A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

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TruthTalk said:
Thank you UnderGrace, your experience makes me confident that, "not pursuing the gift of tongues" was the right decision for me. I love to learn about world languages and so I began to learn my wife's family language which is Thai and the Thai language is rooted in "Sanskrit", (5000 years old).

My biblical discipleship taught me that our eternal salvation is not contingent on a "second baptism" we are all made to drink from one Spirit. And if someone teaches that you need a "second baptism" to be saved then I believe that is not true. I honestly do not mean to offend anyone but the first baptism was sufficient to save that's all. Thank you for your post.....
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1 Corinthians 12:13
For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body--whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink

1. Sanskrit (5000 years old).
2. Hebrew (3000 years old).
3. Greek (2900 years old).
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This is not water baptism.,
 
UnderGrace said:
Are you saying there was no grace prior to the coming of Jesus?
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If you ask me that then you have not read my posts on the works thread.

That grace (OT) is unmerited. Said to be when the superior bends a knee in kindness to inferior. Word studies are helpful. NT grace is the divine influence upon the heart with its reflection in the life, including gratitude.
 
stonesoffire said:
Lol...you did the same Dcon. No one can go to heaven unless born again of Spirit. That's the difference between old and new. The Jews called repentance and turning to God with a whole heart born again.

Jesus brought a new dispensation. Grace. The power of Holy Spirit within men. Putting to death the nature of sin by the Cross of Jesus. Raised up in ressurection power. The prophets of old plus the angels would love to know what we have been given. Or similar words.

I won't budge on this.
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I disagree....where did Elijah and Enoch go?.....you're not right on this one Stones!
 
stonesoffire said:
If you ask me that then you have not read my posts on the works thread.

That grace (OT) is unmerited. Said to be when the superior bends a knee in kindness to inferior. Word studies are helpful. NT grace is the divine influence upon the heart with its reflection in the life, including gratitude.
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The church/ekklesia has always been one, under various administrations, under types, shadows and now under the reality of Christ Jesus, the object of faith has always been one. Christ Jesus was the object of faith of the typological church please see Hebrews 11 and always remains the object of faith.

We have the fulfillment, but we have the same Christ, the same grace, the same covenant of grace. There are real differences of administration but one covenant of grace.

The covenant with Abraham has just been expanded in the new testament to include the gentiles.
 
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dcontroversal said:
I disagree....where did Elijah and Enoch go?.....you're not right on this one Stones!
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I think paradise. But, I don't know for sure.

John 3:13 "No one has gone up to heaven except the one who came down from heaven, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
 
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stonesoffire said:
Holy Spirit within was not until Jesus resurrected. You are taking scripture out of context.
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The Spirit of God rested upon all the OT saints and patriarchs. NT saints have now an eternal presence of the Holy Spirit. Read the OT about Saul having the Spirit of God depart from him and understand that the Spirit of God OT is the Holy Spirit in the NT.

OT Jews spoke about God but their hearts were far from God. They thought they were doing God a service yet God knew their hearts and said they were apostate and not serving Him but serving themselves.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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dcontroversal said:
The grace of God that brings salvation has shined upon ALL MEN....you're not right Stones....alll is conclusIve of ALL
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Exactly...

Jesus spoke of the new birth (John 3:3, 5), which is a reference to regeneration.
And He indicated that Nicodemus should have known about the new birth (John 3:11), evidently from the teachings of the Old Testament (OT).
This proves that the concept of regeneration clearly does occur before the cross and that contradicts this argument.
 
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UnderGrace said:
The church/ekklesia has always been one, under various administrations, under types, shadows and now under the reality of Christ Jesus, the object of faith has always been one. Christ Jesus was the object of faith of the typological church please see Hebrews 11 and always remains the object of faith.

We have the fulfillment, but we have the same Christ, the same grace, the same covenant of grace. There are real differences of administration but one covenant of grace.

The covenant with Abraham has just been expanded in the new testament to include the gentiles.
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One question. When did the church begin?

I just posted the two definitions of grace. The body of Christ has both.

We were discussing the OT prophets compared to the NT.
 
notuptome said:
The Spirit of God rested upon all the OT saints and patriarchs. NT saints have now an eternal presence of the Holy Spirit. Read the OT about Saul having the Spirit of God depart from him and understand that the Spirit of God OT is the Holy Spirit in the NT.

OT Jews spoke about God but their hearts were far from God. They thought they were doing God a service yet God knew their hearts and said they were apostate and not serving Him but serving themselves.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Well Roger, tell it all to Dcon for that is exactly what I've been saying. Fancy that that we could agree.
 
UnderGrace said:
Exactly...

Jesus spoke of the new birth (John 3:3, 5), which is a reference to regeneration.
And He indicated that Nicodemus should have known about the new birth (John 3:11), evidently from the teachings of the Old Testament (OT).
This proves that the concept of regeneration clearly does occur before the cross and that contradicts this argument.
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No, it doesn't. Otherwise they would not have baptized so often.
 
stonesoffire said:
I think paradise. But, I don't know for sure.

John 3:13 "No one has gone up to heaven except the one who came down from heaven, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
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See now I posted scripture that refutes what you said Dcon, but did you acknowledge it?
 
stonesoffire said:
I think paradise. But, I don't know for sure.

John 3:13 "No one has gone up to heaven except the one who came down from heaven, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
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Take it up with God Stones....Elijah was taken up into heaven.....and the context is the words of Jesus is a man ascending into heaven of his own will like Christ did in Acts...
 
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