Speaking in Tongues: Its Origins [Ancient and Modern], Purpose, and Power

[Wansvic]

Also you forgot to mention that the scripture give proof that only when the apostles laid their hand on, people received the Holy Spirit.
So where are the apostles today?
This understanding had also the founders of the cult New Apostolic Church.

The information following was included in the previous post:
Scripture points out that the Holy Ghost can be received with or without the laying on of hands:

"While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word." Acts 10:44

"...how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" Luke 11:13

 

[Wansvic]

You cant give any proof for the samarians and the eunuch from Äthiopia that they spoke in tongues.

My Post #98 in response to your comment:
Acts 8:18 "And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money."

The above scripture expresses that Simon saw something that convinced him that those present had received the Holy Ghost. Nothing is recorded as accompanying the baptism of the Holy Ghost other than speaking in tongues on and after the Day of Pentecost.

If there is no outward evidence of the infilling of the Holy Ghost than there would be nothing to see. There is no question that Simon saw something. It is plausible that what he saw was people speaking in tongues.

The bible records each individual groups, (Jews, Gentiles and Samaritan) obedience to the God inspired instruction to repent, be water baptized in Jesus name and receive the Holy Ghost. Thus, providing a blueprint of what is required of each and every human being after believing in the sacrificial work of Jesus.

The eunuch belonged to one of the above mentioned groups of people. Therefore it was not necessary that his experience reference all three things.

 

[wolfwint]

The information following was included in the previous post:
Scripture points out that the Holy Ghost can be received with or without the laying on of hands:

"While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word." Acts 10:44

"...how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" Luke 11:13

I talking about laying hands on.

 

[wolfwint]

My Post #98 in response to your comment:
Acts 8:18 "And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money."

The above scripture expresses that Simon saw something that convinced him that those present had received the Holy Ghost. Nothing is recorded as accompanying the baptism of the Holy Ghost other than speaking in tongues on and after the Day of Pentecost.

If there is no outward evidence of the infilling of the Holy Ghost than there would be nothing to see. There is no question that Simon saw something. It is plausible that what he saw was people speaking in tongues.

The bible records each individual groups, (Jews, Gentiles and Samaritan) obedience to the God inspired instruction to repent, be water baptized in Jesus name and receive the Holy Ghost. Thus, providing a blueprint of what is required of each and every human being after believing in the sacrificial work of Jesus.

The eunuch belonged to one of the above mentioned groups of people. Therefore it was not necessary that his experience reference all three things.

But you talked about speaking in tongues after the baptism with rhe Holy Spirit

 

[garee]

is this English?

needs translation

or maybe not

I would think all Christians are given a desire to preach the gospel as a new born again desire as that which follows believing .Declaring prophecy is a sign that someone was given ears to hear what the Spirit is saying

Tongues, God brining prophecy as his interpretation in respect to all the nations of the world is one of the many manners he did bring new prophecy when God was still adding to His word. Today we have the perfect sealed up with seven seals till the end of time. The book of prophecy is complete. Why seek after another revelation after any manner to include tongues?

My question would be . What does the sign of tongues (God's word) confirm and who is it in respect to? Should we seek after it?

 

[Wansvic]

I talking about laying hands on.

Notice Peter did not lay hands on the Gentiles. They were filled with the Holy Ghost while Peter preached the gospel.

"While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word." Acts 10:44

 

[garee]

Clearly the Word expresses only portions of events on many occasions. This truth is seen in the fact that the reference to Philip and the eunuch only mentions the eunuch's belief in Jesus and that he was water baptized. Are we then to conclude that he did not repent prior to his water baptism? And there is no evidence supplied concerning whether he had or had not received the baptism of the Holy Ghost prior to the event recorded. Again, one thing is certain from the scripture and that is that he believed in Jesus and was water baptized.
(Acts 8:38)

Scripture points out that the Holy Ghost can be received with or without the laying on of hands:
"While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word." Acts 10:44
"...how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" Luke 11:13

God is not served by human hands "flesh and blood" in any way shape or form . The laying on of hands is a metaphor for the approval of God not seen. He will not share the glory with corrupted flesh or any rudiment of this world . Of Jesus's own flesh he did not hide it profits for nothing.

The water baptism is part of a old testament ceremonial law used when a new priest after the new manner (Melchezedek) as did Christ before he began his ministry setting the way of the new manner as the priesthood of all believers .from any nation. Men and women and children shod with the gospel . Who would then go out into the world with the gospel, two by two. There is no such thing as a "sign gift" confirming some unseen spiritual work. We walk by the gift of Christ's faith that lives in us working with us to both will and do His good pleasure of faith

 

[Wansvic]

But you talked about speaking in tongues after the baptism with rhe Holy Spirit

I understand that the Word does not literally state those present spoke in tongues. But, it is implied. Because the record indicates that Simon saw something. If there is no outward evidence of the infilling of the Holy Ghost than there would be nothing to see.

Again, it is plausible that what he saw was people speaking in tongues.

 

[wolfwint]

I understand that the Word does not literally state those present spoke in tongues. But, it is implied. Because the record indicates that Simon saw something. If there is no outward evidence of the infilling of the Holy Ghost than there would be nothing to see.

Again, it is plausible that what he saw was people speaking in tongues.

Thats pure your assumprionbut mo proof. Whom i should believe? To you ore to the scripture? You cant claim something is happend without proof.
If so, then you can claime everything as true. Like others did for to justify their view.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thats pure your assumprionbut mo proof. Whom i should believe? To you ore to the scripture? You cant claim something is happend without proof.
If so, then you can claime everything as true. Like others did for to justify their view.

If your talking about when the gentiles were saved. One must remember, peter did not really believe a gentile could get what he had. He even later admitted this when he said, Who am I to withstand that they receieved the same gift we did..

God used extremes like this and in acts 2 because he used them as sign to the the jews in acts 2. And peter in acts 10 so they would believe.

It was not the norm however.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

If your talking about when the gentiles were saved. One must remember, peter did not really believe a gentile could get what he had. He even later admitted this when he said, Who am I to withstand that they receieved the same gift we did..
God used extremes like this and in acts 2 because he used them as sign to the the jews in acts 2. And peter in acts 10 so they would believe.
It was not the norm however.

It was not the norm however.

The above statement is just a projection and speculation
The church in Corinth had no problems speaking in tongues so Paul's testimony suggests
that all the churches he led were similar in their showing the gifts.

But of course admitting this is the spiritual reality of ministry is just one step too far.
It was Corinth that was out of control, which needed more guidance on this subject,
with supposes the other fellowships did not have such issues.

God bless you

 

[Wansvic]

Thats pure your assumprionbut mo proof. Whom i should believe? To you ore to the scripture? You cant claim something is happend without proof.
If so, then you can claime everything as true. Like others did for to justify their view.

All Christians are told to build up themselves praying in the Holy Ghost. (this is not the spiritual gift of tongues-because not all operate in that gift):
"But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." Jude 20-21

As Paul says,
"For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God:..."1 Cor 14:2

"He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;" (1 Cor 14:4)

 

[wolfwint]

I understand that the Word does not literally state those present spoke in tongues. But, it is implied. Because the record indicates that Simon saw something. If there is no outward evidence of the infilling of the Holy Ghost than there would be nothing to see.

Again, it is plausible that what he saw was people speaking in tongues.

We are speaking from acts 8, and there is nothing written from talking in tongues as you claimed before. As sign for receiving the Holy Spirit through Peter.
What you wrote is an pure asumption without scripture proof.

 

[wolfwint]

All Christians are told to build up themselves praying in the Holy Ghost. (this is not the spiritual gift of tongues-because not all operate in that gift):
"But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." Jude 20-21

As Paul says,
"For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God:..."1 Cor 14:2

"He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;" (1 Cor 14:4)

You are coming from one point to another, without giving answer to the first one.
You claimed that the Samarians spoke in tongues in acts 8, without giving any scripture proof, but only a personal assumtion.please give scripture proof.

 

[wolfwint]

If your talking about when the gentiles were saved. One must remember, peter did not really believe a gentile could get what he had. He even later admitted this when he said, Who am I to withstand that they receieved the same gift we did..

God used extremes like this and in acts 2 because he used them as sign to the the jews in acts 2. And peter in acts 10 so they would believe.

It was not the norm however.

Hi EG i wrote about acts 8

 

[Wansvic]

You are coming from one point to another, without giving answer to the first one.
You claimed that the Samarians spoke in tongues in acts 8, without giving any scripture proof, but only a personal assumtion.please give scripture proof.

My reason for pointing out Jude 20 is that the comment is made to Christians of which group the Samaritans would be after their experience in Acts 8:
"But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost," Jude 20.

We see that praying in the Holy Ghost involves speaking in tongues.

Eph 6:18
"Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit."

1 Cor 14:15
"What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also."

Also, it is understood that a concept is established by 2 or 3 witnesses in the Word. It is recorded specifically that speaking in tongues accompanied the baptism of the Holy Ghost on at least two occasions.

 

[garee]

All Christians are told to build up themselves praying in the Holy Ghost. (this is not the spiritual gift of tongues-because not all operate in that gift):
"But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." Jude 20-21

As Paul says,
"For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God:..."1 Cor 14:2

"He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;" (1 Cor 14:4)

All Christians are told to build up themselves praying in the Holy Ghost. (this is the spiritual gift of tongues that we can pray as he gives us his interpretation tongues (the word of God spoken in all the languages of the world) .Because all operate in that gift called hearing God.

Search for the meaning of the law as the doctrine of tongues and as a sign what does it confirm and who does it point to .Then the rest of the doctrine falls into place, right side up.

Why promote the passages below as those used as a sign of unbelief in any nation and see no evil in doing so. ?

As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee.But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil Jeremiah 44:16-17

 

[wolfwint]

My reason for pointing out Jude 20 is that the comment is made to Christians of which group the Samaritans would be after their experience in Acts 8:
"But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost," Jude 20.

We see that praying in the Holy Ghost involves speaking in tongues.

Eph 6:18
"Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit."

1 Cor 14:15
"What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also."

Also, it is understood that a concept is established by 2 or 3 witnesses in the Word. It is recorded specifically that speaking in tongues accompanied the baptism of the Holy Ghost on at least two occasions.

Come on, this has nothing to do with your claim that the samarians spoke in tongues after receiving thr Holy Spirit through the Apostl.
You just looking for verses which could fit to your claim.
You simply take the word out of context and give him a new meaning.
Praying in the Spirit has nothing to do with speaking/praying in tongues. Every born again believer is able to pray in the Spirit.

 

[Wansvic]

Come on, this has nothing to do with your claim that the samarians spoke in tongues after receiving thr Holy Spirit through the Apostl.
You just looking for verses which could fit to your claim.
You simply take the word out of context and give him a new meaning.
Praying in the Spirit has nothing to do with speaking/praying in tongues. Every born again believer is able to pray in the Spirit.

I am not avoiding your comment about the Samaritans I addressed that in my post #108 to you as follows:
"I understand that the Word does not literally state those present spoke in tongues. But, it is implied. Because the record indicates that Simon saw something. If there is no outward evidence of the infilling of the Holy Ghost than there would be nothing to see.
Again, it is plausible that what he saw was people speaking in tongues."

Afterward, I posted scriptures that show Christians were encouraged to pray in the Spirit. (speak in tongues)

We know that praying in the Spirit is praying in an unknown tongue because the Apostle Paul make this clear in 1 Cor 14:14 and then goes on to explain that he prays in tongues that he does not understand and also prays with understanding as well:

"For if I (Paul) pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also." 1 Cor 14:14-15

 

[Wansvic]

All Christians are told to build up themselves praying in the Holy Ghost. (this is the spiritual gift of tongues that we can pray as he gives us his interpretation tongues (the word of God spoken in all the languages of the world) .Because all operate in that gift called hearing God.

Search for the meaning of the law as the doctrine of tongues and as a sign what does it confirm and who does it point to .Then the rest of the doctrine falls into place, right side up.

Why promote the passages below as those used as a sign of unbelief in any nation and see no evil in doing so. ?

As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee.But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil Jeremiah 44:16-17

The Word must be rightly divided. The following scripture refers to the prayer language received upon the infilling of the Holy Ghost:
"But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." Jude 20-21
Praying in the Spirit:
1 Cor 14:4
He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself

1 Cor 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.