Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
No one can break the seal of God.
Strong's Concordance
arrabón: an earnest (a part payment in advance for security)
Original Word: ἀρραβών, ῶνος, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: arrabón
Phonetic Spelling: (ar-hrab-ohn')
Definition: an earnest (a part payment in advance for security)
Usage: an earnest, earnest-money, a large part of the payment, given in advance as a security that the whole will be paid afterwards.
https://biblehub.com/greek/728.htm
<1,,728,arrabon>
originally, "earnest-money" deposited by the purchaser and forfeited if the purchase was not completed, was probably a Phoenician word, introduced into Greece. In general usage it came to denote "a pledge" or "earnest" of any sort; in the NT it is used only of that which is assured by God to believers; it is said of the Holy Spirit as the Divine "pledge" of all their future blessedness, 2 Corinthians 1:22; 5:5; in Ephesians 1:14; 4:30 particularly of their eternal inheritance.
https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/ved/e/earnest.html
2 Corinthians 1:21 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Ephesians 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed unto/for the day of redemption.
Strong's Concordance
arrabón: an earnest (a part payment in advance for security)
Original Word: ἀρραβών, ῶνος, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: arrabón
Phonetic Spelling: (ar-hrab-ohn')
Definition: an earnest (a part payment in advance for security)
Usage: an earnest, earnest-money, a large part of the payment, given in advance as a security that the whole will be paid afterwards.
https://biblehub.com/greek/728.htm
<1,,728,arrabon>
originally, "earnest-money" deposited by the purchaser and forfeited if the purchase was not completed, was probably a Phoenician word, introduced into Greece. In general usage it came to denote "a pledge" or "earnest" of any sort; in the NT it is used only of that which is assured by God to believers; it is said of the Holy Spirit as the Divine "pledge" of all their future blessedness, 2 Corinthians 1:22; 5:5; in Ephesians 1:14; 4:30 particularly of their eternal inheritance.
https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/ved/e/earnest.html
2 Corinthians 1:21 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Ephesians 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed unto/for the day of redemption.
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age,
if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
Heb 6:4-6
If one says there is an experience that is eternal that cannot be reversed, then you have
to find solutions to areas where that exactly happens.
The above is the prime example of know God and the Holy Spirit by falling away.
The other is Pauls view we are temples of the Holy Spirit, pure, Holy, spotless.
Either Paul is wrong and overly optimistic, or a temple can be desecrated and the Holy Spirit leave.
You have the idea, which I know of, a person who was a christian became a spiritualist.
This lady was married, and her husband, a believer divorced her because of this.
So if you say this person came to Christ, born eternally, was then submitting the Lords Holy Temple
to desecration and talking to demons. That simply does not work.
So I counsel younger widows to marry, to have children, to manage their homes and to give the enemy no opportunity for slander.
Some have in fact already turned away to follow Satan.
1 Tim 5:14-15
The simple reality is people do lots of crazy stuff and God is present for a while and then
withdraws. So one is left saying, we walk in His ways with His blessing, and He can withdraw
it because His Holiness is supreme above the sinfulness of man.
The problem with your belief system, is it exists because it must for your own reassurance
not because of scripture or spiritual reality as we see it played out in the Christian community.
King Saul is a prime example of being chosen and then rejected.
Israel as a whole again demonstrate great calling and blessing with most being rejected.
The church as it grew had many who gained some understanding and then went off the rails.
Phrases like
Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith. 1 Tim 1:19
By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
1 Cor 15:2
When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.
1 Cor 11:32
Paul believes the Lord takes His own, so that they might be spared being condemned with the world.
Peter talks of those who know the way of righteousness, yet destroy it
It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.
2 Peter 2:21
The Lord will preserve what He can, but is not bound by it.
not because of scripture or spiritual reality as we see it played out in the Christian community.
King Saul is a prime example of being chosen and then rejected.
Israel as a whole again demonstrate great calling and blessing with most being rejected.
The church as it grew had many who gained some understanding and then went off the rails.
Phrases like
Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith. 1 Tim 1:19
By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
1 Cor 15:2
When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.
1 Cor 11:32
Paul believes the Lord takes His own, so that they might be spared being condemned with the world.
Peter talks of those who know the way of righteousness, yet destroy it
It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.
2 Peter 2:21
The Lord will preserve what He can, but is not bound by it.
Not in that order. This sounds similar to the 5 step plan of salvation by the church of Christ (Campbellism) only they say you must hear, believe, repent, confess, get baptized and only AFTER you have completed all 5 steps, then you will be saved. We are saved the moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Those who have done so have already repented in the process of changing their mind and choosing to place their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Calling on the name of the Lord presupposes faith in Jesus Christ for salvation and is not some additional requirement after we have been saved through faith. When we call upon the name of the Lord to save us, inherent in our calling is the essential faith that Jesus can and will save us. God promises to save those who, in faith, call upon His name. "Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved." (Romans 10:13). In other words, everyone who invokes the name of God for mercy and salvation, by or in the name of Jesus, will be saved.
In regards to confess, I've heard certain people misinterpret Romans 10:9,10 in such a way that means we can believe unto righteousness today, but are still lost until we confess Christ, which may be next week and then we are finally saved next week, but that is not what Paul is talking about here. Also, someone who is moot (unable to speak) would remain lost according to that erroneous interpretation of Romans 10:9,10 for failing to verbally "confess with their mouth."
Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (TOGETHER) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9-10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.
In regards to confess, I've heard certain people misinterpret Romans 10:9,10 in such a way that means we can believe unto righteousness today, but are still lost until we confess Christ, which may be next week and then we are finally saved next week, but that is not what Paul is talking about here. Also, someone who is moot (unable to speak) would remain lost according to that erroneous interpretation of Romans 10:9,10 for failing to verbally "confess with their mouth."
Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (TOGETHER) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9-10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.
-
3
- Show all
Why do people want eternal security?
They feel that without this belief they are doubting Jesus and His provision.
This is a fair argument except it is unbelief in the wrong thing.
Eternal security is in the cross and its provision of forgiveness, and in the nature of God
that it declares. Our security and foundation is in knowing Jesus is the great provider.
Upon this belief all of salvation hangs, and that God can make us like Jesus.
The bond or reality of salvation is in the perseverance of this Bond with God.
To deny the cross and His love and work to bring us into Heaven is to walk away from
God himself and His revelation. There is nothing left if this is done, because the realities
do not change if you return, they have and will always be this way, eternally.
Emotional frustration with our situation and with where we are going is crucial.
Often the feelings of everything get too much and we would rather throw it all off and
go somewhere else, which is probably good. Too many times people burden themselves
with things not of God, and find no way out except giving up.
And after a rest and refocus, they can return, this time better able to see Gods will and
way. Nothing is as straight forward and set as we make out, things take time and we
need to change.... but we always want everything now, today, and not wait for God.
They feel that without this belief they are doubting Jesus and His provision.
This is a fair argument except it is unbelief in the wrong thing.
Eternal security is in the cross and its provision of forgiveness, and in the nature of God
that it declares. Our security and foundation is in knowing Jesus is the great provider.
Upon this belief all of salvation hangs, and that God can make us like Jesus.
The bond or reality of salvation is in the perseverance of this Bond with God.
To deny the cross and His love and work to bring us into Heaven is to walk away from
God himself and His revelation. There is nothing left if this is done, because the realities
do not change if you return, they have and will always be this way, eternally.
Emotional frustration with our situation and with where we are going is crucial.
Often the feelings of everything get too much and we would rather throw it all off and
go somewhere else, which is probably good. Too many times people burden themselves
with things not of God, and find no way out except giving up.
And after a rest and refocus, they can return, this time better able to see Gods will and
way. Nothing is as straight forward and set as we make out, things take time and we
need to change.... but we always want everything now, today, and not wait for God.
This is a great analysis, yet when you meet people, some know Christ while others do not.
So if people live in the word, desire to praise and walk in His ways, amen.
When you are dealing with people, it is the spiritual realities that matter, not orders or analysis.
And there are a whole group of people who we will never know where they are, because they
do not know themselves, and just say what is appropriate.
So I just love to encourage people to know Jesus more and walk with Him.
It seems when people do, Jesus meets them and they grow. Praise the Lord.
So if people live in the word, desire to praise and walk in His ways, amen.
When you are dealing with people, it is the spiritual realities that matter, not orders or analysis.
And there are a whole group of people who we will never know where they are, because they
do not know themselves, and just say what is appropriate.
So I just love to encourage people to know Jesus more and walk with Him.
It seems when people do, Jesus meets them and they grow. Praise the Lord.
I've heard three different interpretations for Hebrews 6:4-6 (lost salvation view, never truly saved view, hypothetical view) but am not convinced that it teaches a really "saved" person really "lost their salvation." *NOWHERE does the Bible use the words "lost salvation." https://www.gotquestions.org/Hebrews-6.html
For a deeper study on Hebrews 6:4-6 see - https://www.preceptaustin.org/hebrews_64-5
Hebrews 6:9 sums it up for me. The writer is speaking to those truly saved (calls them BELOVED). He says that even though he speaks like this concerning THOSE types of people, He is convinced of better things concerning YOU. Things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION. Thorns and briars and falling away do not accompany salvation. *If the writer of Hebrews was truly teaching that a really "saved" person really "lost their salvation" then why didn't he simply say, "For it is impossible for those who were once born again or saved, if they fall away, to renew them again to salvation? *Why is it that we never find the words "lost or lose your salvation" in the Bible? *That would certainly settle the issue.
In regards to the context of 1 Timothy 5:14-15, *notice the contrast between verse 5, "Now she who is really a widow, and left alone, trusts in God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day" and verse 6, "But she who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives. This means dead (spiritually) while living (physically). Paul said in verse 6, But she who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives. He also said in verse 11, But refuse to put younger widows on the list, for when they feel sensual desires in disregard of Christ, they want to get married. "Lives in pleasure," "sensual desires." Are you sure they were genuine believers who lost their salvation? If they really were genuine believers, then there would not have been a problem with whether they should or should not be admitted.
For a deeper study on Hebrews 6:4-6 see - https://www.preceptaustin.org/hebrews_64-5
Hebrews 6:9 sums it up for me. The writer is speaking to those truly saved (calls them BELOVED). He says that even though he speaks like this concerning THOSE types of people, He is convinced of better things concerning YOU. Things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION. Thorns and briars and falling away do not accompany salvation. *If the writer of Hebrews was truly teaching that a really "saved" person really "lost their salvation" then why didn't he simply say, "For it is impossible for those who were once born again or saved, if they fall away, to renew them again to salvation? *Why is it that we never find the words "lost or lose your salvation" in the Bible? *That would certainly settle the issue.
In regards to the context of 1 Timothy 5:14-15, *notice the contrast between verse 5, "Now she who is really a widow, and left alone, trusts in God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day" and verse 6, "But she who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives. This means dead (spiritually) while living (physically). Paul said in verse 6, But she who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives. He also said in verse 11, But refuse to put younger widows on the list, for when they feel sensual desires in disregard of Christ, they want to get married. "Lives in pleasure," "sensual desires." Are you sure they were genuine believers who lost their salvation? If they really were genuine believers, then there would not have been a problem with whether they should or should not be admitted.
-
2
- Show all
14 The LORD is my strength and my song; he has become my salvation.
15 Shouts of joy and victory resound in the tents of the righteous: "The LORD's right hand has done mighty things!
16 The LORD's right hand is lifted high; the LORD's right hand has done mighty things!"
Psalm 118:14-16
The LORD is my light and my salvation- whom shall I fear? The LORD is the stronghold of my life- of whom shall I be afraid?
Psalm 27:1
Salvation is a hope, looking to God to save us, standing in His ways and being His righteous people.
The salvation of the righteous comes from the LORD; he is their stronghold in time of trouble.
The LORD helps them and delivers them; he delivers them from the wicked and saves them, because they take refuge in him
Psalm 37:39-40
Those who no longer look to God for salvation and do not walk in His ways, are evil doers, Gods enemies.
Why should God save His enemies who reject who He is and the way He works. He judges them.
Israel looked to God and were saved from Egypt, looked elsewhere and where judged.
In any sense they had lost their irrevocable calling through unbelief.
18 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed?
19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.
Heb 3:18-19
God works on free will, on those who answer the call and those who walk away.
15 Shouts of joy and victory resound in the tents of the righteous: "The LORD's right hand has done mighty things!
16 The LORD's right hand is lifted high; the LORD's right hand has done mighty things!"
Psalm 118:14-16
The LORD is my light and my salvation- whom shall I fear? The LORD is the stronghold of my life- of whom shall I be afraid?
Psalm 27:1
Salvation is a hope, looking to God to save us, standing in His ways and being His righteous people.
The salvation of the righteous comes from the LORD; he is their stronghold in time of trouble.
The LORD helps them and delivers them; he delivers them from the wicked and saves them, because they take refuge in him
Psalm 37:39-40
Those who no longer look to God for salvation and do not walk in His ways, are evil doers, Gods enemies.
Why should God save His enemies who reject who He is and the way He works. He judges them.
Israel looked to God and were saved from Egypt, looked elsewhere and where judged.
In any sense they had lost their irrevocable calling through unbelief.
18 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed?
19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.
Heb 3:18-19
God works on free will, on those who answer the call and those who walk away.
We don't see the specific words, "lost salvation" in the context of 1 Timothy 1:19. "On the surface" there are verses in the Bible that may "appear" to teach this, but I'm looking for "definitive" terms. Also, in 1 Timothy 1:20, we read - Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme. Where have we heard that before?
In 1 Corinthians 5:1-5, we read about a man who has committed sexual immorality by having his father's wife (does that sound like shipwrecked faith? Was it permanent?), yet verse 5 says deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. If Hymenaeus and Alexander were truly saved, then how do we know the outcome was not the same for them as it was the adulterer in 1 Corinthians 5:1-5 who later repented in 2 Corinthians chapter 2? Nothing is mentioned about him "losing his salvation."
1 Corinthians 15:1,2 - Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. To believe in vain is to believe without cause or without effect, to no purpose. If, as some are saying in Corinth, there is no resurrection, then faith is vain and worthless (vs. 14). The people who fail to hold fast to the word (the gospel) that Paul preached in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, demonstrated that they "believed in vain" (did not truly believe).
1 Corinthians 11:29 - For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. 30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world. Paul knows that the judgment of God can take on the form of physical illness and even physical death. The word "sleep" when referring to death, refers to the physical death of believers, not spiritual death (John 11:11-12; Acts 7:60; 1 Corinthians 15:6,18,20,51; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15; 2 Peter 3:4).
Those who are truly born of God have received a new nature, a divine nature, and have new appetites and desires. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than merely cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. *These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.
Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."
Corruption (Strongs #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.
Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). *But genuine believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4).
Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.
Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment. Judas Iscariot is a good example.
So the Lord only preserves those who preserve themselves? Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off. How long is forever?
Jude 1:1 - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ.
In Hebrews 10:10, we read - "..sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified."
In Romans 8:30, we read - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them.
In 1 Corinthians 5:1-5, we read about a man who has committed sexual immorality by having his father's wife (does that sound like shipwrecked faith? Was it permanent?), yet verse 5 says deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. If Hymenaeus and Alexander were truly saved, then how do we know the outcome was not the same for them as it was the adulterer in 1 Corinthians 5:1-5 who later repented in 2 Corinthians chapter 2? Nothing is mentioned about him "losing his salvation."
1 Corinthians 15:1,2 - Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. To believe in vain is to believe without cause or without effect, to no purpose. If, as some are saying in Corinth, there is no resurrection, then faith is vain and worthless (vs. 14). The people who fail to hold fast to the word (the gospel) that Paul preached in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, demonstrated that they "believed in vain" (did not truly believe).
1 Corinthians 11:29 - For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. 30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world. Paul knows that the judgment of God can take on the form of physical illness and even physical death. The word "sleep" when referring to death, refers to the physical death of believers, not spiritual death (John 11:11-12; Acts 7:60; 1 Corinthians 15:6,18,20,51; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15; 2 Peter 3:4).
Those who are truly born of God have received a new nature, a divine nature, and have new appetites and desires. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than merely cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. *These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.
Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."
Corruption (Strongs #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.
Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). *But genuine believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4).
Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.
Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment. Judas Iscariot is a good example.
So the Lord only preserves those who preserve themselves?
Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off. How long is forever? Jude 1:1 - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ.
In Hebrews 10:10, we read - "..sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified."
In Romans 8:30, we read - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them.
-
2
- Show all
For the LORD loves the just and will not forsake his faithful ones.
They will be protected forever, but the offspring of the wicked will be cut off;
Psalm 37:28
For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.
Psalm 37:28
Which version above is scripture and which is projection?
Changing faithful ones to His saints is quite a leap.
This is not faithful ones to sinners who were once saints.
This is where you could call this changing the word of God.
Gods faithful will always be promised their inheritence.
They will be protected forever, but the offspring of the wicked will be cut off;
Psalm 37:28
For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.
Psalm 37:28
Which version above is scripture and which is projection?
Changing faithful ones to His saints is quite a leap.
This is not faithful ones to sinners who were once saints.
This is where you could call this changing the word of God.
Gods faithful will always be promised their inheritence.
E
Why do people REQUIRE Eternal Security
1. It is the only way one can have rest
2. According to John, It is the root, or basis of our faith in Christ (he wrote these things so we can KNOW we have eternal life)
3. It is the ONLY way in which we can see pain, suffeirng and tribulation as a momentary light affliction, If our eternal destiny is not ASSURED or SECURE. why are we willing to suffer so many things and consider even the most painful to be momentary? even death has lost its sting, as to be absent is to be present (paul)
4. It is the ONLY means of true growth. We are going to suffer growing pains, we will suffer our bessetting sins which we struggle with. If we have to go around trying to HIDE these sins, because we are afraid, or have to live like we are under a microscope and if we do not mature a certain way in a certain time, we will either live in fear, or live in denial both of which will stunt our growth. And has turned many of us to walk away (why bother) or turn into angry judgmental fools who do nothing but puff self up while judging others.
5. It allows us to see who God is (an abba father) not who satan wants us to see (an evil dictator)
6. It allows us to work and do good works out of humility and gratitude, not out of a sence of duty and pride
7. It empowers us to have true victory over sin,
8. It allows us to see sin as sin, And not hide many sins or defend them as just mistakes or oopsies. It prevents us from watering down the law. and forces us to fess up and acknowledge all sin we see, Because as a true child, we KNOW our fathers love, And although we know we will be chastened, We know our father does it out of love, not out of anger.
these are but just a few.. Feel free to add to this list any that I have left out..
1. It is the only way one can have rest
2. According to John, It is the root, or basis of our faith in Christ (he wrote these things so we can KNOW we have eternal life)
3. It is the ONLY way in which we can see pain, suffeirng and tribulation as a momentary light affliction, If our eternal destiny is not ASSURED or SECURE. why are we willing to suffer so many things and consider even the most painful to be momentary? even death has lost its sting, as to be absent is to be present (paul)
4. It is the ONLY means of true growth. We are going to suffer growing pains, we will suffer our bessetting sins which we struggle with. If we have to go around trying to HIDE these sins, because we are afraid, or have to live like we are under a microscope and if we do not mature a certain way in a certain time, we will either live in fear, or live in denial both of which will stunt our growth. And has turned many of us to walk away (why bother) or turn into angry judgmental fools who do nothing but puff self up while judging others.
5. It allows us to see who God is (an abba father) not who satan wants us to see (an evil dictator)
6. It allows us to work and do good works out of humility and gratitude, not out of a sence of duty and pride
7. It empowers us to have true victory over sin,
8. It allows us to see sin as sin, And not hide many sins or defend them as just mistakes or oopsies. It prevents us from watering down the law. and forces us to fess up and acknowledge all sin we see, Because as a true child, we KNOW our fathers love, And although we know we will be chastened, We know our father does it out of love, not out of anger.
these are but just a few.. Feel free to add to this list any that I have left out..
-
4
- Show all
My simple take is, why would I leave Jesus?
And those who do, I would ask why?
If we are given great privilege and responsibility, then equally there comes the ability to do that which is wrong.
As with any sinner, only the end determines the value of what went before.
The sadness is how people have many traumas and in the testing find it hard.
But are we talking eternal realities or just passing fancies?
Why did it take Abrahams whole life for God to declare
"Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son"
Gen 22:12
What is the greatest test of our lives? Do we really love Jesus or is it just a gamble, maybe true
maybe not? Are we prepared to give our lives or is it just a nice idea as long as it does not cost
too much?
And those who do, I would ask why?
If we are given great privilege and responsibility, then equally there comes the ability to do that which is wrong.
As with any sinner, only the end determines the value of what went before.
The sadness is how people have many traumas and in the testing find it hard.
But are we talking eternal realities or just passing fancies?
Why did it take Abrahams whole life for God to declare
"Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son"
Gen 22:12
What is the greatest test of our lives? Do we really love Jesus or is it just a gamble, maybe true
maybe not? Are we prepared to give our lives or is it just a nice idea as long as it does not cost
too much?
What a desperate attempt at a rebuttal. No need for false accusations or straw man arguments. God's faithful ones (NIV) His godly one's (NASB) are His saints. (NKJV, KJV)
For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off. This IS scripture - Psalm 37:28 (NKJV)
Also, the KJV reads - For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved forever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.
No need for false accusations or straw man arguments. God's faithful ones (NIV) His godly one's (NASB) are His saints. (NKJV, KJV)For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off. This IS scripture - Psalm 37:28 (NKJV)
Also, the KJV reads - For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved forever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
The above is all true, but the focus of that security is the question.
I see my security in Christ and the cross, the eternal reality that He loves me despite my sin and failure
and is willing to transform me into His likeness.
That is my faith. And all the fruit you talk about applies to me and this foundation.
But to say the security is just in a spiritual event, which may or may not have occurred, leads to false
ideas about sinful behaviour, judgement, safety and resolution of sin.
As with most things of God, a small change, and the implications are not of God.
The snake did not say God did not say they would not die, he just questioned was that the only outcome.
So security in being born again and not in the cross seems a small shift, yet its fruit is being an enemy of
the cross is ok, and those who walk with Jesus are the enemy. That is enough to know it is wrong.
I see my security in Christ and the cross, the eternal reality that He loves me despite my sin and failure
and is willing to transform me into His likeness.
That is my faith. And all the fruit you talk about applies to me and this foundation.
But to say the security is just in a spiritual event, which may or may not have occurred, leads to false
ideas about sinful behaviour, judgement, safety and resolution of sin.
As with most things of God, a small change, and the implications are not of God.
The snake did not say God did not say they would not die, he just questioned was that the only outcome.
So security in being born again and not in the cross seems a small shift, yet its fruit is being an enemy of
the cross is ok, and those who walk with Jesus are the enemy. That is enough to know it is wrong.
What a desperate attempt at a rebuttal. No need for false accusations or straw man arguments. God's faithful ones (NIV) His godly one's (NASB) are His saints. (NKJV, KJV)
For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off. This IS scripture - Psalm 37:28 (NKJV)
Also, the KJV reads - For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved forever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.
No need for false accusations or straw man arguments. God's faithful ones (NIV) His godly one's (NASB) are His saints. (NKJV, KJV)For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off. This IS scripture - Psalm 37:28 (NKJV)
Also, the KJV reads - For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved forever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.
saints - godly, Holy One
This is not unbelievers or sinners - This is the point, a sinner is not a saint.
If you are prepared to say there is no difference between sinner and saint you can go where you are going.
I cannot because that is universalism.
# 8 is the key to understanding how works salvationist think and what they do.
they change the meaning of sin, so that they think they do not commit very much, if at all,
a few days ago, I gave peter the greek word for sin, which is used 170 something times in the N.T., and basic definition of it.
has he did any research on it? has he even thought about anymore ? no, no, no!!
why? because workers do not care about truth, they only care about re-enforcing their" righteous" ways, and ignore any Scripture, definitions or context that messes with their controlled reality.
they change the meaning of sin, so that they think they do not commit very much, if at all,
a few days ago, I gave peter the greek word for sin, which is used 170 something times in the N.T., and basic definition of it.
has he did any research on it? has he even thought about anymore ? no, no, no!!
why? because workers do not care about truth, they only care about re-enforcing their" righteous" ways, and ignore any Scripture, definitions or context that messes with their controlled reality.
-
2
- Show all
E
What a desperate attempt at a rebuttal. No need for false accusations or straw man arguments. God's faithful ones (NIV) His godly one's (NASB) are His saints. (NKJV, KJV)
For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off. This IS scripture - Psalm 37:28 (NKJV)
Also, the KJV reads - For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved forever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.
No need for false accusations or straw man arguments. God's faithful ones (NIV) His godly one's (NASB) are His saints. (NKJV, KJV)For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off. This IS scripture - Psalm 37:28 (NKJV)
Also, the KJV reads - For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved forever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.
How can one be preserved FOREVER, if at any time, that preservation is lost.
They also can not see. It is not the people who preserve themselved, it is GOD who preserves them
Something baout the power of God to change people must scare them. Thats all I can think of why they keep ignoring the obvious
-
3
- Show all
Sin is a serious issue in the body of Christ.
Look at Samson, King David and we know walking with God is not straight forward.
Equally Peter denied Jesus, the church had rebellion sin and judgement.
Though we have sinned, we have a way to resolve our sins once purified.
One can deny purification and take the gnostic view of split spirit, soul, body.
And which one chooses is always a personal choice. I can only testify to my walk
and what I have learnt in Christ. That is all I am called to do, Praise the Lord.
Look at Samson, King David and we know walking with God is not straight forward.
Equally Peter denied Jesus, the church had rebellion sin and judgement.
Though we have sinned, we have a way to resolve our sins once purified.
One can deny purification and take the gnostic view of split spirit, soul, body.
And which one chooses is always a personal choice. I can only testify to my walk
and what I have learnt in Christ. That is all I am called to do, Praise the Lord.