that matter.

19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.
John 3:19-21

So dear friend, if you actually believe what you claim, please explain it.
How can one ignore the sermon on the mount and the life that flows from it?
Unless you love Jesus words and ways, to which I will shout, Amen.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
Eph 2:8-9

The gift is the door and the path, the way of salvation, but it is not free and it is not assumed.
I would say it is foolish to believe God of law, obedience, following His way alone, abandoning evil
and walking in love and commitment of everything we have and are to Him, is a thought Christian
God is just nuts.

The pharisees who tried to keep the law exactly, without fault, to which Paul obeyed faultlessly,
still said he counted this as nothing compared to knowing Jesus.

The law of Christ, the law of the Spirit, which is the law of love, has not passed away, and we are
not free to behave as the idea or thought takes us, but to dwell in God and His will, and are slaves
to righteousness. But in this there is true freedom, eternal freedom, life without end.

The strangest thing is I am writing this to a believer as if they are in opposition to following and
obeying Christ. If it is true, they are in rebellion against Christ and His word, they do not know Him
and are evil doers.

Jesus criticised the inability of the Pharisees at keeping their own teaching, not that their aspirations
were wrong. He taught we should keep the law, the law of Christ, and not be like them in their failure.
But this is only possible if we love God from our hearts and our hearts have been purified, cleansed and
dedicated to love and His ways. If not, we are fake and will continually fail and never achieve what
Jesus has called us to. It is that simple.

The above is one of the most idiotic things I have ever heard a supposed believer say......Petey.....your cracker jack views keep getting farther out in left field man....!!

Hi dcon,

18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."
1 cor 1:18-19

Maybe you are so hard to the truth and been talking one way too long, nothing can get through.
"idiotic" is not something that even comes close to an answer, which is not funny but actually
extremely sad. A bible college trained man should know better, but maybe this is how you cope,
I do not know, but I wish you well, God bless you.

By the way, whatever you are trying to say, you are helping me define better what you represent
and how it fails to grasp and understand the overwhelming nature of love and obedience to Christ,
which rules the Kingdom of Heaven.

9 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Matt 6:9-10

Is this our heart beat, everyday in all that we do?

Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord
Col 3:23

 

[stonesoffire]

When Paul says "but to the one that does not work" He is talking about the one that does not consider anything of himself or what he can do as having salvation merit, but believes in salvation being Christs work, all of Christ 100%. Paul is not speaking of the fruit of the spirit which are always the result of conversion.

Actually, Paul is speaking of Abraham and David, so to understand what he's saying, you must consider what is shown of their life.

Justifies the ungodly by their faith is in there somewhere. Both godly and ungodly.. 😉 While he was yet uncircumcised...ringeth a bell?

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Actually, Paul is speaking of Abraham and David, so to understand what he's saying, you must consider what is shown of their life.

Justifies the ungodly by their faith is in there somewhere. Both godly and ungodly.. 😉 While he was yet uncircumcised...ringeth a bell?

21 Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?
22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.
James 2:21-22

Faith is made complete by actions, faith is just an intention without its outworking.
Thought christians are just hopeful sinners thinking they know Jesus.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

That last line is idiotic......Greek verb tense proves eternal security....not to mention all verses in context....your Jesus must be a weak inept liar....
Mine saves to the uttermost, keeps me by his power through the faith he begins, finishes and completes and his free gift is irrevocable...
It must be tragic to serve such a weak God that needs help keeping one saved...

Important principles are being expressed here.
"eternal security" "saves to the uttermost" "free gift" "irrevocable" "help keeping one saved"

Eternal security relies on promises made by Christ before He died on the cross.
By definition of those who believe this, these promises were only made to the Jews.
So there is belief hypocrisy here. Promises apply to all, but commands only are jokes.

The promises. The promises apply only to the Lords Sheep.
And the Lords Sheep are those who believe in Him and obey Him.
Order is not important here, reality is. Preach disobedience, you are not His Sheep so no
promise for you.

Salvation is not free. Giving up your life, repenting, turning from evil deeds to righteous deeds
is change, a real cost. Jesus described the price as dying to this world and all it is, and rising
to life in Him, eternal life.

Gods promise to His people is irrevocable, but staying His disciple depends on ones choice.
If you complete the walk, then you will inherit eternal life, by paying the price of the walk.

Because the walk is a choice, a choice for life and love over evil and death, it is a working out
of our salvation, the true nature of heaven and its reality in our hearts.
One could express this as keeping one saved, but it is like saying we eat to stay alive, yes,
duhhhh. To obey God is to love Him, because He only commands that which is life.

We are safe in Christ, like an embrace of love, whether here on earth or when we meet in
heaven, Amen.

 

[gb9]

21 Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?
22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.
James 2:21-22

Faith is made complete by actions, faith is just an intention without its outworking.
Thought christians are just hopeful sinners thinking they know Jesus.

you are a sinner. I am a sinner. there is not 1 human being who does no sin. if you use the proper definition of sin, you would know this.

you say you are not a sinless perfectionist. ( you used to be ). so, you are either a sinless and perfect or a sinner. there is no 3rd category.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

you are a sinner. I am a sinner. there is not 1 human being who does no sin. if you use the proper definition of sin, you would know this.
you say you are not a sinless perfectionist. ( you used to be ). so, you are either a sinless and perfect or a sinner. there is no 3rd category.

I have never been a sinless perfectionist. People project what they like onto my words.
My question has always been, can we walk like Jesus? What does this mean?
Unless one defines the question it cannot be answered.

You raise an important question about what is sin. And God is very brutal. It is obvious.
Man always likes to define very small points and argue about them forever and forget the
big ones, like mercy, forgiving others who have done wrong, faithfulness, be true to ones
commitments, justice, making sure things are done fairly and justly.

Nineveh did not need to have sin argued about, they repented, or they would have been judged.
Israel with its thefts, murders, idolatry, adultery etc did not need great definition of sin to know
what sin was and what they needed to repent of.

Just like being like Jesus.

Poor in spirit, mourning, meek, hungering after righteousness, merciful, pure in heart, peacemakers.
Their treasure is in heaven, they are not angry, but bless, they do not lust after sexual desire, they love their
enemies, they do their acts of righteousness in private not for show, they pray meaningful prayers expecting
the Lord hears and will answer, they forgive from the heart, they do not worry about wealth but the Lords ways,
they do not judge but desire to help and encourage others.
Matt 5 - 7

Is this really that hard, or simply are people too stubborn to believe this is the way to life?
It is unbelief and hard hearts that stop people walking in the way of Jesus, pure and simple.

And that is sin, the sin of rebellion and unbelief.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

you are a sinner. I am a sinner. there is not 1 human being who does no sin. if you use the proper definition of sin, you would know this.
you say you are not a sinless perfectionist. ( you used to be ). so, you are either a sinless and perfect or a sinner. there is no 3rd category.

I was a sinner, now I am a repentant saint.
It is for God to judge how sinless or otherwise I am as a saint.
Paul calls us Holy, pure, blameless, washed clean. Who am I to declare that which
God has cleansed impure and defiled.

 

[gb9]

I was a sinner, now I am a repentant saint.
It is for God to judge how sinless or otherwise I am as a saint.
Paul calls us Holy, pure, blameless, washed clean. Who am I to declare that which
God has cleansed impure and defiled.

I agree with this.

however, while we are called to be blameless, holy and pure, we need to acknowledge when we fall short of that.

and we know this by using the standards that the Bible lays out, without changing them. and that includes the definition of the words that compose Scripture.

 

[mailmandan]

Yet another salvation loser...so..a newbie or a banned deceiver back again??

And the game of whack-a-mole continues?