How does one believe?

[metanoia]

You are sure a nit-picker when it comes to works. I see nobody claiming their salvation is a result of their works. So it becomes a distinction who's works is it when we start obeying Christ as His followers. How do we really know we believe unless we obey His commands? Where does it stop being our works and become Christ's works? You believe we should follow the heart and footsteps of Jesus, then you turn around and say that is our works. Once we are saved, is it not God's works?

Regarding your statement that scripture does not tell us to repent: Not true. The very message that John the Baptist brought was to repent for the remission of sins. That is what sets up the gospel. The gospel is about the Kingdom of God, not the story of Christ.

Mark 1:4, 5 "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins."

Mark 1:15 "And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel."

Good works are usually a result of receiving Christ but NOT necessary to receive salvation. "Repentance" (or Repent) in its original Greek form means Change of Mind. When John the Baptist was crying out "Repent ye, for the kingdom of God is at hand, he wasn't exclaiming a note of danger, full of terror, amid which hearts of the people stood still, instead it was an invocation of a mind, heart, and life which should befit such a glad and glorious "change" as the kingdom of heaven and the beginning of the Church Age would soon be made available to all who believe in Jesus Christ, the promised Messiah, the unblemished Lamb of God and only worthy sacrifice for all of our sins. Yes, I will always be very "nit-picky" about anything that diminishes the supreme sacrifice of Jesus Christ by adding their own personal works into the equation of the Gospel of Christ and salvation. Our salvation begins and is eternally secure the moment we BELIEVE the Gospel of Christ. Our works have nothing to do with our salvation. What we choose to do as a Christian is up to us. We can choose to grow and mature in God's word, or remain milk-fed only. We can choose to serve our Lord, or we can do nothing. We can choose to be unfaithful but God ALWAYS remains FAITHFUL.

 

[NayborBear]

I am sorry that you objected to me for pointing that out to you. Can you explain to me how the natural man described in 1 Cor 2:14 can repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern? To me, if a person repents of breaking a spiritual law, then he must have already been born spiritually, Eph 2:5. I am sorry that you perceive me as coming across as being smarter. That is not my intention, I am just discussing the scriptures as I see them, not unlike you or anybody else on this forum. I thought this was a "bible discussion forum".

Well FGC? Sure! A double-minded/hearted person, who is unstable in ALL their ways, can, and oft times wins the "battle" within oneself.
Where on the one hand, the Spirit sez: "Man cannot live on bread alone, but on every word the proceedeth from the word of God."
All the while, the other side of the coin, so to speak, sez: "Ok? You live on the word of God?" "Jez gimme 10 bucks for some groceries?" And, we both can live!"

Quite the conundrum, ain't it?

These 2 very distinct, yet very real realities, we find ourselves in these flesh bodies, ain't it?

Where the ULTIMATE goal of each? Is the total DOMINATION of the other?

It's not that the "natural" man need repent of ANYTHING. It's "dead meat", and it KNOWS it! That's why it's always at emnity against God! Waging its relentless WAR, AGAINST the Spiritual man!

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Repentance

Paul is quite simple about repentance

"I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." Act 26:20

For those who want to know what repent means look into the history of Israel, the old testament
and Hebrew

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Holidays/Fall_Holidays/Elul/Teshuvah/teshuvah.html

Four Steps of Repentance Teshuvah:

1 Forsake the sin (Prov. 28:13). "Sincere repentance is demonstrated when the same temptation to sin, under the same conditions, is resolutely resisted" (Talmud Yoma 86b). Note that according to traditional Jewish views, the atonement is of no avail without repentance (Midrash Sifra). [shuv/strepho]

2 Regret the breach in your relationship with God and others (Psalm 51). [nacham/metanoia]

3 Confess the truth and make amends with those we have harmed (Prov. 28:13; 1 John 1:9; James 5:16, Matt. 5:23-4). Note that we must ask for mechilah (forgiveness from others) before receiving selichah (forgiveness from God). [shuv/strepho]

4 Accept your forgiveness and move forward with the LORD through faith (Phil. 3:13-14; 1 John 1:9). Be comforted by the Presence of the LORD in your life: Nachumu: "Comfort ye my people" (Isa. 40:1). [nacham/metanoia].

Finally, it needs to be said that authentic repentance is a lifestyle, not a "one time deal." We never get past it. Although there is certainly spiritual progress as we walk in grace, all genuine progress comes through ongoing teshuvah. We may repent from a certain action at a given point in time, but that does not mean that no longer need to do teshuvah. Teshuvah is perpetual and timeless, since it corresponds to our spiritual rather than our temporal lives (i.e., chayei olam rather than chayei sha'ah). Indeed, a true penitent is called baal teshuvah , a "master of returning," who is always turning away from self and toward God. We never get beyond the call to "repent and believe the gospel" (Mark 1:15). That is why the season of teshuvah is always timely. The message of Elul and the High Holidays is meant to be carried over throughout the rest of the year.

Many heretical teachers call repentance nothing to do with sin or turning to God and walking
in His ways, but they are simply wrong and founding their whole theology on a miss understanding
of the greek word metanoia

In the case of metanoia μετάνοια Bauer, BAGD says the following:

"repentance, turning about, conversion" as a turning away, (from sin). Also the positive aspects of repentance as turning towards God.

"For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death." 2 Cor. 7:10

It is not just changing your approach in your mind.
Jesus tells it like this

"I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.” Luke 5:22

Who is Jesus calling to come to repentance?
Sinners! Because sinners are the ones who are called!
Paul is clear that repentance involved grief.

"As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us." 2 Cor. 7:9

And who is this repentance towards? Paul is clear that repentance has to do with God!

"how I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, and teaching you in public and from house to house,21 testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ." Acts 20:21-21

 

[mailmandan]

Although it is our responsibility to choose to believe and we will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18), saving belief/faith in Christ is never exclusively a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us in and enables us (John 6:44,65), we would NEVER come to believe in Christ unto salvation all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose Christ, we must choose Him. The impulse to saving belief/faith in Christ comes from God.

Romans 10:17 - So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Although it is our responsibility to choose to believe and we will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18), saving belief/faith in Christ is never exclusively a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us in and enables us (John 6:44,65), we would NEVER come to believe in Christ unto salvation all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose Christ, we must choose Him. The impulse to saving belief/faith in Christ comes from God.

Romans 10:17 - So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

That is true and only his sheep (regenerate children) can hear his voice.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Repentance

Paul is quite simple about repentance

"I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." Act 26:20

For those who want to know what repent means look into the history of Israel, the old testament
and Hebrew

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Holidays/Fall_Holidays/Elul/Teshuvah/teshuvah.html

Four Steps of Repentance Teshuvah:

1 Forsake the sin (Prov. 28:13). "Sincere repentance is demonstrated when the same temptation to sin, under the same conditions, is resolutely resisted" (Talmud Yoma 86b). Note that according to traditional Jewish views, the atonement is of no avail without repentance (Midrash Sifra). [shuv/strepho]

2 Regret the breach in your relationship with God and others (Psalm 51). [nacham/metanoia]

3 Confess the truth and make amends with those we have harmed (Prov. 28:13; 1 John 1:9; James 5:16, Matt. 5:23-4). Note that we must ask for mechilah (forgiveness from others) before receiving selichah (forgiveness from God). [shuv/strepho]

4 Accept your forgiveness and move forward with the LORD through faith (Phil. 3:13-14; 1 John 1:9). Be comforted by the Presence of the LORD in your life: Nachumu: "Comfort ye my people" (Isa. 40:1). [nacham/metanoia].

Finally, it needs to be said that authentic repentance is a lifestyle, not a "one time deal." We never get past it. Although there is certainly spiritual progress as we walk in grace, all genuine progress comes through ongoing teshuvah. We may repent from a certain action at a given point in time, but that does not mean that no longer need to do teshuvah. Teshuvah is perpetual and timeless, since it corresponds to our spiritual rather than our temporal lives (i.e., chayei olam rather than chayei sha'ah). Indeed, a true penitent is called baal teshuvah , a "master of returning," who is always turning away from self and toward God. We never get beyond the call to "repent and believe the gospel" (Mark 1:15). That is why the season of teshuvah is always timely. The message of Elul and the High Holidays is meant to be carried over throughout the rest of the year.

Many heretical teachers call repentance nothing to do with sin or turning to God and walking
in His ways, but they are simply wrong and founding their whole theology on a miss understanding
of the greek word metanoia

In the case of metanoia μετάνοια Bauer, BAGD says the following:

"repentance, turning about, conversion" as a turning away, (from sin). Also the positive aspects of repentance as turning towards God.

"For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death." 2 Cor. 7:10

It is not just changing your approach in your mind.
Jesus tells it like this

"I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.” Luke 5:22

Who is Jesus calling to come to repentance?
Sinners! Because sinners are the ones who are called!
Paul is clear that repentance involved grief.

"As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us." 2 Cor. 7:9

And who is this repentance towards? Paul is clear that repentance has to do with God!

"how I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, and teaching you in public and from house to house,21 testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ." Acts 20:21-21

1 Cor 2:14 says that the natural man, void of the Spirit, will not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern. Repentance only comes from those who have been regenerated and given the Holy Spirit in the new birth.

 

[metanoia]

Although it is our responsibility to choose to believe and we will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18), saving belief/faith in Christ is never exclusively a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us in and enables us (John 6:44,65), we would NEVER come to believe in Christ unto salvation all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose Christ, we must choose Him. The impulse to saving belief/faith in Christ comes from God.

Romans 10:17 - So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

You either believe the Gospel of Christ or you do not. There is no such thing as "saving faith." Once you believe in Jesus as God's only begotten son, and is God who became flesh to be the only worthy sacrifice for everyone's sin, you are saved and automatically sealed with the Holy Spirit. Only those who believe and trust in Jesus Christ as their blessed Redeemer will receive the free gift of eternal life. Those who reject and refuse to believe are condemned already. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts and empowers us throughout our lives, but even after we are saved, we still choose as to how we will serve the Lord. God is no respecter of persons, so He would never "draw" some people and not others. He told His disciples to go and preach the gospel to the world as He is not willing that any should perish. Based on your belief, please tell me how anyone would know they had been "drawn" by God and whether they have "saving faith?"

 

[metanoia]

1 Cor 2:14 says that the natural man, void of the Spirit, will not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern. Repentance only comes from those who have been regenerated and given the Holy Spirit in the new birth.

When the jailer asked Paul and Silas, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?", they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved, you and your household." A believer immediately becomes regenerated with a new spiritual birth and automatically receives the promise of his/her eternal life and inheritance in the kingdom of God. Repentance as implied in the Bible means change of mind which we do when we believe the message of the cross.

 

[mailmandan]

You either believe the Gospel of Christ or you do not. There is no such thing as "saving faith." Once you believe in Jesus as God's only begotten son, and is God who became flesh to be the only worthy sacrifice for everyone's sin, you are saved and automatically sealed with the Holy Spirit. Only those who believe and trust in Jesus Christ as their blessed Redeemer will receive the free gift of eternal life. Those who reject and refuse to believe are condemned already. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts and empowers us throughout our lives, but even after we are saved, we still choose as to how we will serve the Lord. God is no respecter of persons, so He would never "draw" some people and not others. He told His disciples to go and preach the gospel to the world as He is not willing that any should perish. Based on your belief, please tell me how anyone would know they had been "drawn" by God and whether they have "saving faith?"

You are right that either you believe the Gospel of Christ (Romans 1:16) or you do not (2 Corinthians 4:3,4). Faith that saves trusts in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. Faith that falls short of trusting in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation does not save.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

I don't believe that God fatalistically determines who He will draw and who He will not draw. The general call goes out every time the Gospel is preached, yet not everyone will respond. Many are called, but few are chosen. (Matthew 22:14) Just prior to receiving Christ through faith several years ago, I knew without a doubt that the Lord was drawing me as I diligently searched to scriptures and called out to Him to be saved. The moment that I finally did come to place my faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation, I knew without a doubt that I was saved.

1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. Praise God!

 

[Jackson123]

This might seem like a basic question but maybe people would like to share.

(Not sure if this is the right section for this thread)

Believe come from hearing the Word of God.

Like believe something else.

Some body give me electric wheelchair, and battery, but the battery was not on.

My friend interested to buy that wheelchair, so I put the battery.

I put it on but not work, so I google the manual and follow the instruction, it work.

The Word of God is manual how to go to heaven. Believe it and follow the manual like believe the manual how to repair something.

Not only believe this is the manual but if you believe, follow the instruction.

 

[Absolutely]

Salvation according to the Greek translation means "a deliverance". All of those that Christ died for were delivered (saved) eternally on the cross. Jesus's sacrifice was an offering to God, for the sins of his elect, for God's acceptance, and not to man for man's acceptance. When a regenerate child of God repents he is delivered (saved) from a non-fellowship with God to having a fellowship with God. The jailer did not need to be delivered eternally, but did need to be delivered to a fellowship with God. When we who have been saved eternally sin by lusting after the things of the world we must repent to regain our fellowship with God. For the scriptures to harmonize we must rightly divide the salvation scriptures.

All you did was muddy up what happened.
The jailer got saved period.
He asked
They told him what to do.
No microscope needed.
Kis
Keep it simple

 

[Lafftur]

Believe come from hearing the Word of God.

Like believe something else.

Some body give me electric wheelchair, and battery, but the battery was not on.

My friend interested to buy that wheelchair, so I put the battery.

I put it on but not work, so I google the manual and follow the instruction, it work.

The Word of God is manual how to go to heaven. Believe it and follow the manual like believe the manual how to repair something.

Not only believe this is the manual but if you believe, follow the instruction.

Don't leave out the most important part...................love.....a deep love and desire of the heart to know God and to love Him.

It begins with just deeply desiring to know the TRUTH......Is there a God? If yes, then I want to know Him. Why am I here? Why did He create me? Where is He? Why can't I see Him? Hear Him? Touch Him?

At first our natural man wants to experience God with our natural five senses because that's all he knows. Like Thomas wanting to see and touch Yeshua/Jesus before he would believe that He rose from the dead and is alive. If God cannot be experienced with our natural 5 senses then, we conclude that God does not exist.

However, all these questions arise because God is calling us to Himself.......He wants us to look for Him, diligently. God's heart is calling to our heart............

It will be with our 5 spiritual senses that we encounter God - by the Spirit is how we know God does exist. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God..................Yeshus/Jesus would speak and then say, "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying." Only with our spiritual ears can we hear the Spirit revealing Yeshua/Jesus to us.

The driving force behind our search for God needs to be...........a deep desire..........love. God promised that we would find Him, when we seek Him with ALL our heart.

 

[Absolutely]

Don't leave out the most important part...................love.....a deep love and desire of the heart to know God and to love Him.

It begins with just deeply desiring to know the TRUTH......Is there a God? If yes, then I want to know Him. Why am I here? Why did He create me? Where is He? Why can't I see Him? Hear Him? Touch Him?

At first our natural man wants to experience God with our natural five senses because that's all he knows. Like Thomas wanting to see and touch Yeshua/Jesus before he would believe that He rose from the dead and is alive. If God cannot be experienced with our natural 5 senses then, we conclude that God does not exist.

However, all these questions arise because God is calling us to Himself.......He wants us to look for Him, diligently. God's heart is calling to our heart............

It will be with our 5 spiritual senses that we encounter God - by the Spirit is how we know God does exist. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God..................Yeshus/Jesus would speak and then say, "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying." Only with our spiritual ears can we hear the Spirit revealing Yeshua/Jesus to us.

The driving force behind our search for God needs to be...........a deep desire..........love. God promised that we would find Him, when we seek Him with ALL our heart.

Well there you go again.
Being a good example, with a christlike attitude and lovely spirit and all.
You have the high ground for sure.
I commend you.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

When the jailer asked Paul and Silas, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?", they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved, you and your household." A believer immediately becomes regenerated with a new spiritual birth and automatically receives the promise of his/her eternal life and inheritance in the kingdom of God. Repentance as implied in the Bible means change of mind which we do when we believe the message of the cross.

Eph 2 explains that when we are dead spiritually we cannot respond to spiritual things, such as, believing in Christ. Only God's sheep hear to believe in spiritual things. Spiritually dead people cannot respond to spiritual things until God puts the Holy Spirit within him in the new birth. (Eph 2).

 

[ForestGreenCook]

When the jailer asked Paul and Silas, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?", they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved, you and your household." A believer immediately becomes regenerated with a new spiritual birth and automatically receives the promise of his/her eternal life and inheritance in the kingdom of God. Repentance as implied in the Bible means change of mind which we do when we believe the message of the cross.

There is a deliverance (salvation here in time) but believing only comes after we have been born of the Spirit. When we believe in Christ, we are already born of the Spirit in the new birth.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

All you did was muddy up what happened.
The jailer got saved period.
He asked
They told him what to do.
No microscope needed.
Kis
Keep it simple

The only way that the scriptures will harmonize is if you rightly divide the salvation (deliverance) scriptures. We are delivered many times as we live here in this world. Example; When we pray that God will heal an illness that we have, and he does, a deliverance from that illness has just taken place. Many salvation scriptures apply to our deliverance's here on earth.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Believe come from hearing the Word of God.

Like believe something else.

Some body give me electric wheelchair, and battery, but the battery was not on.

My friend interested to buy that wheelchair, so I put the battery.

I put it on but not work, so I google the manual and follow the instruction, it work.

The Word of God is manual how to go to heaven. Believe it and follow the manual like believe the manual how to repair something.

Not only believe this is the manual but if you believe, follow the instruction.

The Bible is indeed an instruction manual, but not instructions on how to get saved eternally. Christ has already taken care of that by his death on the cross. It is however a manual instructing God's elect on how to live their lives here on earth that they may live that good and peaceful life while they live their lives here on earth.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Don't leave out the most important part...................love.....a deep love and desire of the heart to know God and to love Him.

It begins with just deeply desiring to know the TRUTH......Is there a God? If yes, then I want to know Him. Why am I here? Why did He create me? Where is He? Why can't I see Him? Hear Him? Touch Him?

At first our natural man wants to experience God with our natural five senses because that's all he knows. Like Thomas wanting to see and touch Yeshua/Jesus before he would believe that He rose from the dead and is alive. If God cannot be experienced with our natural 5 senses then, we conclude that God does not exist.

However, all these questions arise because God is calling us to Himself.......He wants us to look for Him, diligently. God's heart is calling to our heart............

It will be with our 5 spiritual senses that we encounter God - by the Spirit is how we know God does exist. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God..................Yeshus/Jesus would speak and then say, "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying." Only with our spiritual ears can we hear the Spirit revealing Yeshua/Jesus to us.

The driving force behind our search for God needs to be...........a deep desire..........love. God promised that we would find Him, when we seek Him with ALL our heart.

I believe your post, however, I am not sure you understand the depth of your statements. The natural man as described in 1 Cor 2:14 cannot have an ear to hear spiritual things because he is not of God's sheep until God, by his own will and not man's will, puts the Holy Spirit within him in the new birth (Eph 2).

 

[metanoia]

The only way that the scriptures will harmonize is if you rightly divide the salvation (deliverance) scriptures. We are delivered many times as we live here in this world. Example; When we pray that God will heal an illness that we have, and he does, a deliverance from that illness has just taken place. Many salvation scriptures apply to our deliverance's here on earth.

Eph 2 explains that when we are dead spiritually we cannot respond to spiritual things, such as, believing in Christ. Only God's sheep hear to believe in spiritual things. Spiritually dead people cannot respond to spiritual things until God puts the Holy Spirit within him in the new birth. (Eph 2).

There you go again, always pulling the cart before the horse. Believers become God's sheep (children) when we BELIEVE. Scripture is explicitly clear on that issue. Maybe the reason you can't understand is that you're one of the spiritually dead as you referenced. "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." (1 Cor. 1:18). Based on your belief, you can't honestly know that you were pre-chosen to be one of God's sheep. Whereas, I believe in the truth of God's Holy Word: "He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. And this is the testimony: that God has given eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may KNOW that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:10-13) The Gospel of John states 98 times that the condition for receiving salvation is by believing. I'll take the solid assurance of my salvation through God's word any day of the week over your hope so/maybe so salvation, which is no salvation at all.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

There you go again, always pulling the cart before the horse. Believers become God's sheep (children) when we BELIEVE. Scripture is explicitly clear on that issue. Maybe the reason you can't understand is that you're one of the spiritually dead as you referenced. "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." (1 Cor. 1:18). Based on your belief, you can't honestly know that you were pre-chosen to be one of God's sheep. Whereas, I believe in the truth of God's Holy Word: "He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. And this is the testimony: that God has given eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may KNOW that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:10-13) The Gospel of John states 98 times that the condition for receiving salvation is by believing. I'll take the solid assurance of my salvation through God's word any day of the week over your hope so/maybe so salvation, which is no salvation at all.

I am afraid that you have the cart before the horse. You are so strong in your false doctrine that you quote scripture to fit the way that you have been taught by false preachers. ! Cor 1:18 does not say "being saved" which is present tense, but says "saved" past tense. We were saved in a covenant relationship by Christ's death on the cross. Only God's sheep (regenerate children) can hear his voice and believe it.