And whosoever does not bear his cross, and come after Me, cannot be My disciple
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Luke 14
24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.
25 And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them,
26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Seem to me Jesus set up a standard to be save.
Is this standard inconsistent with john 3:16?
John 3:16 say whosoever believe will save, now it say must bear his cross.
To me it is consistence.
You have to believe, believe what? Believe His instruction.
And one of His instruction is bear your cross.
What about if I do not want to bear my cross?
According to that verse, I can not be His disciple
Is that mean not save? I think so, if I am not His disciple I am not save.
How have you be taught to deny yourself; pick up your cross daily and follow Jesus?
Denying self is denying ones rights and privilege. The cross is the unfair punishment for crimes
not commited but taken on willingly and also forgiven.
So someone hits you in the face. You turn the other. They take you job, your wealth, your family,
and you say God bless you. Because the cross is not about us who are in heaven and secure but
for the lost and those who are slaves to this world the status they crave above anything else, yet
it will kill them.
Jesus is saying simply this is the Kingdom and its ways. It is about seeing beyond the mortal
world to the world of eternity, and fighting for that reality and truth, by bearing the burdens of
others and showing them the path to salvation
Where the only labor there for us, is to labor to enter the rest (Hebrews 4:11)
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
This is the new law to believe not fall after example of unbelief.
A law is a rule
Example of law or rule:
To be save you must believe in Jesus
We are under this law isn't it?
Why you say we are not under the law?
Are we being tested?...oh well,
Matthew 26:39 (KJV) And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
It's a daily 'thang'.
Oops, I didn't see the last part 'to stay saved'. We do those things because we are already saved.
You don't stay saved, either Jesus died for your sins or He didn't. The message of the cross is that Jesus died for our sins once and for all and that we are now a new creation in Christ and are comforted and guided by the Holy Spirit in the life-long repentance process. One doesn't lose salvation because in the bible it explicitly states that Jesus has not loss one that the Father has given unto Him.
Believe in Jesus.
We can learn from the example of Peter, who denied Jesus three times. When it came to the crunch, despite decalring tht Jesus is the christ, he later said he didnt even know Jesus when a girl asked him, in order to save his own skin...
And he didnt want to follow Jesus to the cross, and when Jesus told him he was going to be crucified, Peter was like no..! However, it was necessary, and so Jesus told him why he needed to go to the cross.
Later Peter did repent and Jesus forgave him. PEter did not stop following Jesus but he had to deny his own desires first. Family couldnt keep him back or what other people thought of him. He had to learn that.
We can learn from the example of Peter, who denied Jesus three times. When it came to the crunch, despite decalring tht Jesus is the christ, he later said he didnt even know Jesus when a girl asked him, in order to save his own skin...
And he didnt want to follow Jesus to the cross, and when Jesus told him he was going to be crucified, Peter was like no..! However, it was necessary, and so Jesus told him why he needed to go to the cross.
Later Peter did repent and Jesus forgave him. PEter did not stop following Jesus but he had to deny his own desires first. Family couldnt keep him back or what other people thought of him. He had to learn that.
(I will answer just ignoring the "to stay saved" part: I don't do deeds to stay saved, but because I am saved.)
The cross was the place of execution - where you died! I think it means first of all that I am willing to (and in fact do it!) put my physical life at risk for the kingdom of God.
For myself denying myself means spending quality time in prayer and intercession, fasting, solitude, worship, serving others, etc.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Rev. 3
As you have read, it is possible.
The only way to God is through Jesus Christ (John 14:6)...the only way to Jesus Christ is by the Means of the Cross (Luke 14:27). The only way to the Cross is a denial of self (Luke 9:23). If any person tries to come any other way, Jesus says, "they are a thief and a robber" (John 10:1).
Once you have confessed your sins, the penalty for your sins which was paid in full by the shed blood of Jesus dying on the cross, and inviting the Holy Spirit to live in your heart to comfort and guide you in the life-long repentance process leading to sanctification, you have already overcometh. You will be clothed in white rainment and Jesus will not blot out your name in the book of life but rather confess your name to the Father before the angels.
It seems that we are not on the same page in this all important spiritual point but regardless, your name will remain in the book of life and Jesus will be your advocate confessing your name to the Father. Your denial of self is the result of the Holy Spirit living in your heart and guiding you to your final destination.
I agree with the scripture that you provided but don't see that as evidence that one can lose their salvation once it's obtained. Jesus Himself stated in scripture that He has not lost a single one that the Father has given unto him. Just based on the one reference alone I would conclude that we are always safe and secure in our salvation. There is no reason to live in fear brother because Jesus said "Fear not".
For My Flesh is meat indeed, and My Blood is drink indeed (the idea is that one must continue eating and drinking even on a daily basis, which speaks of bearing the Cross daily [Lk. 9:23]).
As far as trying to do something as it concerns taking up the Cross daily, we are to do nothing. In fact, it was already done at Calvary some two thousand years ago. On a daily basis, we should reinforce our Faith in Christ and what He has done for us at the Cross (Rom. 6:3-5; 8:2, Gal. 2:20-21, Col. 2:10-15). This is the "Truth" which we must learn, act upon, and continue to act upon, which guarantees the help of the Holy Spirit.
He who eats My Flesh, and drinks My Blood, dwells in Me, and I in him (the only way that one can dwell in Christ and Christ in him, which guarantees a victorious, overcoming life, is for the Cross to ever be the Object of Faith and, as stated, on a daily basis). John 6:55-56
Question? Based on the following scripture (John 6:66) below are these people who are called Disciples still saved in John 6:66?
John 6:53 - "Except you eat the Flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His Blood, you have no life in you," (presents the demand that caused "many of His Disciples to go back, and walk no more with Him" (John 6:66). It does the same presently! This Verse tells us the degree of believing that is required; it refers to the Cross being the total Object of one's belief; failing that, there is no Life in you).
John 6:66 - From that time many of His Disciples went back, and walk no more with Him.
JSM
Luke 9:23 - And He said to them all, If any man will come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.
Denial of self is recognizing my moral and spiritual poverty; for I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwells no good thing (Romans 7:18). It is knowing and understanding that I am unable to serve God in my own will power, self-will, strength, ability, and power. We see this in the first three "Beatitudes."
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:3
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Matthew 5:4
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Matthew 5:5
Take up his cross is seen in Matthew 5:6; Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
I am filled by God's provisions (GRACE) found in Christ by placing my Faith exclusively in Christ and Him Crucified (Believing who Jesus is, and what Jesus has done). Therefore I receive all the benefits of this "Resurrection Life" by understanding that we have been planted together [Christ and ourselves] in the likeness of His Death [Romans 6:5, Psalm 103:2].
Romans 8:13, Zechariah 4:6 - Without Jesus you can do nothing (John 15:5)!!!!!
Without the knowledge of the Cross for sanctification, you will die (spiritually).
Pastor David Borg - JSM
Denial of self is recognizing my moral and spiritual poverty; for I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwells no good thing (Romans 7:18). It is knowing and understanding that I am unable to serve God in my own will power, self-will, strength, ability, and power. We see this in the first three "Beatitudes."
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:3
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Matthew 5:4
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Matthew 5:5
Take up his cross is seen in Matthew 5:6; Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
I am filled by God's provisions (GRACE) found in Christ by placing my Faith exclusively in Christ and Him Crucified (Believing who Jesus is, and what Jesus has done). Therefore I receive all the benefits of this "Resurrection Life" by understanding that we have been planted together [Christ and ourselves] in the likeness of His Death [Romans 6:5, Psalm 103:2].
Romans 8:13, Zechariah 4:6 - Without Jesus you can do nothing (John 15:5)!!!!!
Without the knowledge of the Cross for sanctification, you will die (spiritually).
Pastor David Borg - JSM
I would say the answer is no because it is apparent to me that they were not been born-again otherwise they would abide in Him and continue to walk with Him on their spiritual journey.
Notice: The Holy Spirit said they were saved because they are called Disciples. They walked no more with Him. This is why Jesus said FEW are saved (Matthew 7:14).
Perhaps some will enter heaven by the skin of their teeth. I believe that it says this in the bible somewhere