Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
So have you COMPLETELY STOPPED SINNING? 
In 1 John 2:1, we read - My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. Does "STOP SINNING = if anyone sins."
Those who teach sinless perfection have also abused the words of Jesus in John 8:11, in which He tells the woman caught in adultery, "go and sin no more." Jesus was telling her to go and leave her life of sin. She had been practicing adultery. Sinless perfection is not being taught here. *Jesus cannot compromise his perfect holy standard, so of course He is not going to say, "go and just sin a little bit."
In 1 John 2:1, we read - My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. Does "STOP SINNING = if anyone sins."
Those who teach sinless perfection have also abused the words of Jesus in John 8:11, in which He tells the woman caught in adultery, "go and sin no more." Jesus was telling her to go and leave her life of sin. She had been practicing adultery. Sinless perfection is not being taught here. *Jesus cannot compromise his perfect holy standard, so of course He is not going to say, "go and just sin a little bit."
-
5
-
1
- Show all
You continuously judge and condemn believers, so don't be a hypocrite. So according to YOU, the Pharisees along with many other people in various false religions and cults who twist the scriptures and pervert the gospel obey God?
LET GOD BE TRUE and every man a liar...
...For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account. Hebrews 4:12-13
...All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16-17
Here's who the HYPOCRITES are...
...He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you HYPOCRITES; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’ You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them: “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”
...STOP TWISTING GOD'S WORD...
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Good works done outside Christ
A good work is done by many people to aid another, to be a good citizen, to show love
and support to others. But are such good works good in reference to God?
Do they bring glory to Him and recognise His blessing, empowerment, foundation?
If yes, then they are good, because they bring glory to Christ, but if the lie and
detract from the creator, setting in opposition to reality another way, they are sinful.
For the individual, people do good deeds, but find the cost does not help them, rather
it detracts from who they are, as is giving and not receiving so their hearts cry out a waste
of time.
Believers acting in the world. Believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, purified and made
whole, so the very deeds they do, they do in Christ. So all the good they share, it is Christ
in them sharing it. As these deeds reflect the very heart of God, they are truly good.
A good work is done by many people to aid another, to be a good citizen, to show love
and support to others. But are such good works good in reference to God?
Do they bring glory to Him and recognise His blessing, empowerment, foundation?
If yes, then they are good, because they bring glory to Christ, but if the lie and
detract from the creator, setting in opposition to reality another way, they are sinful.
For the individual, people do good deeds, but find the cost does not help them, rather
it detracts from who they are, as is giving and not receiving so their hearts cry out a waste
of time.
Believers acting in the world. Believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, purified and made
whole, so the very deeds they do, they do in Christ. So all the good they share, it is Christ
in them sharing it. As these deeds reflect the very heart of God, they are truly good.
when any group—Catholic or otherwise, regardless of what banner they choose to march under—switches the primary emphasis of Scripture from the Pauline doctrine of justification as a gracious gift from Christ conditioned only by faith, to justification as a reward for following the earthly teachings of our Lord (no matter how faithfully), the honest person is compelled to despair.
The stern precepts of the Sermon on the Mount are to be preached, not as a tortuous pathway to salvation, as in Monasticism, nor as a teaching around which to form a semi-ascetic community, as in Anabaptism. The Sermon is to be preached in all of its rigors to destroy any hopes of self-righteousness .
"Philip Janowsky
The stern precepts of the Sermon on the Mount are to be preached, not as a tortuous pathway to salvation, as in Monasticism, nor as a teaching around which to form a semi-ascetic community, as in Anabaptism. The Sermon is to be preached in all of its rigors to destroy any hopes of self-righteousness .
"Philip Janowsky
-
2
- Show all
What do you mean? We should ignore the Sermon, or just assume it says we can not aspire to
any of these notions or we should put them into practice?
I suspect this is following the everything is hopeless, we should just trust Jesus.
I suggest we should put it all into action because we know Jesus at a deep emotional level
and these changes are music to our souls.
any of these notions or we should put them into practice?
I suspect this is following the everything is hopeless, we should just trust Jesus.
I suggest we should put it all into action because we know Jesus at a deep emotional level
and these changes are music to our souls.
What do you mean? We should ignore the Sermon, or just assume it says we can not aspire to
any of these notions or we should put them into practice?
I suspect this is following the everything is hopeless, we should just trust Jesus.
I suggest we should put it all into action because we know Jesus at a deep emotional level
and these changes are music to our souls.
any of these notions or we should put them into practice?
I suspect this is following the everything is hopeless, we should just trust Jesus.
I suggest we should put it all into action because we know Jesus at a deep emotional level
and these changes are music to our souls.
-
1
- Show all
I am not sure why you say the above. Jesus said this
24 Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.
Matt 7:24-25
Do you know what the Kingdom actually is, or what being born again means or even
dying to self and living to God?
I lived in a family who talk like you do, it is all show and no reality, except Jesus is reality
and knew the heart of people. The Kingdom is about our hearts, being cleansed and true
to the love God placed there. If you knew this you would know why the sermon on the mount
is the words of life and not "sustain my glory" which is total nonsense.
If Jesus our Lord and Saviour says put the words into practice, you might realise it is a good
thing to do. God bless you.
By the way walking in righteousness is true freedom, because you know you bring life and love
to people who are scared and alone, a real hope in this world of darkness.
24 Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.
Matt 7:24-25
Do you know what the Kingdom actually is, or what being born again means or even
dying to self and living to God?
I lived in a family who talk like you do, it is all show and no reality, except Jesus is reality
and knew the heart of people. The Kingdom is about our hearts, being cleansed and true
to the love God placed there. If you knew this you would know why the sermon on the mount
is the words of life and not "sustain my glory" which is total nonsense.
If Jesus our Lord and Saviour says put the words into practice, you might realise it is a good
thing to do. God bless you.
By the way walking in righteousness is true freedom, because you know you bring life and love
to people who are scared and alone, a real hope in this world of darkness.
Someone told me that I gave the gospel not because I believed the words but because I was taught them.
It was very odd, the reverse of the aspirations of those who instituted the saying of these words.
But you cannot make people part of the Kingdom by ritual repeating of words, they have to know what
they mean and why they feel so estranged to them. To them Jesus did not die, face to face, shedding His
blood, having His body wiped and drained, it was a distant transaction, for some God debt afar off, which
now has placed them in the heavenlies where they will dwell eternally.
Value, giving and receiving, helping and encouraging others is something they do not do or know,
carrying their cross, being vulnerable and bearing hurts and blows in forgiveness is an alien world.
But in truth, if this is where their heart is, they do not know Jesus.
How one can be so close to such eternal realities and never know them, makes you realise spiritual
realities are only known to the elect, those who have entered by the gate and known our Lord, Amen.
It was very odd, the reverse of the aspirations of those who instituted the saying of these words.
But you cannot make people part of the Kingdom by ritual repeating of words, they have to know what
they mean and why they feel so estranged to them. To them Jesus did not die, face to face, shedding His
blood, having His body wiped and drained, it was a distant transaction, for some God debt afar off, which
now has placed them in the heavenlies where they will dwell eternally.
Value, giving and receiving, helping and encouraging others is something they do not do or know,
carrying their cross, being vulnerable and bearing hurts and blows in forgiveness is an alien world.
But in truth, if this is where their heart is, they do not know Jesus.
How one can be so close to such eternal realities and never know them, makes you realise spiritual
realities are only known to the elect, those who have entered by the gate and known our Lord, Amen.
I recognize this argument (which I believe is likely in response to my Post #95,293); I've posted my study on that verse/passage in the past (doubt I could find it now ), perhaps you could give it some consideration. Here is a brief portion of it:
[quoting that post]
"[Response to the idea that Heb9:28 refers to how Jesus only comes at His Second Coming to the earth, not a separate time for our Rapture--But Heb9:28 refers to neither of these...]
"From Hebrews 9:28 (where the "passive" form of G3708 ['appear'] is used)... out of the 684 usages of "G3708" [used here], TEN times that "[G3708] appear [PASSIVE]" is used regarding Jesus, and ALL TEN of them refer to AFTER His death/resurrection (and it was only to carefully chosen witnesses, not to every person everywhere)"
[end quoting]
So the FIRST time Jesus "appeared [G3708--passive]" was not referring to His earthly ministry BEFORE His death (but [ALL] AFTER His death and resurrection), so the "SECOND time" is not referring to what the "pre-trib-rapture-deniers" claim it refers to--->(when He will be seen by ALL who are on the earth at that time [after the trib], and not just those "that look for Him"--but, recall, I am not saying that this refers to our [pre-trib] Rapture either ). A different word is used when speaking of another "FIRST" time He "appeared" [also following His resurrection]
), perhaps you could give it some consideration. Here is a brief portion of it:[quoting that post]
"[Response to the idea that Heb9:28 refers to how Jesus only comes at His Second Coming to the earth, not a separate time for our Rapture--But Heb9:28 refers to neither of these...]
"From Hebrews 9:28 (where the "passive" form of G3708 ['appear'] is used)... out of the 684 usages of "G3708" [used here], TEN times that "[G3708] appear [PASSIVE]" is used regarding Jesus, and ALL TEN of them refer to AFTER His death/resurrection (and it was only to carefully chosen witnesses, not to every person everywhere)"
[end quoting]
So the FIRST time Jesus "appeared [G3708--passive]" was not referring to His earthly ministry BEFORE His death (but [ALL] AFTER His death and resurrection), so the "SECOND time" is not referring to what the "pre-trib-rapture-deniers" claim it refers to--->(when He will be seen by ALL who are on the earth at that time [after the trib], and not just those "that look for Him"--but, recall, I am not saying that this refers to our [pre-trib] Rapture either
). A different word is used when speaking of another "FIRST" time He "appeared" [also following His resurrection]