Does 1 Corinthians 3:15 REALLY teach that saints who backslide and never repent only forfeit rewards?
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In understanding this passage, in the context its good works building on the foundations of Jesus Christ.
Again as in another post, some teachers try to make out like its people bulding sin, just as people try to make out that good works are a sin. But its not sin. Its just building on the foundation of Jesus Christ...all the works that God appoints us to do. Now its the QUALITY of that work will be tried.
Why would anyone, build SIN upon a foundation of Jesus CHrist?
Its talking about good works, and works that will last. Some good works arent long lasting. For example, you might donate some money to a charity but they spend it on an event that will only last a day. Its good to do, but it doesnt leave any lasting impression. Someone else might do a good work that will last someone a lifetime. It could be you give someone an encouragement or spent the time teaching that they need as a child and they never ever forget that you believed in them, taught them or treated them kindly.
At least thats how I seee it.
Im noticing in this forum that some people are focusing on sin as if thats the norm of a christians life. Actually its not! We dont get saved just so we can sin and still get away with it! We get saved so we can be free of sin and do the good works God wants us to do!
Again as in another post, some teachers try to make out like its people bulding sin, just as people try to make out that good works are a sin. But its not sin. Its just building on the foundation of Jesus Christ...all the works that God appoints us to do. Now its the QUALITY of that work will be tried.
Why would anyone, build SIN upon a foundation of Jesus CHrist?
Its talking about good works, and works that will last. Some good works arent long lasting. For example, you might donate some money to a charity but they spend it on an event that will only last a day. Its good to do, but it doesnt leave any lasting impression. Someone else might do a good work that will last someone a lifetime. It could be you give someone an encouragement or spent the time teaching that they need as a child and they never ever forget that you believed in them, taught them or treated them kindly.
At least thats how I seee it.
Im noticing in this forum that some people are focusing on sin as if thats the norm of a christians life. Actually its not! We dont get saved just so we can sin and still get away with it! We get saved so we can be free of sin and do the good works God wants us to do!
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Divisions in the Church
1 Brothers, I couldn't talk to you as spiritual people but as worldly people, as mere infants in the Messiah.
Paul speaking to the church. (People)
2 I gave you milk to drink, not solid food, because you weren't ready for it. And you're still not ready!
People- immature and unable to promote.
3 That's because you are still worldly. As long as there is jealousy and quarreling among you, you are worldly and living by human standards, aren't you?
People exalting in men.
4 For when one person says, "I follow Paul," and another person says, "I follow to Apollos," you're following your own human nature, aren't you?
People- carnality of thought.
5 Who is Apollos, anyhow? Or who is Paul? They're merely servants through whom you came to believe, as the Lord gave to each of us his task.
Leaders serving people in their individual giftings.
6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God kept everything growing.
Leaders labor Source of growth God
7 So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is significant, but God, who keeps everything growing, is the one who matters.
Leaders labor- People exalt God only.
8 The one who plants and the one who waters have the same goal, and each will receive a reward for his own action.
Leaders rewards for achievement of goal,
9 For we are God's co-workers. You are God's farmland and God's building.
Leaders labor towards (in ) people, in union with God. People- the building and the farmland
10 As an expert builder using the grace that God gave me, I laid the foundation, and someone else is building on it. But each person must be careful how he builds on it.
Leaders- building with tools given.
11 After all, no one can lay any other foundation than the one that is already laid, and that is Jesus the Messiah.
Leaders- labor on foundation.
12 Whether a person builds on this foundation with gold, silver, expensive stones, wood, hay, or straw,
Leaders- individual types of tools
13 the workmanship of each person will become evident, for the day of judgment will show what it is, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person's action.
Fruit of leaders labor shown,
14 If what a person has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.
Leaders (builders) labor lasting.
15 If his work is burned up, he will suffer loss. However, he himself will be saved, but it will be like going through fire.
Leaders fruit of their labor towards (in) the people- judgement.
16 You know that you are God's sanctuary and that God's Spirit lives in you, don't you?
People carrying His Presence.
17 If anyone destroys God's sanctuary, God will destroy him, for God's sanctuary is holy. And you are that sanctuary!
Leaders labor is destructive? Or life situations?
It's how I see this at this moment.
😇
1 Brothers, I couldn't talk to you as spiritual people but as worldly people, as mere infants in the Messiah.
Paul speaking to the church. (People)
2 I gave you milk to drink, not solid food, because you weren't ready for it. And you're still not ready!
People- immature and unable to promote.
3 That's because you are still worldly. As long as there is jealousy and quarreling among you, you are worldly and living by human standards, aren't you?
People exalting in men.
4 For when one person says, "I follow Paul," and another person says, "I follow to Apollos," you're following your own human nature, aren't you?
People- carnality of thought.
5 Who is Apollos, anyhow? Or who is Paul? They're merely servants through whom you came to believe, as the Lord gave to each of us his task.
Leaders serving people in their individual giftings.
6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God kept everything growing.
Leaders labor Source of growth God
7 So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is significant, but God, who keeps everything growing, is the one who matters.
Leaders labor- People exalt God only.
8 The one who plants and the one who waters have the same goal, and each will receive a reward for his own action.
Leaders rewards for achievement of goal,
9 For we are God's co-workers. You are God's farmland and God's building.
Leaders labor towards (in ) people, in union with God. People- the building and the farmland
10 As an expert builder using the grace that God gave me, I laid the foundation, and someone else is building on it. But each person must be careful how he builds on it.
Leaders- building with tools given.
11 After all, no one can lay any other foundation than the one that is already laid, and that is Jesus the Messiah.
Leaders- labor on foundation.
12 Whether a person builds on this foundation with gold, silver, expensive stones, wood, hay, or straw,
Leaders- individual types of tools
13 the workmanship of each person will become evident, for the day of judgment will show what it is, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person's action.
Fruit of leaders labor shown,
14 If what a person has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.
Leaders (builders) labor lasting.
15 If his work is burned up, he will suffer loss. However, he himself will be saved, but it will be like going through fire.
Leaders fruit of their labor towards (in) the people- judgement.
16 You know that you are God's sanctuary and that God's Spirit lives in you, don't you?
People carrying His Presence.
17 If anyone destroys God's sanctuary, God will destroy him, for God's sanctuary is holy. And you are that sanctuary!
Leaders labor is destructive? Or life situations?
It's how I see this at this moment.
😇
That would be defining, the having the same SPIRIT OF FAITH as that which is written not faith.
We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;
(2Co 4:13 KJV)
Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the word) down from above. Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the word) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: THAT IS THE WORD OF FAITH IN WHICH WE PREACH.
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my (Christ; the word) laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
As the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
For Christ (the word, HIS laws in the heart and mouth) is the end of the law (from parchment and tables of stone) for righteousness to every one that believeth.
(Rom 10:4-8; Heb 8:10;2Co 3:3-6; Rom 10:4)
We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;
(2Co 4:13 KJV)
Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the word) down from above. Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the word) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: THAT IS THE WORD OF FAITH IN WHICH WE PREACH.
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my (Christ; the word) laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
As the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
For Christ (the word, HIS laws in the heart and mouth) is the end of the law (from parchment and tables of stone) for righteousness to every one that believeth.
(Rom 10:4-8; Heb 8:10;2Co 3:3-6; Rom 10:4)
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Spirit of Faith vs Faith, if you want to split hair, okay that is fine, but your point is not really contradicting mine.
Technically the latter means the substance of things hope for, evidence of things unseen (Hebrews 11:1), but since we are talking about salvation, I prefer to use the 2 Cor version since it brings up how we are saved by grace thru faith. So, you need to believe and speak out, in order to be saved (Romans 10:9)
Technically the latter means the substance of things hope for, evidence of things unseen (Hebrews 11:1), but since we are talking about salvation, I prefer to use the 2 Cor version since it brings up how we are saved by grace thru faith. So, you need to believe and speak out, in order to be saved (Romans 10:9)
Paul is being led by the Spirit of Christ which dwells in him . Apollos led by the same mutual faith of Christ that lives in Him .They have different requirements from God . Following either one by walking by sight just because they do have the born again Spirit of God .would be different, seeking after their person .Faith does not come from hearing men but does come from hearing Him as two walking together.
Paul and Apollos can plant the incorruptible seed by which all men are born again But only Christ can cause the growth if any.
It is the antichrists motive of operation that one would follow after men like Paul and Apollos. In that we are not to think of any man above that which is written. Even Jesus the Son of man refused to be worshipped and followed after because of his flesh . When called good infallible master as a fleshly mediator between God not seen, and man seen .Jesus replied only God (not seen is good) giving glory to the unseen holy place our one source of faith
Paul and Apollos can plant the incorruptible seed by which all men are born again But only Christ can cause the growth if any.
It is the antichrists motive of operation that one would follow after men like Paul and Apollos. In that we are not to think of any man above that which is written. Even Jesus the Son of man refused to be worshipped and followed after because of his flesh . When called good infallible master as a fleshly mediator between God not seen, and man seen .Jesus replied only God (not seen is good) giving glory to the unseen holy place our one source of faith
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3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
The point was that this verse has nothing to do with determining whether or not one is saved. It is about the quality and rewards for a given believer's works. Some will not have much in the order of rewards, but they will still be saved.
The point was that this verse has nothing to do with determining whether or not one is saved. It is about the quality and rewards for a given believer's works. Some will not have much in the order of rewards, but they will still be saved.
Verse 17, IMV, is the center of thought that should be the focus. This is more about leaders and their teachings that could be destructive to the building on the foundation of Jesus Christ the righteous. And rewards or judgement is spoken of as aimed at those leaders, and not the believers themselves.
As for me, yes and yes. The passage is not about losing salvation, but salvation CAN be lost through un-repented of sin. Salvation is not a license to do your own thing for the rest of your life. That is not the same as stumbling and immediately repenting. Neither is it the same as doing little or no good works. I cannot conceive of anyone rebelling against the love of Jesus after they have tasted it and received it into their hearts, but the Bible says it can happen.
If you read this in the ISV, supposed to be more accurate than some, it's not about sin at all. It's Paul correcting the whole church and separates thought towards believers as the building, and leaders as the builders.
It's the builders whose works might be rewarded or burnt depending on the growth of the believers.
Paul states he could not take them on into the meat of his teachings, which I believe is Sonship and the power of the body manifesting in the world, but milk was all they could handle.
It's not about sin at all. Teaching. Maturity...yes.
Would it not be sinners removed from their fellowship at that time? Sin would not be tolerated. Unlike today.
It's the builders whose works might be rewarded or burnt depending on the growth of the believers.
Paul states he could not take them on into the meat of his teachings, which I believe is Sonship and the power of the body manifesting in the world, but milk was all they could handle.
It's not about sin at all. Teaching. Maturity...yes.
Would it not be sinners removed from their fellowship at that time? Sin would not be tolerated. Unlike today.
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Well thats wrong
All sin will be forgiven men, thats the promise and statement of christ. He took the penalty of sin on the cross. If he did not pay for your particular sin, then you have no hope. And the only way you can be saved is for Christ to return.
That passage says a person can be saved, Never produce fruit, and still be saved.
Why? Because salvation cna not be earned in the first place.
People need ot put sin on the cross. And realise that it takes only 1 sin to make you unworthy, So in reality, if sin can cause you to lose salvation. All it would take is 1 sin.. That is what God requires. He stated it in the law. And paul re-iterated t to the galation church, Even james made it clear when he makes it known that if we keep the whole law (are sinless) yet fail in one point, we are guilty of the law.
To say one can lose salvation because they did not work hard enough to stop sin is just wrong.
All sin will be forgiven men, thats the promise and statement of christ. He took the penalty of sin on the cross. If he did not pay for your particular sin, then you have no hope. And the only way you can be saved is for Christ to return.
That passage says a person can be saved, Never produce fruit, and still be saved.
Why? Because salvation cna not be earned in the first place.
People need ot put sin on the cross. And realise that it takes only 1 sin to make you unworthy, So in reality, if sin can cause you to lose salvation. All it would take is 1 sin.. That is what God requires. He stated it in the law. And paul re-iterated t to the galation church, Even james made it clear when he makes it known that if we keep the whole law (are sinless) yet fail in one point, we are guilty of the law.
To say one can lose salvation because they did not work hard enough to stop sin is just wrong.
E
Your right, it is not about sin at all.
Jesus took care of the sin issue on the cross..
There is not a man or woman alive today or who has ever lived that did not sin enough that they earned salvation. They ALL have sinned and fall short of that standard. (Missed the mark)
If sin can cause us to lose salvation, Then NO ONE, and I do mean NO ONE will ever be saved.
Jesus took care of the sin issue on the cross..
There is not a man or woman alive today or who has ever lived that did not sin enough that they earned salvation. They ALL have sinned and fall short of that standard. (Missed the mark)
If sin can cause us to lose salvation, Then NO ONE, and I do mean NO ONE will ever be saved.
Ah, here is a thread that expresses Protestant darkness desperately in need of Catholic light!
The Greek "zemiousthai" can mean both "to be punished" and "to suffer loss." And the phrase "saved so as by fire" has a specialized application to Gehenna in rabbinic Judaism. Can you say the Catholic P word? For a full explanation, see my thread on Ultimate release from Hell.
The Greek "zemiousthai" can mean both "to be punished" and "to suffer loss." And the phrase "saved so as by fire" has a specialized application to Gehenna in rabbinic Judaism. Can you say the Catholic P word? For a full explanation, see my thread on Ultimate release from Hell.
Ah, here is a thread that expresses Protestant darkness desperately in need of Catholic light!
The Greek "zemiousthai" can mean both "to be punished" and "to suffer loss." And the phrase "saved so as by fire" has a specialized application to Gehenna in rabbinic Judaism. Can you say the Catholic P word? For a full explanation, see my thread on Ultimate release from Hell.
The Greek "zemiousthai" can mean both "to be punished" and "to suffer loss." And the phrase "saved so as by fire" has a specialized application to Gehenna in rabbinic Judaism. Can you say the Catholic P word? For a full explanation, see my thread on Ultimate release from Hell.
For those who die without believing in Christ, their record is sealed because salvation is based on faith and not works. Fire does not purge us of our sins. Only the blood of Jesus can cleanse us of sin.
The only other place there is besides the lake of fire, is the temporary holding place of all the unrighteous dead, which is Sheol/Hades. This place is a place of torment in flame for punishment, not for purging. That punishment will carry on after the great white throne judgment in the lake of fire.
For believers in Christ, He was held accountable for their sins. Those who die without believing, they will be held accountable for every sin they committed, instead of Christ. And that because all sin is against God and must be accounted for, every idle word.
Once a person dies without believing in Christ, they will have died in the sins and there is no opportunity for salvation after death.
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