Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

[wolfwint]

Wolfwint,
You ask a fair question. I hope you'll forgive that I numbered your statements(1-5) so I can address each piece upon which the question (6) is based.
1) As for why/when others began to teach it... that is a matter of speculation. Myself I would say it is probably because that's when that particular group of people received it and understood that it is both A) necessary and B) available to all. ( 'A' and 'B' still being unproven at this point of our discussion).

2) What you also can't find in the epistles is any play-by-play account of any individual or group receiving the Holy Ghost. The book of Acts is unique in this reality.

3) Along with the answer in #2, This means those accounts in Acts are actually the only Biblical examples of the outpouring of the Holy Ghost, against which we can compare our own beliefs, experiences and assumptions to see which ones measure up, and which ones need adjustment.

4) The declaration you seek was made in Acts 2:38,39 following Peter's explanation to the assembled group that (paraphrased) "What you're observing and questioning is the outpouring of the Holy Ghost as was prophesied and promised in Joel." ... And verses 38&39 (paraphrased in my wording) "This promise is also to you and everyone else the Lord calls, both now and in the future..including your children. If you'll repent and get baptized, God will give this to you, too." <--which is pretty much what I and others are telling everyone now.


5) This is the only one that is difficult to explain. Not that it's hard to state. It's just hard to PROVE. To state it simply.... when Paul says "do all speak with tongues" in 1 Cor. 12:30...he is refering to the "diversities of tongues" (speaking in different earthly languages) that just he mentioned in verse 28, (which indeed IS a spiritual gift only given to some). Notice the order of the list in v.28 exactly matches that in v.30. Is it really a stretch to claim that the topics are the same, too? But to understand this to be a reliable truth rather than a flimsy attempt at an explanation, a person would either have to pray about it until God actually answers (which some claim he won't actually do) OR the person would need to have and operate in the "unknown" kind vs. the "different earthly languages" kind, in order to see the difference. To someone who doesn't believe (spiritual) tongues exist, it probably ALL sounds like hogwash...and "Who CARES whether it's type 'U' hogwash or type 'D' hogwash....it's all just hogwash!". The only way for a person to KNOW whether it's hogwash or correct discernment is for the person to seek God until he clearly reveals the truth. If a person refuses to do that, they've only got their own understanding to lean on.
if I lost you in Answer #5, I recommend re-reading 1-4, because.... Basically, the statements and examples in Acts that you mentioned are enough to support it. (Again, THEY are the biblical examples to which we can compare our own experiences, and test what our churches have told us). The epistles also help but are based on the idea that the people reading have already received that which is described in Acts.

Love in Jesus to you,
Kelby

Hi Kelby, thank you for your clear response.
I will react to your answeres to the same number.
To 1. If this is an elementary teaching of the bible, then it is not understandable that we cant find this teaching during the churchhistory. Even, when the so called church fathers didn't taught this. Some mentioned it, but did not practise it self. After 400 ad till 1900 you find the practise of speaking in tongues mostly among cults( RCC, MORMONS, NEW APOSTOLIC CATHOLIC CHURCH, JW. )

To2 teachings to the church we find almost in the epistels, but not in a reportbook likes acts which goal is to report the history of first christianity and not to teach doctrines. If you dont consider this, you can come to wrong conclusions.
What we as church should know is almost written in the epistels.
So far a lack of this teaching shows me that this was not a issue, orherwise it would be mentioned and taught.

To3 thats correct. Its the only biblical acount. But it has to agree with the whole scripture. And here we have the fact that we can understand acts in at least 2 views. The pentecostal/charismatic way, ore the understanding that acts 8,10 and 19 are only mentioned to show the jews that Jesus is there for all and not alone for the jews.
For your point you have no scriptual proof out of acts, for "my" view i can find out of acts 1. Cor 12,30. and a laxk for an important issue out of acts. Which is depend how you exegete the scripture. We would expect further this teaching in the epistels, because acts was written far after the founding of churches.
You mentioned personel expieriences. Those we have to messure with the scripture.
For example, i know an in germany famous charismatic leader who is defending the RRC doctrine and is also teaching in evangelical conferences(of vourse witjout saying something about RCC doctrine) From my understanding this is not possible.

The other points will follow.

 

[notuptome]

Hi All,

If you've got 'speaking in tongues' or spiritual gifts, or if you ever want them, or the Holy Ghost, or even just want to know what they actually are... this thread was created for you.

For those who intend to discount, discredit, etc... Well, you've got plenty of other threads to populate. This one is for people who want to learn, or perhaps to share what God is doing in their life. (So please ask yourself if that negative comment you know you want to make is really for their benefit, or just your own...especially if they haven't even arrived.)

As for me, I'm only offering to share what I know to benefit others (if they're so inclined) and to learn more myself. In fact, I'm not an expert. God is the expert. God is our hope. God is the one who can explain things to us in ways we can understand. God is the one who gives spiritual gifts. And God is the one who can fix any mistakes we may make. So, let's invite him into the topic.

People, I'll post some things I know or currently believe. Feel free to ask any honest question you like.

God, I'm kind of turning it over to you now. Do with it as you like. Thank you in Jesus' name.

-Kelby

Tongues are not a prayer language. No evidence in the bible to say that anyone ever prayed in tongues. Jesus never prayed in tongues. Your indications that you are not an expert on the subject is well founded. Your desire not to have any contradictory information posted finds its roots in that your position cannot be supported from the bible.

You are offering speculation in place of sound doctrine. Experience over biblical truth.

Tongues existed long before Pentecost. Apostate Israel used their lips to praise God but their hearts were far from Him this is evidenced in the OT.

Can you show any OT prophet praying in tongues? Can you show where Jesus prayed in tongues? Can you show where Jesus taught the disciples to pray in tongues?

Tongues at Pentecost were not for prayer but for evangelism. Tongues were used at Pentecost to proclaim the advent of Messiah in all the languages to all the souls present that day.

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[JaumeJ]

As far as my study has learned, people do pray in tongues. I could look it up, but why…...all here are supposed to be readers of the Bible.
It is even taught that praying in tongues is for th edification of the believer......

 

[notuptome]

As far as my study has learned, people do pray in tongues. I could look it up, but why…...all here are supposed to be readers of the Bible.
It is even taught that praying in tongues is for th edification of the believer......

The teaching which you vaguely allude to is speculative and not well founded on an orthodox understanding of scripture. Biblical study under the leading of the Holy Spirit is for edification and instruction unto righteousness.

Our objective is to become righteous, to be obedient to the word of God and to be conformed to the image of Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Dino246]

Tongues are not a prayer language. No evidence in the bible to say that anyone ever prayed in tongues. Jesus never prayed in tongues. Your indications that you are not an expert on the subject is well founded. Your desire not to have any contradictory information posted finds its roots in that your position cannot be supported from the bible.

You are offering speculation in place of sound doctrine. Experience over biblical truth.

Tongues existed long before Pentecost. Apostate Israel used their lips to praise God but their hearts were far from Him this is evidenced in the OT.

Can you show any OT prophet praying in tongues? Can you show where Jesus prayed in tongues? Can you show where Jesus taught the disciples to pray in tongues?

Tongues at Pentecost were not for prayer but for evangelism. Tongues were used at Pentecost to proclaim the advent of Messiah in all the languages to all the souls present that day.

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

You must think that Paul is one of these "certain men" who "crept in unawares".

 

[notuptome]

You must think that Paul is one of these "certain men" who "crept in unawares".

Not hardly. Just many men will not understand Paul's teachings in light of the word of God. The use of hyperbole is not an admonition to act in a specific manner. Any interpretation that contradicts other scripture needs to be realigned to harmonize with all of scripture.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[JaumeJ]

1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, divers kinds of tongues.
1Co 14:23 If therefore the whole church be assembled together and all speak with tongues, and there come in men unlearned or unbelieving, will they not say that ye are mad?

I hate cutting and pasting from the Word when I know from reding in my own paraphrase.

We are taught to pray in tongues in a low voice so as not to disturb the congregation whe there is none to interpret . It has to dow with our Father being a God of order and not caos.
As long as there are diverse tongues, that gift will be. As long as we pray in this age, some will pray in the language of angels and other, div erse languages. God does not change…..

 

[wolfwint]

Wolfwint,
You ask a fair question. I hope you'll forgive that I numbered your statements(1-5) so I can address each piece upon which the question (6) is based.
1) As for why/when others began to teach it... that is a matter of speculation. Myself I would say it is probably because that's when that particular group of people received it and understood that it is both A) necessary and B) available to all. ( 'A' and 'B' still being unproven at this point of our discussion).

2) What you also can't find in the epistles is any play-by-play account of any individual or group receiving the Holy Ghost. The book of Acts is unique in this reality.

3) Along with the answer in #2, This means those accounts in Acts are actually the only Biblical examples of the outpouring of the Holy Ghost, against which we can compare our own beliefs, experiences and assumptions to see which ones measure up, and which ones need adjustment.

4) The declaration you seek was made in Acts 2:38,39 following Peter's explanation to the assembled group that (paraphrased) "What you're observing and questioning is the outpouring of the Holy Ghost as was prophesied and promised in Joel." ... And verses 38&39 (paraphrased in my wording) "This promise is also to you and everyone else the Lord calls, both now and in the future..including your children. If you'll repent and get baptized, God will give this to you, too." <--which is pretty much what I and others are telling everyone now.


5) This is the only one that is difficult to explain. Not that it's hard to state. It's just hard to PROVE. To state it simply.... when Paul says "do all speak with tongues" in 1 Cor. 12:30...he is refering to the "diversities of tongues" (speaking in different earthly languages) that just he mentioned in verse 28, (which indeed IS a spiritual gift only given to some). Notice the order of the list in v.28 exactly matches that in v.30. Is it really a stretch to claim that the topics are the same, too? But to understand this to be a reliable truth rather than a flimsy attempt at an explanation, a person would either have to pray about it until God actually answers (which some claim he won't actually do) OR the person would need to have and operate in the "unknown" kind vs. the "different earthly languages" kind, in order to see the difference. To someone who doesn't believe (spiritual) tongues exist, it probably ALL sounds like hogwash...and "Who CARES whether it's type 'U' hogwash or type 'D' hogwash....it's all just hogwash!". The only way for a person to KNOW whether it's hogwash or correct discernment is for the person to seek God until he clearly reveals the truth. If a person refuses to do that, they've only got their own understanding to lean on.
if I lost you in Answer #5, I recommend re-reading 1-4, because.... Basically, the statements and examples in Acts that you mentioned are enough to support it. (Again, THEY are the biblical examples to which we can compare our own experiences, and test what our churches have told us). The epistles also help but are based on the idea that the people reading have already received that which is described in Acts.

Love in Jesus to you,
Kelby

to 4 joel 2, 28-29 which Peter quotet, can only be a parttimefullfillment.
If you take the context of those verses.
Then you find out it has to do with the folk of Israel. And, before Joel2, 28-29 will take place, Israel will have peace and will be free from any ocupation.
This not happem till now.
But you take this prophecie for christians and not for the folk of Israel.
This is a very questionable view!

to 5 from where you get this?
gift of speaking in tongues is gift of speakig in tongues. Everthing else is speculation.Paul nowhere taught different types of the " gift of speaking in tongues".

So the most of your teachings base on speculation and questionable interpretation of the word of God.

 

[KelbyofGod]

Tongues are not a prayer language. No evidence in the bible to say that anyone ever prayed in tongues. Jesus never prayed in tongues. Your indications that you are not an expert on the subject is well founded. Your desire not to have any contradictory information posted finds its roots in that your position cannot be supported from the bible.

You are offering speculation in place of sound doctrine. Experience over biblical truth.

Tongues existed long before Pentecost. Apostate Israel used their lips to praise God but their hearts were far from Him this is evidenced in the OT.

Can you show any OT prophet praying in tongues? Can you show where Jesus prayed in tongues? Can you show where Jesus taught the disciples to pray in tongues?

Tongues at Pentecost were not for prayer but for evangelism. Tongues were used at Pentecost to proclaim the advent of Messiah in all the languages to all the souls present that day.

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Roger,
I get it that you disagree with the idea of unknown tongues. However:

Prayer = talking to God. Talking to God = prayer. (throughout the Bible)

Speaking in unknown tongues = talking to God. Talking to God still = prayer. Therefore, speaking in unknown tongues = a form of prayer.

1 Corinthians 14:2 KJV
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God:

The definition of prayer doesn't change just because you don't like what it means.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

to 4 joel 2, 28-29 which Peter quotet, can only be a parttimefullfillment.
If you take the context of those verses.
Then you find out it has to do with the folk of Israel. And, before Joel2, 28-29 will take place, Israel will have peace and will be free from any ocupation.
This not happem till now.
But you take this prophecie for christians and not for the folk of Israel.
This is a very questionable view!

to 5 from where you get this?
gift of speaking in tongues is gift of speakig in tongues. Everthing else is speculation.Paul nowhere taught different types of the " gift of speaking in tongues".

So the most of your teachings base on speculation and questionable interpretation of the word of God.

Wolfwint,
I have a lot of honest hope regarding you.

Twice in this quote you said something important.... pointing out that what I am saying is "questionable". My earnest prayer is that you will choose the right 'person' to actually ASK about those questionable things.

Consider what would have happened if the people in Jesus' days took the 'questionable' teachings of Jesus to the priests and upholders of religion of that time... OR...if they decided to process them using their own understanding of the scriptures.

Then consider what would have happened if those same people took their questions directly to GOD and asked him sincerely and open-heartedly until he made them clear... no longer 'questionable' but CLEAR.

The difference in those two scenarios is part of what Jesus meant when he said "No man can come to me except the Father that sent me draw him". If people won't honestly seek God as if HE is needed and is willing to answer their questions, they cannot receive the correct understanding of what is laid before them, no matter how eloquent the speaker.

Besides, What kind of religion do we have if we don't need God in it....if we're able to trust our interpretation without so much as asking him whether we got it right...and secretly believing he wouldn't answer if we did. Haven't you ever NEEDED God to do something for you?... to where you had to seek him until he moved? If you have, and sought him earnestly, then you know he still moves.

I know that I tell you things that disagree with what you've been taught AND things you believe by your own reading of the scriptures. But I also know that if you'll seek God without giving up, he will answer. If people won't take things to God until he moves, what kind of God do they really serve? One that is on paper and in discussions only? In all of the bible (Old testament and new) they were serving a God that MOVED, answered, healed and did miracles. Why do people act like God won't so much as answer a question? (and no, I'm not talking about you. Like I said, I've got a lot of hope for you or I wouldn't speak as freely as I am now.)

What I am asking you to do (besides forgiving me for speaking so openly) is to actually pray about those 'questionable' things as if you serve a living and able God who actually answers prayer (in the name of Jesus Christ). And don't throw out something 'questionable' until God answers the questions.

And if you'd like me to answer your second set of questions with scripture, rather than just this rant... just say so. I'm willing to do that for you. I just had to point out that prayer is NEEDED if we're ever going to see past what we THINK is right.


Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[wolfwint]

Wolfwint,
I have a lot of honest hope regarding you.

Twice in this quote you said something important.... pointing out that what I am saying is "questionable". My earnest prayer is that you will choose the right 'person' to actually ASK about those questionable things.

Consider what would have happened if the people in Jesus' days took the 'questionable' teachings of Jesus to the priests and upholders of religion of that time... OR...if they decided to process them using their own understanding of the scriptures.

Then consider what would have happened if those same people took their questions directly to GOD and asked him sincerely and open-heartedly until he made them clear... no longer 'questionable' but CLEAR.

The difference in those two scenarios is part of what Jesus meant when he said "No man can come to me except the Father that sent me draw him". If people won't honestly seek God as if HE is needed and is willing to answer their questions, they cannot receive the correct understanding of what is laid before them, no matter how eloquent the speaker.

Besides, What kind of religion do we have if we don't need God in it....if we're able to trust our interpretation without so much as asking him whether we got it right...and secretly believing he wouldn't answer if we did. Haven't you ever NEEDED God to do something for you?... to where you had to seek him until he moved? If you have, and sought him earnestly, then you know he still moves.

I know that I tell you things that disagree with what you've been taught AND things you believe by your own reading of the scriptures. But I also know that if you'll seek God without giving up, he will answer. If people won't take things to God until he moves, what kind of God do they really serve? One that is on paper and in discussions only? In all of the bible (Old testament and new) they were serving a God that MOVED, answered, healed and did miracles. Why do people act like God won't so much as answer a question? (and no, I'm not talking about you. Like I said, I've got a lot of hope for you or I wouldn't speak as freely as I am now.)

What I am asking you to do (besides forgiving me for speaking so openly) is to actually pray about those 'questionable' things as if you serve a living and able God who actually answers prayer (in the name of Jesus Christ). And don't throw out something 'questionable' until God answers the questions.

And if you'd like me to answer your second set of questions with scripture, rather than just this rant... just say so. I'm willing to do that for you. I just had to point out that prayer is NEEDED if we're ever going to see past what we THINK is right.


Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Kelby, thank you for you open response.
In german we use the word questionable in 2 ways. 1. Worth for to ask. 2. Doubting that that what is claimed ore said is true.
I used the 2nd meaning.
And thats the point.
I dont should ask the wrong person ore relay on my own understanding from the scripture.
Well, when i became a christian i got the Holy Spirit and I could suddenly also different between false and right spirit behind.
I had in the first time not much read in the bible, but I was confrontet with many false teachings (cults) And inward i got the assurance whats right and wrong.
In the beginning i was very open for all christianity and i also met pentecostals and charismatics.
I had no problem with them till it came to the question what they taught about the baptism with the Holy Spirit and talking in tongues. Inward i had the same impression that something is wrong, as I had with cults.
And till today no one could proof me from the scripture that this teaching is right.
You have to constract with useing verses which also can express an different meaning and Out of the context to get this doctrine.
But in this way many (also cults) manipulate the word according what they want. And those i should see as truth?
Why such an important issue was not even mentioned in the letters for the
Church. I believe that everything what we need to live as christians on this earth is revealed.
We have only to follow.
Speaking in tongues is one of the smalest gifts, the bible says. But it become the position that it is the highest gift.
Paul clear sayd not all will get it.
Paul clear sayd that the Holy Spirit gives the gifts according his will.
And Paul shows what is the highest gift: 1.Cor. 13;

If I would find your view in the bible I would find it. But it is not. Its human teaching and a Spirit behind I dont identfy as the Holy Spirit.
What others focus to less on the Holy Spirit this teaching focus to much.

If i am not wrong, the founders of the Holinessmovement believed that a christian can live without to sin.
And they were wrong.
Ore as some seperatet from the pentecostel movement to the oneness pentecostal movement ( today around 25 millon) without speaking in tongues someone is not saved.
Ore the charismatic movement which is nearly a third of RCC members, but claimes that the teaching of the RRC is right.

So if you use for this thread : Some truth about..... you should mention this is your ( ore pentecostal/ charismatic) view.
Still I believe we are brothers. 😊

 

[KelbyofGod]

Kelby, thank you for you open response.
In german we use the word questionable in 2 ways. 1. Worth for to ask. 2. Doubting that that what is claimed ore said is true.
I used the 2nd meaning.
And thats the point.
I dont should ask the wrong person ore relay on my own understanding from the scripture.
Well, when i became a christian i got the Holy Spirit and I could suddenly also different between false and right spirit behind.
I had in the first time not much read in the bible, but I was confrontet with many false teachings (cults) And inward i got the assurance whats right and wrong.
In the beginning i was very open for all christianity and i also met pentecostals and charismatics.
I had no problem with them till it came to the question what they taught about the baptism with the Holy Spirit and talking in tongues. Inward i had the same impression that something is wrong, as I had with cults.
And till today no one could proof me from the scripture that this teaching is right.
You have to constract with useing verses which also can express an different meaning and Out of the context to get this doctrine.
But in this way many (also cults) manipulate the word according what they want. And those i should see as truth?
Why such an important issue was not even mentioned in the letters for the
Church. I believe that everything what we need to live as christians on this earth is revealed.
We have only to follow.
Speaking in tongues is one of the smalest gifts, the bible says. But it become the position that it is the highest gift.
Paul clear sayd not all will get it.
Paul clear sayd that the Holy Spirit gives the gifts according his will.
And Paul shows what is the highest gift: 1.Cor. 13;

If I would find your view in the bible I would find it. But it is not. Its human teaching and a Spirit behind I dont identfy as the Holy Spirit.
What others focus to less on the Holy Spirit this teaching focus to much.

If i am not wrong, the founders of the Holinessmovement believed that a christian can live without to sin.
And they were wrong.
Ore as some seperatet from the pentecostel movement to the oneness pentecostal movement ( today around 25 millon) without speaking in tongues someone is not saved.
Ore the charismatic movement which is nearly a third of RCC members, but claimes that the teaching of the RRC is right.

So if you use for this thread : Some truth about..... you should mention this is your ( ore pentecostal/ charismatic) view.
Still I believe we are brothers. 😊

Thanks for your friendliness. I'll reply later, starting with some earlier points, but I must prepare for work now.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[wolfwint]

Thanks for your friendliness. I'll reply later, starting with some earlier points, but I must prepare for work now.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

The Lord bless you at Work!

 

[CS1]

Tongues are not a prayer language. No evidence in the bible to say that anyone ever prayed in tongues. Jesus never prayed in tongues. Your indications that you are not an expert on the subject is well founded. Your desire not to have any contradictory information posted finds its roots in that your position cannot be supported from the bible.

You are offering speculation in place of sound doctrine. Experience over biblical truth.

Tongues existed long before Pentecost. Apostate Israel used their lips to praise God but their hearts were far from Him this is evidenced in the OT.

Can you show any OT prophet praying in tongues? Can you show where Jesus prayed in tongues? Can you show where Jesus taught the disciples to pray in tongues?

Tongues at Pentecost were not for prayer but for evangelism. Tongues were used at Pentecost to proclaim the advent of Messiah in all the languages to all the souls present that day.

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

wrong as usual more mindless attacks and false statements very predictable speaks on a thread that is not his as a troll. says Jesus did not speak in tongues right God knows all. Jesus is God He did not need to. Jesus said we would in Mark 16. and 1cor chapter 12 to 14 which speaks on the "Gifts of the Holy Spirit which tongues is one as you know. You are a hateful ignorant person.

 

[SpoonJuly]

Don't you folks just love it when a mod resorts to name calling.

wrong as usual more mindless attacks and false statements very predictable speaks on a thread that is not his as a troll. says Jesus did not speak in tongues right God knows all. Jesus is God He did not need to. Jesus said we would in Mark 16. and 1cor chapter 12 to 14 which speaks on the "Gifts of the Holy Spirit which tongues is one as you know. You are a hateful ignorant person.

 

[SpoonJuly]

wrong as usual more mindless attacks and false statements very predictable speaks on a thread that is not his as a troll. says Jesus did not speak in tongues right God knows all. Jesus is God He did not need to. Jesus said we would in Mark 16. and 1cor chapter 12 to 14 which speaks on the "Gifts of the Holy Spirit which tongues is one as you know. You are a hateful ignorant person.

Why is this person allow to be a mod on this site?

 

[CS1]

Why is this person allow to be a mod on this site?

anytime you want to leave you can do so. and you are suffering from short term memory loss. Try looking back at your past post guy, and maybe the question should be why are you still here?

 

[SpoonJuly]

anytime you want to leave you can do so. and you are suffering from short term memory loss. Try looking back at your past post guy, and maybe the question should be why are you still here?

I am still here because I refuse to allow your foolishness to go unchallenged.
If you want me gone you will have to ban me.

 

[CS1]

I am still here because I refuse to allow your foolishness to go unchallenged.
If you want me gone you will have to ban me.

no your still here because we are long-suffering LOL

 

[notuptome]

wrong as usual more mindless attacks and false statements very predictable speaks on a thread that is not his as a troll. says Jesus did not speak in tongues right God knows all. Jesus is God He did not need to. Jesus said we would in Mark 16. and 1cor chapter 12 to 14 which speaks on the "Gifts of the Holy Spirit which tongues is one as you know. You are a hateful ignorant person.

You have the audacity to call others hateful and ignorant. You attack me because I point out that Jesus never taught the apostles to speak in tongues or to pray in tongues. You take a misunderstanding of 1 Cor 12-14 and make doctrine that conflicts with the rest of scripture and act like you have the truth. You continue to build you unsound doctrine on Mark 16 the long ending. Sorry two errors do not make sound doctrine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger