Does 1 Corinthians 3:15 REALLY teach that saints who backslide and never repent only forfeit rewards?

[Guojing]

Actually, James is answering the question, “can faith save him?”

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Can faith alone, no works, save a man?

There are 3 main ways to understand James 2.

1. You need to show works after you are saved, to show that your faith is not dead and you are indeed saved.
2. James was talking about justification before man (horizontal relationships) and not justification before God (vertical relationship)
3. James was only writing to the 12 tribes of Israel and hence the Gentile Church is not supposed to take his letter as church doctrine.

Since you are a dispensationalist, I guess you probably lean more towards the third way?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

If this were true ABSOLUTELY EVERY ONE WOULD BE SAVED.

1 TIMOTHY 2
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

But it is only those who obey the Gospel that are saved. Yet you continue on and on promoting your false beliefs. Men love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil.

How are you going to explain John 6:38? Jesus said that all that he died for will be in heaven with him because he would raise all of those he died for up at the last day. Jesus did not die for all mankind, only those that his Father gave him. If you do not interpret the scriptures correctly they will falsely claim that man is responsible for choosing his eternal salvation. 1 Tim 2, the "all men" is the same as "all" should come to repentance" in 2 Pet 3:9. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to US-WARD (notice that Peter includes himself by using the word "us-ward") , not willing that any (Peter is talking to those that have obtained like precious faith-2 Pet 1:1) should PERISH (lose their fellowship with God because they already have eternal life), but that ALL (those who have obtained like precious faith) should come to repentance. All scripture must harmonize or it is not the doctrine that Jesus taught, Even though we have been regenerated and have eternal life, we still do at times yield our bodies to the temptations of our lust of worldly things and must repent to regain our fellowship with God.

 

[Guojing]

How are you going to explain John 6:38? Jesus said that all that he died for will be in heaven with him because he would raise all of those he died for up at the last day. Jesus did not die for all mankind, only those that his Father gave him. If you do not interpret the scriptures correctly they will falsely claim that man is responsible for choosing his eternal salvation. 1 Tim 2, the "all men" is the same as "all" should come to repentance" in 2 Pet 3:9. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to US-WARD (notice that Peter includes himself by using the word "us-ward") , not willing that any (Peter is talking to those that have obtained like precious faith-2 Pet 1:1) should PERISH (lose their fellowship with God because they already have eternal life), but that ALL (those who have obtained like precious faith) should come to repentance. All scripture must harmonize or it is not the doctrine that Jesus taught, Even though we have been regenerated and have eternal life, we still do at times yield our bodies to the temptations of our lust of worldly things and must repent to regain our fellowship with God.

You worship in a reformed church?

 

[John146]

Can that faith save him? NO. What kind of faith is that? Empty profession of faith/dead faith that produces no works. (James 2:14) The kind of faith that remains alone - "barren of works" cannot save and it's not because we are saved by works, but because works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of the kind of faith that does save. Faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation is faith that saves. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

Paul says yes, faith alone saves. Should we go on to good works? Of course, if one is properly discipled. Btw, how much good works prove a man is saved? The ONLY faith that justifies is the faith of Jesus Christ. One simply must believe the gospel of Christ then His faith justifies the believer.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

[John146]

There are 3 main ways to understand James 2.

1. You need to show works after you are saved, to show that your faith is not dead and you are indeed saved.
2. James was talking about justification before man (horizontal relationships) and not justification before God (vertical relationship)
3. James was only writing to the 12 tribes of Israel and hence the Gentile Church is not supposed to take his letter as church doctrine.

Since you are a dispensationalist, I guess you probably lean more towards the third way?

Yes, I take the audience as advertised in James 1:1. Tribulation doctrine for the nation of Israel...patience, perseverance, working your way through without spot, sign gifts return, rich condemned, etc...

 

[mailmandan]

Paul says yes, faith alone saves. Should we go on to good works? Of course, if one is properly discipled. Btw, how much good works prove a man is saved? The ONLY faith that justifies is the faith of Jesus Christ. One simply must believe the gospel of Christ then His faith justifies the believer.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Amen! It's not about, "do I have enough works to prove that I am saved," but do I have the right kind of faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. If we have the right kind of faith, then we are saved and our faith will go on to produce good works. All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful. (Matthew 13:23)

 

[John146]

Amen! It's not about, "do I have enough works to prove that I am saved," but do I have the right kind of faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. If we have the right kind of faith, then we are saved and our faith will go on to produce good works. All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful. (Matthew 13:23)

Ok, then justification before men is out. You agree? Abraham was not justified before men when he offered Isaac as the example James gives.

 

[mailmandan]

Ok, then justification before men is out. You agree? Abraham was not justified before men when he offered Isaac as the example James gives.

Some may argue justification before men, before God or both, yet Abraham was justified in the "sense" that he was "shown to be righteous" when he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22, yet many years before that, Abraham was justified in the "sense" that he was "accounted as righteous" when he believed God in Genesis 15:6.

 

[Guojing]

Yes, I take the audience as advertised in James 1:1. Tribulation doctrine for the nation of Israel...patience, perseverance, working your way through without spot, sign gifts return, rich condemned, etc...

Yeah, as a fellow dispensationalist, I think the key to understanding James chapter 2 is found in Acts 21

17 And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly.

18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.

19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.

20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.

23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;

24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

James insisted that the Jews have to follow the Law, even after the Council in Acts 15, but he is perfectly fine in Gentiles not being under the Law.

I think he will be amused to know that, after all these years, the Gentile church is trying to use his letter to the Jews, which was written even before the events in Acts 15, as church doctrine.

 

[John146]

Some may argue justification before men, before God or both, yet Abraham was justified in the "sense" that he was "shown to be righteous" when he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22, yet many years before that, Abraham was justified in the "sense" that he was "accounted as righteous" when he believed God in Genesis 15:6.

I believe Abraham was made righteous when he simply believed God’s wordback in Ch.15. But, his justification came later when he fulfilled God’s word to offer up Isaac. That’s not what you and I enjoy. We are made righteous and justified the moment we believed the gospel of Christ.

Remember something about Abraham. He was an uncircumcised Gentile in Ch.15, he gets circumcised in Ch.17, then he offers up Isaac in Ch.22. Abraham is used as a dual example.

 

[stonesoffire]

I haven't yet read all the comments. Will get to that later..

I just wondered if anyone has mentioned that Paul is speaking of the ones who build as himself, Apollos, etc....and the building the brothers that they minister truth to?

I read this in the ISV. Am pretty sure the KJV confuses here.

Or am I wrong?

We too would be built on if not one of the 5 fold ministries. We as the congregation.

 

[metanoia]

This 100 %ly lines up with what I believe:

1 Cor. 3:12-14 is talking about the permanent framework of the church and that it must be carefully chosen for endurance. In vs. 13, Paul explains that the Day will declare the validity of each person's work. This is not the Great White Throne Judgment where God will condemn unbelievers. Rather, it is the Judgment Seat of Christ (2 Cor. 5:10), where believers will be evaluated. Test each one's work means that God will see His children as they really are--all their motivations, desires, and reasons for serving Him. Believers will be given rewards based on the quality of their service. Notice that it is not their service that saves. Both the rewarded believer and the believer who suffers loss are saved. Works can never earn salvation. Faithfulness in service, however, will earn the right to give God even greater glory as the faithful lay their rewards at His feet. (Rev. 4:10)

 

[oyster67]

If the son of perdition is lost, then he was not included in those that Christ died for because Jesus said that he would raise them all up at the last day.

Christ died for all, but not all will enter into Heaven. Many are called, but few are chosen.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You worship in a reformed church?

No.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Christ died for all, but not all will enter into Heaven. Many are called, but few are chosen.

What is your interpretation of John 6:38?

 

[Guojing]

No.

Interesting that you are also using concepts in the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith.

 

[oyster67]

What is your interpretation of John 6:38?

John 6
6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
6:36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Things simplify when you include a little context. It is they that cometh and believeth that shall never hunger or thirst. v36 tells us that those who do not believe will not profit from what He did for them. v37 tells us that Jesus will never leave, forsake or cast out anyone; recall the Prodigals Son. His father did not cast him out, he left of his own accord. v38 shows us by example that we must do the will of the Father rather than our own will. v39 reiterates that God is not willing that any should perish. That is because He loves all of us. v40 summarizes it all very well; We must both see and understand who the Son is and what He has done for us, and then we must continue to believe upon Him for our salvation. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to help you.

 

[BibletruthSOP]

Paul says yes, faith alone saves. Should we go on to good works? Of course, if one is properly discipled. Btw, how much good works prove a man is saved? The ONLY faith that justifies is the faith of Jesus Christ. One simply must believe the gospel of Christ then His faith justifies the believer.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Please remember that there is no merit in faith...faith is in Jesus, not in faith!

 

[BibletruthSOP]

Where does one start...there is so much anti bible in this thread. Maybe some understanding of sin will help in understanding the deep need of true heart appreciation for the cross ….heaven emptied itself for our salvation.

Sin, each individual sin, encompasses, has within it, every evil, self centered, thought, word, and deed that has ever been thought, said, and done in the history of humanity.

When we begin to have a realistic sense of sin we can have a realistic sense of the cross. WHAT is it about sin that required THAT?

So sorry for so many in here, but the cross of Christ is not a free get out of jail card. If you would understand the gospel spend some study time with the goal of the gospel verses such as Ephesians 4:13, 1 John 4: 17, Romans 8: 1-2, Romans 12:1-2, and dozens of others.

 

[BibletruthSOP]

The gospel is about salvation....meaning the gospel is about Jesus Christ, our savior and sacrifice, our Lord and intercessor, and our judge/king. Through the Holy Spirit (Christ within), He is the manager of our life, 100%. It is simple lack of faith that a person can come to the belief that the gospel is some kind of make believe system that does not result in actual pardon and power, in justification by faith and full restoration. It is Satan's designed program to deceive....this is how he does it. 1) the law (10 commandments) is abolished. Since many will not believe that, his next step is 2) 1 or more of the 10 commandments has been changed. Many believe that. But not all. His final step is 3) "don't you know you can't stop sinning anyhow". And almost all who are not deceived by 1) and 2) fall for number three. Friends, Jesus is our complete savior, not just from the curse of sin, but also from the power of sin.
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