Speaking in Tongues: Its Origins [Ancient and Modern], Purpose, and Power
- Thread starter MadHermit
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Speaking in tongues was a gift given, a sign, given (Isaiah 28:11) during the laying of the foundation of the Church (Hebrews 2:4). It was a sign to the Jews (Acts 2:6). Speaking in tongues has served God's purpose, God has given the sign (1Cor 14:21), and God has laid the foundation (Eph 2:20). Speaking in tongues by the Gentiles showed the Jews that God granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life (Acts 11:18). Tongue speakers spoke mysteries (1 Cor 14:2); consequently, the mystery of the gospel has been given (Eph 6:19). Speaking in tongues is the language of angels (1 Cor 13:1), angels minister to humans (Hebrews 1:14). Humans are to understand speaking in tongues in earthly languages (Acts 2:6, 11). Speaking in tongues would be “stilled” (1 Cor 13:8).
The believers in the Bible times who spoke in tongues, they spoke in tongues supernaturally. The believers who supposedly speak in tongues nowadays, they speak gibberish and believe God turns their gibberish into supernatural language, and that is a false doctrine.
The believers in the Bible times who spoke in tongues, they spoke in tongues supernaturally. The believers who supposedly speak in tongues nowadays, they speak gibberish and believe God turns their gibberish into supernatural language, and that is a false doctrine.
-
1
- Show all
This should be good.
Maybe you could start with the fact that there is absolutely nothing a modern tongues-speaker is doing that cannot be explained in relatively easy linguistic terms. A few examples - Why is it that the phonemes (individual sounds) of a given person's "tongue" will only contain those sounds found in that person's native language (or any other language they may have had contact with)? Why is it that any sound combinations (mainly consonant clusters) that are disallowed in the speaker's native language are also disallowed in their "tongue"? Why is there only very simple vowel contrasts and syllable structure? Why does modern tongues have no morphemes ( thus devoid of grammar)? Why is it that no two speakers will ever have the same "tongue"? If tongues are a heavenly language - why would there ever be a need to have more than just one? Why would each individual speaker have their own?
In order for something to be 'language' regardless of whether it's spoken somewhere here on earth, an alien planet, or on the spiritual plane (i.e. a so-called 'heavenly' or 'angelic' language) it must contain certain elements that make it 'language' - modern tongues contains absolutely none of these elements. Modern tongues (NOT the 'tongues experience') is an entirely self-created phenomenon; it is non-cognitive, non-language utterance. In contrast, when it comes to something spoken, there are absolutely no Biblical references to “tongues” that do not refer to, and cannot be explained in light of, real rational language(s).
It has nothing to do with being a so-called ‘cessationist’ nor a ‘continuationist’ – as I've mentioned n previous posts, frankly, I do not identify with either term; in fact, I had never heard the two terms until just late in 2016. Cessationist vs, non-cessationist is a bit of a false dichotomy; gifts ceasing is mentioned only once in one short sentence and the remainder of the Bible is totally silent on the matter. The one place it is mentioned is rarely taken into context of the entire passage. As far as I’m concerned, quite frankly, since the Biblical reference of “tongues” is to real, rational languages, obviously “tongues” haven’t “ceased”; people still speak.
Maybe you could start with the fact that there is absolutely nothing a modern tongues-speaker is doing that cannot be explained in relatively easy linguistic terms. A few examples - Why is it that the phonemes (individual sounds) of a given person's "tongue" will only contain those sounds found in that person's native language (or any other language they may have had contact with)? Why is it that any sound combinations (mainly consonant clusters) that are disallowed in the speaker's native language are also disallowed in their "tongue"? Why is there only very simple vowel contrasts and syllable structure? Why does modern tongues have no morphemes ( thus devoid of grammar)? Why is it that no two speakers will ever have the same "tongue"? If tongues are a heavenly language - why would there ever be a need to have more than just one? Why would each individual speaker have their own?
In order for something to be 'language' regardless of whether it's spoken somewhere here on earth, an alien planet, or on the spiritual plane (i.e. a so-called 'heavenly' or 'angelic' language) it must contain certain elements that make it 'language' - modern tongues contains absolutely none of these elements. Modern tongues (NOT the 'tongues experience') is an entirely self-created phenomenon; it is non-cognitive, non-language utterance. In contrast, when it comes to something spoken, there are absolutely no Biblical references to “tongues” that do not refer to, and cannot be explained in light of, real rational language(s).
It has nothing to do with being a so-called ‘cessationist’ nor a ‘continuationist’ – as I've mentioned n previous posts, frankly, I do not identify with either term; in fact, I had never heard the two terms until just late in 2016. Cessationist vs, non-cessationist is a bit of a false dichotomy; gifts ceasing is mentioned only once in one short sentence and the remainder of the Bible is totally silent on the matter. The one place it is mentioned is rarely taken into context of the entire passage. As far as I’m concerned, quite frankly, since the Biblical reference of “tongues” is to real, rational languages, obviously “tongues” haven’t “ceased”; people still speak.
-
1
- Show all
I agree.
I occasionally jump in and 'poke the beast,' so to speak(God forgive me!), but I've learned that the stronghold of traditions of men that perpetuates some erroneous beliefs isn't something I, or any other, can overcome by reasoning with them. Those addicted to personal experience aren't willing to let that go easily. The mentality of such can be summed up by statements like, "I proudly speak in the tongues of men and angels." When I read something like that, I realize that someone who actually thinks that there are angel languages, and that there is some reason to speak in such-is beyond any help or counsel any mere human can give them. Then I remember Proverbs 16:18. I remember then that the best I can do for them is to occasionally exhort them with the truth, and pray for them continually.
I occasionally jump in and 'poke the beast,' so to speak(God forgive me!), but I've learned that the stronghold of traditions of men that perpetuates some erroneous beliefs isn't something I, or any other, can overcome by reasoning with them. Those addicted to personal experience aren't willing to let that go easily. The mentality of such can be summed up by statements like, "I proudly speak in the tongues of men and angels." When I read something like that, I realize that someone who actually thinks that there are angel languages, and that there is some reason to speak in such-is beyond any help or counsel any mere human can give them. Then I remember Proverbs 16:18. I remember then that the best I can do for them is to occasionally exhort them with the truth, and pray for them continually.
-
1
- Show all
Hi MadHermit,
I have read your posts and agree with you on the genuine gift of speaking in tongues and praying in the spirit.
For those who question the experience, it is better to be a learner than a critic. A number of the posts are about ‘tongues as a sign to the Jews, or to unbelievers.’ The Jews would be reminded of the awakening at Pentecost when God gave the languages of the people who came to Jerusalem from other countries. “They heard them speak in the language in which they were born.”
Paul explains this quite well in saying that in Church, there needs to be an interpreter for a message in tongues, to be edifying to the body of believers. --- I have heard this in a meeting where one speaks in an unknown language, and then an interpretation is given by another in English. --- In one case a lady spoke in a language and then later interpreted the message herself. --- If the Lord is in control in a meeting where the Holy Spirit speaks, there may be some praying silently in the spirit, then the Lord inspires one to speak out. --- When the interpretation is given, the whole body is edified. --- But those praying silently will also be edified by their own silent worship.
When all things are done ‘decently and in order,' an unbeliever would acknowledge that the Lord is speaking through His people, and they may well be drawn into such a Church or fellowship, knowing that the Lord is there.
Blessings
I have read your posts and agree with you on the genuine gift of speaking in tongues and praying in the spirit.
For those who question the experience, it is better to be a learner than a critic. A number of the posts are about ‘tongues as a sign to the Jews, or to unbelievers.’ The Jews would be reminded of the awakening at Pentecost when God gave the languages of the people who came to Jerusalem from other countries. “They heard them speak in the language in which they were born.”
Paul explains this quite well in saying that in Church, there needs to be an interpreter for a message in tongues, to be edifying to the body of believers. --- I have heard this in a meeting where one speaks in an unknown language, and then an interpretation is given by another in English. --- In one case a lady spoke in a language and then later interpreted the message herself. --- If the Lord is in control in a meeting where the Holy Spirit speaks, there may be some praying silently in the spirit, then the Lord inspires one to speak out. --- When the interpretation is given, the whole body is edified. --- But those praying silently will also be edified by their own silent worship.
When all things are done ‘decently and in order,' an unbeliever would acknowledge that the Lord is speaking through His people, and they may well be drawn into such a Church or fellowship, knowing that the Lord is there.
Blessings
-
3
- Show all
To examine the real teaching of Paul on the gifts, we have to start in 1 Corinthians 12 where he lists the gifts and compares the manifestation of the gifts in the Church to the working of the human body. --- There needs to be unity and harmony in the gifted ones, and he closes with this verse 31, “Earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.”
--- And that is chapter 13, the way of ‘Love.’ He ends with “And now abide faith, hope, love, these three, but the greatest of these is ‘love.’
If a person is a vessel of love they will become a more effective vessel of the Holy Spirit.
In 14 Paul writes, “Pursue ‘love’ and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophecy.”
--- So it would seem that if a person is a vessel of love and compassion he may have an evangelistic spirit, to whom the Lord may give the gift of prophecy. --- Which Paul suggests as the better gift to have. --- And the reason is:
Prophecy is ‘inspired preaching.’ --- But It is not a preacher preparing his best sermon and asking the Lord to bless it, --- because that means the preacher is still doing it. --- It is letting the Lord speak His message through the vessel. --- When a person is yielded to the Holy Spirit, then the Holy Spirit can speak the Lord’s message through him.
In the OT, prophecy was foretelling the future. --- the Prophet spoke the word of God, which was to be fulfilled years later. --- And most of the prophecies were about the coming Messiah and a New Covenant.
In the NT where the prophecies were being fulfilled, --- prophecy was no longer ‘foretelling,’ but ‘forth telling’ the message of ‘Jesus Christ and redemption through His blood.’
Revelation 12:11 “And they overcame him (Satan) by the blood of the lamb and by the word of their testimony.” --- And 19:10 “For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”
Blessings
--- And that is chapter 13, the way of ‘Love.’ He ends with “And now abide faith, hope, love, these three, but the greatest of these is ‘love.’
If a person is a vessel of love they will become a more effective vessel of the Holy Spirit.
In 14 Paul writes, “Pursue ‘love’ and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophecy.”
--- So it would seem that if a person is a vessel of love and compassion he may have an evangelistic spirit, to whom the Lord may give the gift of prophecy. --- Which Paul suggests as the better gift to have. --- And the reason is:
Prophecy is ‘inspired preaching.’ --- But It is not a preacher preparing his best sermon and asking the Lord to bless it, --- because that means the preacher is still doing it. --- It is letting the Lord speak His message through the vessel. --- When a person is yielded to the Holy Spirit, then the Holy Spirit can speak the Lord’s message through him.
In the OT, prophecy was foretelling the future. --- the Prophet spoke the word of God, which was to be fulfilled years later. --- And most of the prophecies were about the coming Messiah and a New Covenant.
In the NT where the prophecies were being fulfilled, --- prophecy was no longer ‘foretelling,’ but ‘forth telling’ the message of ‘Jesus Christ and redemption through His blood.’
Revelation 12:11 “And they overcame him (Satan) by the blood of the lamb and by the word of their testimony.” --- And 19:10 “For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”
Blessings
-
1
- Show all
Placid, I disagree with the standard claim that the charism of prophecy can be reduced to "inspired preaching." My 455 page Harvard doctoral thesis was entitled "Basic Forms of Christian Prophetic Speech," In it, among other things, I collected and discussed all the many ancient Jewish, Christian, and even pagan definitions or explications of "prophecy. Their common denominator is most conducive to this definition of 'prophecy." "Prophecy mediates divine conditions of forgiveness and redemptive security." Let me give just 2 examples from NT. prophetic speech:
(1) Paul succinctly expresses the expected role of the prophetic charism during public worship in 1 Corinthians 14:2 4-25:
But if all prophecy and an unbeliever or outsider who enters is reproved by all and called to account by all. The secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare, "God is truly in your midst."
So the prophetic word supernaturally exposes the hidden sinful secrets, thus making the sinner capable of informed repentance.
(2) Each of the 7 "letters to the 7 churches" in Revelation fits the structural form of a widespread prophetic speech pattern. Notice how these prophetic oracles establish conditions of redemptive security for specific churches in specific cities. The Spirit first exposes hidden sins committed by members of each church and then expresses the required corrective course of action. Then comes the repeated phrase "But if not" which expresses the threat to redemptive security if the Spirit's corrective is not heeded.
Yes, the prophet word can predict the future, and so, OT prophetic predictions of divine judgment sound irrevocable, but the future is not normally fixed for prophetic consciousness and the judgment can be revoked if the people repent. My doctoral thesis proceeds to explain the difference between "apocalyptic" speech in which the future is fixed and prophetic speech in which it is not. But that distinction would take too long to explain on a conversation board like this. I would make the claim that authentic prophetic speech is quite rare in modern times because the nature of the prophetic charism is poorly understood.
(1) Paul succinctly expresses the expected role of the prophetic charism during public worship in 1 Corinthians 14:2 4-25:
But if all prophecy and an unbeliever or outsider who enters is reproved by all and called to account by all. The secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare, "God is truly in your midst."
So the prophetic word supernaturally exposes the hidden sinful secrets, thus making the sinner capable of informed repentance.
(2) Each of the 7 "letters to the 7 churches" in Revelation fits the structural form of a widespread prophetic speech pattern. Notice how these prophetic oracles establish conditions of redemptive security for specific churches in specific cities. The Spirit first exposes hidden sins committed by members of each church and then expresses the required corrective course of action. Then comes the repeated phrase "But if not" which expresses the threat to redemptive security if the Spirit's corrective is not heeded.
Yes, the prophet word can predict the future, and so, OT prophetic predictions of divine judgment sound irrevocable, but the future is not normally fixed for prophetic consciousness and the judgment can be revoked if the people repent. My doctoral thesis proceeds to explain the difference between "apocalyptic" speech in which the future is fixed and prophetic speech in which it is not. But that distinction would take too long to explain on a conversation board like this. I would make the claim that authentic prophetic speech is quite rare in modern times because the nature of the prophetic charism is poorly understood.
Hi,
Quote: I disagree with the standard claim that the charism of prophecy can be reduced to "inspired preaching."
I guess I should have phrased it another way. --- The spiritual 'gift of prophecy' in the New Testament involves the Holy Spirit, so inspired preaching is 'the Holy Spirit speaking through you.' --- And the message is Jesus Christ, and Him crucified,
Revelation 19:10 “For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” --- Is that not right?
Blessings
Quote: I disagree with the standard claim that the charism of prophecy can be reduced to "inspired preaching."
I guess I should have phrased it another way. --- The spiritual 'gift of prophecy' in the New Testament involves the Holy Spirit, so inspired preaching is 'the Holy Spirit speaking through you.' --- And the message is Jesus Christ, and Him crucified,
Revelation 19:10 “For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” --- Is that not right?
Blessings
-
1
- Show all
REPLY TO OBJECION (1): MODERN GLOSSOLALIA IS GIBBERISH, NEVER A MODERN LANGUAGE
Modern speaking in tongues can at times express modern languages. (a) In his book "Jesus in Beijing," NYT reporter David Aikman reports a message in tongues in Hebrew in a Pentecostal church in Almonte, CA. The preacher's wife who gave the message didn't know Hebrew, but the message was understood by a visiting American Jew. It called Dennis Balcombe to be a missionary to China. Tens of thousands were converted to Christian Charismatics through his secret mission work there. (b) I traveled with Loren Cunningham, founder of Youth with a Mission. He was given a message in tongues in the language of a remote Amazon tribe his team was visiting. The result was a great witness and healing of a woman with a severe cataract problem. (c) A family in Saskatchewan received a message in tongues in Swahili, the language of the remote tribe where their daughter had been very sick, but could not be contacted. An African present in the meeting confirmed that the message in tongues was in Swahili. It confirmed that the daughter was OK and would return home soon. Such examples could be multiplied.
REPLY TO OBJECTION (2): SPEANING IN TONGUES (= GLOSSOLALIA) IS A GIFT NOT INTENDED FOR EVERY BELIEVER.
In 1 Corinthians Paul acknowledges that in actual fact not everyone speaks in tongues or prophesies (12:29-30). But he doesn't mean that God never intended us to speak in tongues or prophesy; rather, he means that if you look around, you'll notice that not every believer takes advantage of the opportunity to exercise these 2 gifts. Indeed, he encourages us to seek the best gifts (12:31: 14:1), which include prophecy and tongues because these gifts are for everyone. Thus, after teliing us to seek "the best gifts" Paul immediately references tongues and prophecy (13:1). Paul commands us to "strive for spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy (14:1)." But though prophecy is the best gift, it finds its equal in speaking in tongues, when that gift is interpreted (14:5). Thus, Paul tells us "we can all prophesy one by one (14:31)" and tells us he wants us all to prophesy and speak in tongues (14:5). Paul even thanks God that he speaks in tongues more than anyone (14:18). Private prayer in uninterpreted tongues is encouraged because it "builds up" or edifies the speaker (14:4, 28--so Hans Conzelmann in his respected Commentary on 1 Corinthians, p. 245(3)). This fact is not undermined by Paul's preference for prophesying and interpreted tongues in corporate worship.
Acts records 4 cases in which believers receive the Holy Spirit. In 3 of the 4 cases, speaking tongues is cited as the initial evidence for receiving the Spirit (Acts 2:4ff.; 10:44-47, and 19:5-6). In the 4th case (8:17-19), speaking in tongues is not mentioned, but Simon the magician is so impressed by the new believers' experience of receiving the Spirit that he offers Peter money to give him this power! So it is reasonable to conclude that in all 4 cases those who received the Holy Spirit displayed the initial evidence of speaking in tongues. In the rabbinic Judaism at the time the Holy Spirit was primarily conceived as the Spirit of prophecy, and so, they would expect to prophesy if they received the Spirit. Well, in Acts 2:17 speaking in tongues is considered a type of ecstatic prophesying that fulfills Joel 2:28. Now I don't agree with the standard Pentecostal claim that glossolalia is a necessary condition for Spirit baptism, but speaking in tongues does seem to be a gift that any believer can expect to exercise.
Modern speaking in tongues can at times express modern languages. (a) In his book "Jesus in Beijing," NYT reporter David Aikman reports a message in tongues in Hebrew in a Pentecostal church in Almonte, CA. The preacher's wife who gave the message didn't know Hebrew, but the message was understood by a visiting American Jew. It called Dennis Balcombe to be a missionary to China. Tens of thousands were converted to Christian Charismatics through his secret mission work there. (b) I traveled with Loren Cunningham, founder of Youth with a Mission. He was given a message in tongues in the language of a remote Amazon tribe his team was visiting. The result was a great witness and healing of a woman with a severe cataract problem. (c) A family in Saskatchewan received a message in tongues in Swahili, the language of the remote tribe where their daughter had been very sick, but could not be contacted. An African present in the meeting confirmed that the message in tongues was in Swahili. It confirmed that the daughter was OK and would return home soon. Such examples could be multiplied.
REPLY TO OBJECTION (2): SPEANING IN TONGUES (= GLOSSOLALIA) IS A GIFT NOT INTENDED FOR EVERY BELIEVER.
In 1 Corinthians Paul acknowledges that in actual fact not everyone speaks in tongues or prophesies (12:29-30). But he doesn't mean that God never intended us to speak in tongues or prophesy; rather, he means that if you look around, you'll notice that not every believer takes advantage of the opportunity to exercise these 2 gifts. Indeed, he encourages us to seek the best gifts (12:31: 14:1), which include prophecy and tongues because these gifts are for everyone. Thus, after teliing us to seek "the best gifts" Paul immediately references tongues and prophecy (13:1). Paul commands us to "strive for spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy (14:1)." But though prophecy is the best gift, it finds its equal in speaking in tongues, when that gift is interpreted (14:5). Thus, Paul tells us "we can all prophesy one by one (14:31)" and tells us he wants us all to prophesy and speak in tongues (14:5). Paul even thanks God that he speaks in tongues more than anyone (14:18). Private prayer in uninterpreted tongues is encouraged because it "builds up" or edifies the speaker (14:4, 28--so Hans Conzelmann in his respected Commentary on 1 Corinthians, p. 245(3)). This fact is not undermined by Paul's preference for prophesying and interpreted tongues in corporate worship.
Acts records 4 cases in which believers receive the Holy Spirit. In 3 of the 4 cases, speaking tongues is cited as the initial evidence for receiving the Spirit (Acts 2:4ff.; 10:44-47, and 19:5-6). In the 4th case (8:17-19), speaking in tongues is not mentioned, but Simon the magician is so impressed by the new believers' experience of receiving the Spirit that he offers Peter money to give him this power! So it is reasonable to conclude that in all 4 cases those who received the Holy Spirit displayed the initial evidence of speaking in tongues. In the rabbinic Judaism at the time the Holy Spirit was primarily conceived as the Spirit of prophecy, and so, they would expect to prophesy if they received the Spirit. Well, in Acts 2:17 speaking in tongues is considered a type of ecstatic prophesying that fulfills Joel 2:28. Now I don't agree with the standard Pentecostal claim that glossolalia is a necessary condition for Spirit baptism, but speaking in tongues does seem to be a gift that any believer can expect to exercise.
Hi madhermit...nice to meet you.
Am just making a comment on your second paragraph.
My thought is that it's not prophecy that exposes the hearts of men but other gifts such as knowledge/ wisdom. I think it would be written like the scripture saying, and Jesus, knowing their heart said....
Am just making a comment on your second paragraph.
My thought is that it's not prophecy that exposes the hearts of men but other gifts such as knowledge/ wisdom. I think it would be written like the scripture saying, and Jesus, knowing their heart said....
-
2
- Show all
Hi MadHermit,
Quote from post 50:
Acts records 4 cases in which believers receive the Holy Spirit. In 3 of the 4 cases, speaking tongues is cited as the initial evidence for receiving the Spirit (Acts 2:4ff.; 10:44-47, and 19:5-6). In the 4th case (8:17-19), speaking in tongues is not mentioned, but Simon the magician is so impressed by the new believers' experience of receiving the Spirit that he offers Peter money to give him this power! So it is reasonable to conclude that in all 4 cases those who received the Holy Spirit displayed the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
Response: --- I agree with your statement, and that it is reasonable to conclude in Acts 8:17-19 that after the laying on of hands, “They received the Holy Spirit,” with the result of ‘speaking in tongues.' --- Also, it was after the laying on of hands that they spoke in tongues in 19:6 “And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.”
--- I have wondered if this was the ‘gift’ in 1 Timothy 4:12 “Let no one despise your youth, but be an example to the believers in word, in conduct, in love, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
13 Till I come, give attention to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
14 Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you by prophecy with the laying on of the hands of the eldership.
15 Meditate on these things; give yourself entirely to them, that your progress may be evident to all.
16 Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.
Blessings
Quote from post 50:
Acts records 4 cases in which believers receive the Holy Spirit. In 3 of the 4 cases, speaking tongues is cited as the initial evidence for receiving the Spirit (Acts 2:4ff.; 10:44-47, and 19:5-6). In the 4th case (8:17-19), speaking in tongues is not mentioned, but Simon the magician is so impressed by the new believers' experience of receiving the Spirit that he offers Peter money to give him this power! So it is reasonable to conclude that in all 4 cases those who received the Holy Spirit displayed the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
Response: --- I agree with your statement, and that it is reasonable to conclude in Acts 8:17-19 that after the laying on of hands, “They received the Holy Spirit,” with the result of ‘speaking in tongues.' --- Also, it was after the laying on of hands that they spoke in tongues in 19:6 “And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.”
--- I have wondered if this was the ‘gift’ in 1 Timothy 4:12 “Let no one despise your youth, but be an example to the believers in word, in conduct, in love, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
13 Till I come, give attention to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
14 Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you by prophecy with the laying on of the hands of the eldership.
15 Meditate on these things; give yourself entirely to them, that your progress may be evident to all.
16 Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.
Blessings
REPLY TO OBJECTION (3): SPEAKING IN TONGUES IN THE NT CHURCH ALWAYS EXPRESSED HUMAN LANGUAGES.
Of the many modern examples that could be given, post #50 provides 3 very helpful and comforting examples familiar to me of tongues in modern languages similar to the unique case of Acts 2. Providentially, after I created post #50, Rick, a member of our weekly prayer group told us about a woman praying in tongues in Japan, a language she didn't know. A Japanese lady informed her that she as speaking fluent Japanese!
But the tongues in contemporary languages in Acts 2 are NOT normative for later manifestations of this gift. That eruption is identified as prophecy (2:17-18, citing Joel 2:28), but speaking in tongues is subsequently distinguished from prophecy (19:5-6; 1 Cor 12 and 14). The tongues in Acts 10:44-47 and 19:1-6 are neither understood nor interpreted. So for all we know, those 2 eruptions of glossolalia were no different than their modern counterpart. In Greco-Roman parallels speaking in tongues (Greek: “glossai”) is understood as ecstatic gibberish that needs a prophet for interpretation. Paul prefers to view this non-human gibberish as angelic language (1 Cor 13:1) and labels tongues speakers as “zealots of spirits (14:12),” a phrase that means “zealots of angels (see Heb 1:7).” Jews in Paul’s day embraced the possibility of interpreting angelic languages (e. g. Rabbi Yohanan ben Zakkai and Testament of Job).
Of the many modern examples that could be given, post #50 provides 3 very helpful and comforting examples familiar to me of tongues in modern languages similar to the unique case of Acts 2. Providentially, after I created post #50, Rick, a member of our weekly prayer group told us about a woman praying in tongues in Japan, a language she didn't know. A Japanese lady informed her that she as speaking fluent Japanese!
But the tongues in contemporary languages in Acts 2 are NOT normative for later manifestations of this gift. That eruption is identified as prophecy (2:17-18, citing Joel 2:28), but speaking in tongues is subsequently distinguished from prophecy (19:5-6; 1 Cor 12 and 14). The tongues in Acts 10:44-47 and 19:1-6 are neither understood nor interpreted. So for all we know, those 2 eruptions of glossolalia were no different than their modern counterpart. In Greco-Roman parallels speaking in tongues (Greek: “glossai”) is understood as ecstatic gibberish that needs a prophet for interpretation. Paul prefers to view this non-human gibberish as angelic language (1 Cor 13:1) and labels tongues speakers as “zealots of spirits (14:12),” a phrase that means “zealots of angels (see Heb 1:7).” Jews in Paul’s day embraced the possibility of interpreting angelic languages (e. g. Rabbi Yohanan ben Zakkai and Testament of Job).
First, you seem to be rejecting God's Word, which identifies angelic language as one type of speaking in tongues.
Second, since you don't speak "angel," you beg the question of whether glossolalia sometimes expresses angelic speech.
Third, most of the time Pentecostal churches lack the members with muli-lingual expertise sufficient to identify human languages among the various "tongues."
Fourth, you have no idea whether modern speaking in tongues is any different than the eruption of uninterpreted and unknown tongues in Cornelius's house (Acts 10:44-47) and at Ephesus (19:5-6).
And, fifth, I have already expressed my discernment that about 90% of modern glossolalia is of the flesh. It is the genuine 10% that is so edifying and life-changing. But, as a non-Pentecostal, you lack the discernment to separate the genuine from the spurious.
Second, since you don't speak "angel," you beg the question of whether glossolalia sometimes expresses angelic speech.
Third, most of the time Pentecostal churches lack the members with muli-lingual expertise sufficient to identify human languages among the various "tongues."
Fourth, you have no idea whether modern speaking in tongues is any different than the eruption of uninterpreted and unknown tongues in Cornelius's house (Acts 10:44-47) and at Ephesus (19:5-6).
And, fifth, I have already expressed my discernment that about 90% of modern glossolalia is of the flesh. It is the genuine 10% that is so edifying and life-changing. But, as a non-Pentecostal, you lack the discernment to separate the genuine from the spurious.
I think because tongues, which is simply the word of God's prophecy is used to convert one's soul one at a time as in a personal work of God . Its become clear that it is God personally working forming Christ in a new creature. His word does not return void. The idea that a private interpretation was needed before a person could commit faith to him is not a biblical teaching. (Ye surely shall not die)
He will not share that unseen glory with his creature.
Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.1 Corinthians 12:30-31 -----13:1 King James Version (KJV)
The speaking with tongues must represent the hearing of faith as those who have ears to hear. No ears to hear, no speaking . What good would there be if we heard him but had no understanding that comes with it?
Men hear differently than Angels. Angels are not subject to salvation .No grace or mercy to creatures that have no DNA as mankind. They long to look into salvation . In the new order they will be under our authority .
Hebrews 2:5For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
The speaking in tongues of men and angels must include the hearing. Its how the exclusive faith of Christ comes, hearing God.. He speaks we hear.
He will not share that unseen glory with his creature.
Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.1 Corinthians 12:30-31 -----13:1 King James Version (KJV)
The speaking with tongues must represent the hearing of faith as those who have ears to hear. No ears to hear, no speaking . What good would there be if we heard him but had no understanding that comes with it?
Men hear differently than Angels. Angels are not subject to salvation .No grace or mercy to creatures that have no DNA as mankind. They long to look into salvation . In the new order they will be under our authority .
Hebrews 2:5For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
The speaking in tongues of men and angels must include the hearing. Its how the exclusive faith of Christ comes, hearing God.. He speaks we hear.