Not By Works

[Argueless]

[quoting from Anderson's Appendix]

"Appendix 4 - Philippians 3:8-14 [for CONTEXT]

[end quoting; bold, underline, and bracket mine]

These are in the context of the future specific time period we commonly call "the tribulation period" (which time period LEADS UP TO the "promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom" commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth), and "the beginning of birth PANGS" (aka "the SEALS" of Rev6 [the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" being 1Th5:2-3/Matt24:4/Mk13:5 - G5100 - tis 'A CERTAIN ONE']) ALL commence FOLLOWING the Rapture of "the Church which is His body" (when thereafter "the DOTL" WILL "be present" to unfold upon the earth, with its "man of sin" and ALL he will DO over the course of those 7 years [2Th2:9a=Dan9:27a(26)--"whose COMING"/"the prince THAT SHALL COME"--ALL 7 years are covered in the 2Th2 passage, just as it is also in Dan9:27: its BEGINNING (v.9a), its MIDDLE (v.4), its END (v.8b) in 2Th2]).

The reason many misapply this passage is because of [how one author put it], "yet not a syllable about the real position of the Church--its calling, its standing, its hopes, its privileges!" [CH Mackintosh].

[in view of this, check out Ephesians 1:20-23 WHEN]

Thank you for your very scholarly point of view. I appreciate your effort. Honestly, i could better understand it if you will explain it plainly as if you were talking to a little kid. Not all in here are bible scholars and those who like me who are the little ones who beleve in Him, did not go to bible schools but humbly accepts the word planted in us, which can save us and thereby WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS.

Paul said...

...I have written you quite boldly on some points, as if to remind you of them again, because of the grace God gave me to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles with the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. Therefore I glory in Christ Jesus in my service to God. I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done— Romans 15:15-18

In this regard, just as Jesus instructed his disciples to teach all nations to OBEY HIS COMMANDS, telling them to remain in Him and stand firm to the end and overcome, i will not receive God's grace in vain by being deceived as Eve was DECEIVED.

As Paul warned us...

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6-7

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

As Paul warned us...

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6-7

^ [I've offered before...]

Ephesians 5:6 (your verse ^ ) - "543 apeítheia(from 1 /A "not" and 3982 /peíthō, "persuaded") – properly, someone not persuaded, referring to their willful unbelief, i.e. the refusal to be convinced by God's voice. This is the core-meaning of the entire word-family: 543 (apeítheia), 544 (apeithéō), 545 (apeithḗs)." [source: Bible Hub]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

1 John 5:9-12 [blb] -

"9 If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater. For this is the testimony of God that He has testified concerning His Son. 10 The one believing in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one not believing God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning His Son.

11 And this is the testimony: that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 The one having the Son has life; the one not having the Son of God does not have life."

 

[Argueless]

1 John 5:9-12 [blb] -

"9 If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater. For this is the testimony of God that He has testified concerning His Son. 10 The one believing in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one not believing God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning His Son.

11 And this is the testimony: that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 The one having the Son has life; the one not having the Son of God does not have life."

AMEN.

...On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I AM IN YOU. Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?” Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and MAKE OUR HOME WITH HIM. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. John 14:20-24

...And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who RUNS AHEAD and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; WHOEVER CONTINUES IN THE TEACHING HAS BOTH THE FATHER AND THE SON. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work. 2 John 1:6-11

...During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who OBEY him
Hebrews 5:7-9

IF ANYONE IS IN JESUS AND JESUS IS IN HIM, he will obey the Father as Jesus did because He loves the Father.

... but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me. “Come now; let us leave. John 14:31

Those who do not OBEY Him, hates Him and the Father. Those who hate them are their enemies.

...If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a FEARFUL EXPECTATION OF JUDGMENT and of RAGING FIRE that will consume THE ENEMIES OF GOD. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:26-29

 

[YourTruthGod]

There is a lot a risk


Whether you agree with YTG or not, if truth is not the objective, everything else is lost.

Which is more important, being open and loving or identifying who has the "right" doctrine?
Groups who focus on the right doctrine over openness and loving do not last long.
Our relationship with God is supreme, and our walk comes next.
Out of these, two things flows, the Holy Spirit and life.

There are many reasons for coming to a thread and participating. For me it is just to witness
and share and then understand my brothers and sisters and love my enemies.

Clearly the line here is largely in favour of we are "safe" and dare not anyone upset our cosy
feeling, because they must be the enemy.

I think I have understood the basic precepts and emotional heart reasons for ending up here,
and why there is consternation at my not just accepting the obvious reality we are lost sinners
pointing only to Jesus. My breast plate of righteousness and shield of faith work very well.

I am sure if I return, the same people will be doing largely the same things and swinging the
sword lol. And this is probably the point. If Christ called us to stay frozen here is this mode
of life, heaven will be a very strange place.

God bless

I started going to sites to talk about God because I saw so many people confused with many questions; and people with wrong answers. I thought they would be thankful to be shown the truth, but mostly I have only had violent vulgarities of the worst kind towards me.

Through it all I have been blessed.

 

[Hevosmies]

Working mopping floors cleaning carpets, working out, boxing, preparing a gospel marathon WHAT A DAY its been!

Pray for that gospel marathon btw!

That is my main concern, I might get on here and debate this and that doctrine, but in all honesty its all about getting more people into the Kingdom of God!

Here is the plan: Create groups of two, whip out the map of your town/city and go section by section, KNOCK ALL THE DOORS and preach them the gospel. BEFORE the jehovah's falsewitnesses get there.

You know its crazy how I dont see ANY of the big churches do ANY kind of evangelizing, its only the cults that are active in that department, we got a huge Lutheran church, huge orthodox church, etc. and NOT A SINGLE soul-winner have I seen in the streets! LOSER CHURCHES! Wish someone would get a revival going in there.

While you are knocking doors, you can print out TRACTS and leave them in strategical locations. If you are too shy to witness face to face, I recommend you take an EXPERIENCED veteran with you, and learn from him, let him do most of the talking.
If you are a freak like me that just likes to yell at people, that also works, but remember that you need to approach ALL PEOPLE differently, some people may be going through TOUGH TIMES and the last thing they need is someone yelling at em! If someone is crying ask them whats wrong and present the gospel truthfully but with TENDERNESS and LOVE and MEEKNESS.

And another tip is: DONT STAY AND ARGUE with hard-headed atheist, they are just planted there by the devil to keep you from accomplishing anything. They will argue till the cows come home, present the Gospel and keep it moving!

The thing about souls is: its QUANTITY over QUALITY this time! I have found its better to witness to homeless people and the downtrodden than the reprobates at a leftist sodomite rally, those people are so unreceptive and hardened you are lucky to drag out few to the Kingdom!
In other words: QUANTITY matters, go where the HARVEST is the most PLENTY. IN MY OPINION! A soul is a soul!

 

[YourTruthGod]

The promise to Abraham was before he did anything. AND before he was circumcised

NOT before HE DID ANYTHING.
You are badly mistaken.

Abraham obeying was mentioned even before his faith.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

...If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a FEARFUL EXPECTATION OF JUDGMENT and of RAGING FIRE that will consume THE ENEMIES OF GOD. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:26-29

[quoting from Charles Stanley (1821-1890) on Hebrews 10]

"Now what was the will of God? Is it not revealed in what follows, that we should be sanctified, separated unto God, by the offering of the body of Christ? “By the which will we are sanctified, through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once.” Note, it was not the will of God to set up another system of many offerings, or masses, but one offering, offered once. It is then a great foundation truth, a fact, that through the one offering of Christ, once offered, we ARE sanctified. Do you believe God as to this? or do you say, No, that one offering is not enough to separate me forever to God? Beware of unbelief as to this.
[...]

"Here in Hebrews, it is the question of the conscience: and by the one offering of Christ the believer has no more conscience of sins. The Holy Spirit is a witness that God has nothing now against the believer, as He says, “And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.” Oh, the holy boldness, or liberty we have to enter the holiest by the blood of Jesus. Now the one question is, Do we believe God? You must admit that it is altogether of God. Do not send out the spies of unbelieving reason, to see if it is so. Do not look within to see if it is so. The Holy Spirit bears witness that He who died on the cross, as the sacrifice for your sins, has perfected us forever -in unchanging continuance. Christendom does not believe the Holy Spirit. All her printed prayers show that men do not believe this wondrous grace of God. Ever using vain repetitions for God to be merciful, when He declares in the plainest words of all believers, “Their sins and iniquities will I remember no more!” If you believe God, you must have done with masses and vain repetitions. It is a serious thing to say, We are Jews, when we are not; to set up an earthly priesthood again, and to repeat prayers only suited for a Jew before Christ died.

"If Christ by His one sacrifice has settled the whole question of our sins, perfectly or completely to the glory of God, then plainly there is no more offering for sin. To offer sacrifices now for the sins of the living and the dead, is the most distinct denial of Christianity, be this by whom it may. But if while protesting against such a human priesthood and vain unscriptural sacrifices, in the pretended offering up of Christ on human devised altars, we ourselves disbelieve the testimony of God to the one sacrifice of Christ, what better off are we than they?"

--Charles Stanley [1821-1890], Hebrews 10

https://bibletruthpublishers.com/hebrews-10/charles-stanley/pamphlets/c-stanley/la61566

[end quoting; bold and underline mine]

____________

We must also keep in mind the CONTEXT of "Hebrews"

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Working mopping floors cleaning carpets, working out, boxing, preparing a gospel marathon WHAT A DAY its been!

Pray for that gospel marathon btw!

That is my main concern, I might get on here and debate this and that doctrine, but in all honesty its all about getting more people into the Kingdom of God!

Here is the plan: Create groups of two, whip out the map of your town/city and go section by section, KNOCK ALL THE DOORS and preach them the gospel. BEFORE the jehovah's falsewitnesses get there.

You know its crazy how I dont see ANY of the big churches do ANY kind of evangelizing, its only the cults that are active in that department, we got a huge Lutheran church, huge orthodox church, etc. and NOT A SINGLE soul-winner have I seen in the streets! LOSER CHURCHES! Wish someone would get a revival going in there.

While you are knocking doors, you can print out TRACTS and leave them in strategical locations. If you are too shy to witness face to face, I recommend you take an EXPERIENCED veteran with you, and learn from him, let him do most of the talking.
If you are a freak like me that just likes to yell at people, that also works, but remember that you need to approach ALL PEOPLE differently, some people may be going through TOUGH TIMES and the last thing they need is someone yelling at em! If someone is crying ask them whats wrong and present the gospel truthfully but with TENDERNESS and LOVE and MEEKNESS.

And another tip is: DONT STAY AND ARGUE with hard-headed atheist, they are just planted there by the devil to keep you from accomplishing anything. They will argue till the cows come home, present the Gospel and keep it moving!

The thing about souls is: its QUANTITY over QUALITY this time! I have found its better to witness to homeless people and the downtrodden than the reprobates at a leftist sodomite rally, those people are so unreceptive and hardened you are lucky to drag out few to the Kingdom!
In other words: QUANTITY matters, go where the HARVEST is the most PLENTY. IN MY OPINION!

Ya know I have to ask, Has knocking on doors EVER led anyone to Christ? I did it with my church as a child for years, and never even say one person come to church (although some said they would)

 

[Hevosmies]

^I think its working. I have seen it work. And LASTING RESULTS TOO! Not just 1-2-3 repeat after me and never show up to church no sanctification etc. But real born again experience! Some folks have even joined up in the ministry!

does it matter wheere you reach people?

These folks are going to hell! Someone has to do something.

You know one thing thats interesting is: The FOREIGNERS are easier to reach than the locals. The locals have grown up around the gospel all their life, and are so hardened after rejecting it over and over again, that its difficult.

The method I believe is good to use is the "are you a good person" method. Meaning you ask people do they know if they go to heaven when they die?They almost always say yes, and why? Because they are "a good person". Now you can hammer them down with the commandments of God to let em know that they aint all that good in the eyes of God! And once thats done, you take them to Christ! He is the only one who can HELP in this situation where you are a GUILTY SINNER in front of God. But LUCKILY God loved the world so much that He gave His only son to die on the cross for our sins, shed His blood to wipe all that sin out!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

^I think its working. I have seen it work. And LASTING RESULTS TOO! Not just 1-2-3 repeat after me and never show up to church no sanctification etc. But real born again experience! Some folks have even joined up in the ministry!

does it matter wheere you reach people?

These folks are going to hell! Someone has to do something.

if you seen it work, praise God.. I just think it takes more than a 5 minute talk to bring people to christ.. We draw them with our lives.. But if God can use people doing that, then praise God

 

[YourTruthGod]

Unfortunately this is dcon's tactic.
It tests the principle of turning the other cheek.

Those who stay here continually love his approach and this polarisation view of faith.
The enemy over there, a me fighting as a warrior against the hordes.

He even uses this imagery. But the failure is people like this will always create these
images and not know why they are failing or the gospel is so much more than this,
a message to the heart, of love, resolution, victory and overcoming.

And once you end up in this fighting mindset, you will probably never get out of it.
But it belongs to the conspiracy theorist, the world is doomed, go to the bunker, we must
hide world view, normally well armed to defend their rights.

So one has to let it go. It is not our fight, and dcon can win in his own imagination, which
is why he is here and not evangelising on the streets or stuck into a church and living
community of believers. And if you want to find spiritual reality, start by learning to love
your neighbour and your brothers and sisters in Christ who you actually know.

People who cant prove their beliefs with scripture always result to insults. What else do they have?

 

[YourTruthGod]

Yes, And he was declaired righteous many years before he offered his son. True faith will work. Thus works will follow true faith.

Mere belief will hesitate if it works at all.. If your not trusting the one you are following. You will be a follower in kind only (as james said, they were hearers of the word only not doers)

The scripture is about faith vs circumcision, not faith vs obedience.

Abraham OBEYING was the FIRST THING SPOKEN OF ABOUT ABRAHAM.

The scriptures are about the purification works of CIRCUMCISION and not about how we don't have to obey.

 

[Hevosmies]

if you seen it work, praise God.. I just think it takes more than a 5 minute talk to bring people to christ.. We draw them with our lives.. But if God can use people doing that, then praise God

I realize that. Im just trying to do something you know?

I dont know of what else to do. Better something than nothing!

If you got some better ideas let me know!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I realize that. Im just trying to do something you know?

I dont know of what else to do. Better something than nothing!

If you got some better ideas let me know!

Do what the lord calls you to do. and pray about it and have others pray for you.. No matter what that is..

 

[UnderGrace]

I started going to sites to talk about God because I saw so many people confused with many questions; and people with wrong answers. I thought they would be thankful to be shown the truth, but mostly I have only had violent vulgarities of the worst kind towards me.

Through it all I have been blessed.

What kinds of blessings?

 

[YourTruthGod]

It’s actually about the PROMISE

It is about the promise.
The promise to whom and why.

11And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 12And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yetuncircumcised.

See, it is about circumcision.

It was an outward sign of the covenant which was based wholly on God’s promise

It is about God loving and promising Abraham because he OBEYED and had faith.

Further, it’s the TRUE BAPTISM that washes, purified, cleans

Not circumcision

Again, it is NOT about faith VS obedience!

It is about faith VS circumcision/purification works.

If what you are saying were true, then romans 4 would be in error.

But Romans 4 clearly says that Abraham is the father of both.

And the promise, which cane before circumcision, was clearly God’s declaration that Abraham would be the father of many nations

And how do you EVER get that it proves me wrong and not show you that you are wrong?

 

[Rosemaryx]

Thought this was lovely...xox...

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

We must also keep in mind the CONTEXT of "Hebrews"

Another along the same lines:


[quoting Charles Stanley [1821-1890], on Hebrews]

"The third point I ask you to notice is perfection as to redemption. The Christian can say, “We have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins” (Eph. 1:7). O blessed fact! who can tell its value? Now what could the Jew of old say? Certainly he had been redeemed from the bondage of Egypt; but as to sins? Well, the most he could say was the sins of the nation have been confessed on the head of the scape goat. The sins of three hundred and sixty days — the Jewish year. But when? On the day of atonement. Yes, and the goat has been sent far away, to return no more. And the blood of atonement has been shed, and sprinkled on the mercy seat. But blessed as all this was as pointing forward; yet it could not give the Jew complete redemption from sins for one year of three hundred and sixty days. And if it could? If he could have said, I have redemption for one year, would that have been perfect redemption? Certainly not! far from it. If you were to give £10 for the redemption of a poor slave you greatly pitied for one year, would that be perfect redemption? Why, it would only make the poor man’s case worse, as he lapsed again to slavery, and cruel bondage. No, if it is perfect redemption, you must pay down a sum that shall set him free forever. Now it is written of our precious Jesus that “by His own blood, He entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us” (Heb. 9:12).

"He did not redeem us for three hundred and sixty days: that would not have been perfect. My reader, if you have redemption, remember, it is, it must be, eternal redemption. Oh how few grasp this blessed fact! How few believe it! Have you eternal redemption by the blood of Jesus, infinite in value? How can it be less than eternal in efficacy? This is the value the blood of Jesus has before God, for all the washed, redeemed on earth and in heaven; and it is always the same. Is it before your soul as it is before God? I can tell you — who have never yet given it this place; all who speak of oft-recurring masses or sacrifices for sins; and all who speak of a fresh application of the blood of Jesus — that if you have redemption at all, you have eternal redemption. You will see this, if you look again at the illustration of the slave. If his redemption is not perfect, or complete, and forever; if only for one, two, or ten years, then there will need a fresh application of money, to purchase a further redemption. But if redeemed forever, there can be no such fresh application. Now if you have not gone on to the perfection, in the blood of Jesus once offered, for eternal redemption, then sure, as you have imperfect knowledge or views of that redemption so surely you will be uneasy, and inconsistent, and talk about fresh applications of the blood of Christ. The Scripture never thus speaks.

"But you say many professing holiness do thus speak, as though they constantly needed fresh application of the blood of Jesus. Then it is evident they have not gone on to perfection, as to redemption."

--Charles Stanley [1821-1890], Perfection; Where Is It? and What Is It? [Hebrews 6 and other passages]

https://bibletruthpublishers.com/pe...t/charles-stanley/pamphlets/c-stanley/la61576

[end quoting; bold and underline mine]

 

[YourTruthGod]

^I think its working. I have seen it work. And LASTING RESULTS TOO! Not just 1-2-3 repeat after me and never show up to church no sanctification etc. But real born again experience! Some folks have even joined up in the ministry!

does it matter wheere you reach people?

These folks are going to hell! Someone has to do something.

You know one thing thats interesting is: The FOREIGNERS are easier to reach than the locals. The locals have grown up around the gospel all their life, and are so hardened after rejecting it over and over again, that its difficult.

The method I believe is good to use is the "are you a good person" method. Meaning you ask people do they know if they go to heaven when they die?They almost always say yes, and why? Because they are "a good person". Now you can hammer them down with the commandments of God to let em know that they aint all that good in the eyes of God! And once thats done, you take them to Christ! He is the only one who can HELP in this situation where you are a GUILTY SINNER in front of God. But LUCKILY God loved the world so much that He gave His only son to die on the cross for our sins, shed His blood to wipe all that sin out!

Wide is the road to destruction; and few find the way to the truth. What you are doing is hindering people. You are hurting people.