Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
The problem is you cannot tell the different between those who believe in salvation
by works and those who hold to we have faith in God and the cross that leads to good works.
Equally there is a difference between sinless perfectionists and those of the Holiness movement.
If you cannot tell the two apart you are part of a movement that calls righteous walking pointless
and having an eternal perfect spirit the truth, both of which are not taught in scripture.
There is literally no point trying to turn scripture on its head with these doctrinal additions that
I have listed. And what you call psycho babble demonstrates how little you know of love and
the emotional freedom that comes from walking with Jesus.
And as I have stated before, I know you cannot understand what I am sharing, because it only
makes sense to those who have entered by the gate and see things from a transformed heart
perspective. I wish I had met myself 40 years ago, things might have resolved a lot quicker.
by works and those who hold to we have faith in God and the cross that leads to good works.
Equally there is a difference between sinless perfectionists and those of the Holiness movement.
If you cannot tell the two apart you are part of a movement that calls righteous walking pointless
and having an eternal perfect spirit the truth, both of which are not taught in scripture.
There is literally no point trying to turn scripture on its head with these doctrinal additions that
I have listed. And what you call psycho babble demonstrates how little you know of love and
the emotional freedom that comes from walking with Jesus.
And as I have stated before, I know you cannot understand what I am sharing, because it only
makes sense to those who have entered by the gate and see things from a transformed heart
perspective. I wish I had met myself 40 years ago, things might have resolved a lot quicker.
They are absolutely blind. Not only blind, but leading others to blindness.
They can't see the utter stupidity of claiming to believe salvation is a gift, but it's a gift that must be earned by continual obedience. Which means; it isn't a gift at all!
Or claiming they aren't earning their salvation, while teaching that to remain saved, one must work for it. Which is the epitome of "earning" it!
They teach we are to merit grace, while the very definition of grace is that it is unmerited!
Their "gospel" isn't "good news" at all - but bondage. A points based salvation based on a number of works that they can't define. They can't tell you just how many good works/acts of obedience keeps one saved, or lack of a certain number that will cause you to lose salvation. They avoid questions like; if one loses salvation, can they be saved again? How many times? Or, if a Christian dies with unconfessed sin, do they go to hell?
Or the answers they give are simply generic. Like: "Well, only God knows."
They have placed themselves under a curse for preaching a different gospel. If I were them, I'd be terrified.
They can't see the utter stupidity of claiming to believe salvation is a gift, but it's a gift that must be earned by continual obedience. Which means; it isn't a gift at all!
Or claiming they aren't earning their salvation, while teaching that to remain saved, one must work for it. Which is the epitome of "earning" it!
They teach we are to merit grace, while the very definition of grace is that it is unmerited!
Their "gospel" isn't "good news" at all - but bondage. A points based salvation based on a number of works that they can't define. They can't tell you just how many good works/acts of obedience keeps one saved, or lack of a certain number that will cause you to lose salvation. They avoid questions like; if one loses salvation, can they be saved again? How many times? Or, if a Christian dies with unconfessed sin, do they go to hell?
Or the answers they give are simply generic. Like: "Well, only God knows."
They have placed themselves under a curse for preaching a different gospel. If I were them, I'd be terrified.
-
3
-
1
- Show all
Here is the problem. These judgements being made so clearly based on a few words.
We are a people of truth, thinking the best of others and not surprised when we discover something
else. But no, this group are wrong and this other group so right. Based on just a few words.
Imagine if life and death was resolved like this, or heaven and hell?
This is worse than having an exam and the outcomes eternal.
It suggests to me that whatever is going on it is made up and illusory even for those who claim to
have such "insight"
We are a people of truth, thinking the best of others and not surprised when we discover something
else. But no, this group are wrong and this other group so right. Based on just a few words.
Imagine if life and death was resolved like this, or heaven and hell?
This is worse than having an exam and the outcomes eternal.
It suggests to me that whatever is going on it is made up and illusory even for those who claim to
have such "insight"
E
how to tell the difference between a person who believes in salvation by works. And those who hold we have faith in god which leads to good works
Salvation by works....(a few things they will do)
1. Salvation is maintained by works (we can lose salvation if we are not producing works. Or return to sin)
2. Do not believe in eternal security
3. Attack OSAS, even though they usually have no idea what OSAS means (proven by their arguments)
4. Attack grace believers as loving their sin
5. Attack Grace believers as teaching one can be saved and continue to live as they did before
6. Boast of their own works.
7. When speak of the gospel. Concentrate on sin, repenting of sin, and believe that we can change our own lives, and become obedient to the point of salvation
Belief in Christ which leads to good works (a few things they will do)
1. Salvation is recieved by repentance and brokenness which leads to us calling out on the name of Christ
2. Understand the love of God, which saved us, is our guarantee of eternal life (we can stand boldly on the day of judgment based on Gods love)
3. Can spot legalism based on just a few words of other people.
4. In war against licentiousness (easy believism) and legalism (salvation by works)
5. Preach that our goal in life is to become sanctified by the 4 means of growth (acts 2)
6. Will not boast of works. Will always boast in christ and the cross
7. When speak of the gospel. Will concentrate on Gods Love, Gods Gift, The cross, And the fact we stand guilty before God no matter how many or what type of sins a person has commited in the past (the focus is in God. Not self)
As you can see, it is prety easy to figure out the difference between these two groups Its not that hard at all. And i just gave a few points, there are many many more.
Salvation by works....(a few things they will do)
1. Salvation is maintained by works (we can lose salvation if we are not producing works. Or return to sin)
2. Do not believe in eternal security
3. Attack OSAS, even though they usually have no idea what OSAS means (proven by their arguments)
4. Attack grace believers as loving their sin
5. Attack Grace believers as teaching one can be saved and continue to live as they did before
6. Boast of their own works.
7. When speak of the gospel. Concentrate on sin, repenting of sin, and believe that we can change our own lives, and become obedient to the point of salvation
Belief in Christ which leads to good works (a few things they will do)
1. Salvation is recieved by repentance and brokenness which leads to us calling out on the name of Christ
2. Understand the love of God, which saved us, is our guarantee of eternal life (we can stand boldly on the day of judgment based on Gods love)
3. Can spot legalism based on just a few words of other people.
4. In war against licentiousness (easy believism) and legalism (salvation by works)
5. Preach that our goal in life is to become sanctified by the 4 means of growth (acts 2)
6. Will not boast of works. Will always boast in christ and the cross
7. When speak of the gospel. Will concentrate on Gods Love, Gods Gift, The cross, And the fact we stand guilty before God no matter how many or what type of sins a person has commited in the past (the focus is in God. Not self)
As you can see, it is prety easy to figure out the difference between these two groups Its not that hard at all. And i just gave a few points, there are many many more.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
E
Remember bro. The pharisee saw Jesus raise a man from the dead, and it could not convince them, When your pride has yet to be broken, You will not see even if it is right in front of you. You will excuse it away in order to continue to maintain your pride
How did th epharisee exuse it away? They determined they had to KILL both JESUS and LAZARUS! To hide the fact which exposed them.
How did th epharisee exuse it away? They determined they had to KILL both JESUS and LAZARUS! To hide the fact which exposed them.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
It is not difficult to realise gifts come in many different ways.
Life is a gift, but do not eat it will be taken away from you.
Life is free, no one chose it, we just find ourselves living it, but it costs, it has rules that must be followed.
What is illustrative is the hatred of obedience and limitations and possible responsibility to follow.
The argument is simply we listen to Jesus and we follow. There are no specific answers to some questions,
it is a point of trust. For instance judgement on the innocent and those not responsible.
Or suffering with no relief. Or being born in a body with indeterminent sex.
Some questions have to be worked through and a place of resolution found.
And the curse is simply not to trust Jesus can make us like His son, through obedience, repentance and
following Jesus.
But if one wants to make enemies of Gods people and His word, God help them.
Life is a gift, but do not eat it will be taken away from you.
Life is free, no one chose it, we just find ourselves living it, but it costs, it has rules that must be followed.
What is illustrative is the hatred of obedience and limitations and possible responsibility to follow.
The argument is simply we listen to Jesus and we follow. There are no specific answers to some questions,
it is a point of trust. For instance judgement on the innocent and those not responsible.
Or suffering with no relief. Or being born in a body with indeterminent sex.
Some questions have to be worked through and a place of resolution found.
And the curse is simply not to trust Jesus can make us like His son, through obedience, repentance and
following Jesus.
But if one wants to make enemies of Gods people and His word, God help them.
My list stirred up quite a response. The above I cannot agree with to any degree.
It is full of hunting out others, and not shinning like a light doing good works and blessing those who
walk in the light.
What are we called to do
1. Believe Jesus died for our sins upon the cross as the atoning sacrifice
2. Repent of our sins, feel sorry for them, commit to good things and to stop sinning
3. Obey Jesus and follow His example, dwelling in His word and Spirit
4. Do good works empowered by Jesus and the Holy Spirit
5. Open our hearts and let Jesus cleanse us and transform us into His likeness
6. Be a blessing to those around in whatever way we can be.
7. Show the fruit of the Spirit that dwells within
8. Love everyone in whatever means we can find
9. Have communion with God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit
10. Be Holy, pure temples of the Living God to His praise and glory
11. Give our bodies as living sacrifices as an offering of praise to the King
12. Love our brothers and sisters in Christ as Christ loved us
And so much more.
We are Christs ambassadors the revelation of Christ to mankind, the dynamic changed lives
that testify of what God can do with a humble sinner who is made whole in Him, Amen.
It is full of hunting out others, and not shinning like a light doing good works and blessing those who
walk in the light.
What are we called to do
1. Believe Jesus died for our sins upon the cross as the atoning sacrifice
2. Repent of our sins, feel sorry for them, commit to good things and to stop sinning
3. Obey Jesus and follow His example, dwelling in His word and Spirit
4. Do good works empowered by Jesus and the Holy Spirit
5. Open our hearts and let Jesus cleanse us and transform us into His likeness
6. Be a blessing to those around in whatever way we can be.
7. Show the fruit of the Spirit that dwells within
8. Love everyone in whatever means we can find
9. Have communion with God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit
10. Be Holy, pure temples of the Living God to His praise and glory
11. Give our bodies as living sacrifices as an offering of praise to the King
12. Love our brothers and sisters in Christ as Christ loved us
And so much more.
We are Christs ambassadors the revelation of Christ to mankind, the dynamic changed lives
that testify of what God can do with a humble sinner who is made whole in Him, Amen.
E
1. It is not hunting it is facts, it is how you can tell the difference between the two.
Now, Time to put your money where your mouth is.
Are these things you mentioned required to maintain salvation.
Or what a person who has been saved are by nature doing?
(Waits patiently not expecting a direct answer)
Now, Time to put your money where your mouth is.
Are these things you mentioned required to maintain salvation.
Or what a person who has been saved are by nature doing?
(Waits patiently not expecting a direct answer)
-
2
- Show all
I am not teaching anything. I am saying Saul is an example of blessing and its removal.
I am also saying the statement of a seal is something that can also be removed.
It is up to believers to explore these realities and find what God is saying.
God never gave something which He could not remove again. All Gods promises are conditional.
God blessed Israel, brought them out of Egypt and was going to destroy them unless Moses intervened.
The apostles warned that likewise we must accept the message of grace and forgiveness and not harden
our hearts in sins deceitfulness or likewise we will fall under judgement.
To ignore these clear warnings shows a lot of spiritual blindness and a desire to have security beyond
that which is provided. And my dear friend, why are you following words of others as if they are significant.
You will say things to me in the future, so why declare you will not? Does that not make you a liar and
a false prophet? Or are you going to be bound by your words, like you expect God to be bound by His.
I am also saying the statement of a seal is something that can also be removed.
It is up to believers to explore these realities and find what God is saying.
God never gave something which He could not remove again. All Gods promises are conditional.
God blessed Israel, brought them out of Egypt and was going to destroy them unless Moses intervened.
The apostles warned that likewise we must accept the message of grace and forgiveness and not harden
our hearts in sins deceitfulness or likewise we will fall under judgement.
To ignore these clear warnings shows a lot of spiritual blindness and a desire to have security beyond
that which is provided. And my dear friend, why are you following words of others as if they are significant.
You will say things to me in the future, so why declare you will not? Does that not make you a liar and
a false prophet? Or are you going to be bound by your words, like you expect God to be bound by His.
E
Can the seal of the HS be removed?
Well a quick study of the passage (there is actually 2 of them which mention it) tells us it will. Not only that it will but when.
Eph 1: 13 - 14. - the day of redemption (ressurection day)
Eph 4: 30 - The day of redemption (ressurection day)
As for what is mentioned in these passages? That it can be lost for any other reason.
lets take the bible for what it says, and not twist it to mean other things.
Well a quick study of the passage (there is actually 2 of them which mention it) tells us it will. Not only that it will but when.
Eph 1: 13 - 14. - the day of redemption (ressurection day)
Eph 4: 30 - The day of redemption (ressurection day)
As for what is mentioned in these passages? That it can be lost for any other reason.
lets take the bible for what it says, and not twist it to mean other things.
E
What I see is up until the time we are ressurected. And given our perfected bodies. Which are UNABLE to sin. We are in need of a guarantee of our eternal life. That pledge or guarantee, or seal, is the HS. He is not just removed, He is no longer needed. We will be perfect or glorified, our sanctification will have been made complete. (Although we will still spend an eternity learning the ways of God)
It is like the seal a king puts on a letter. The seal is there to guarantee the authenticity of the letter. Once the letter is delivered. The seal is no longer needed.
It is like the seal a king puts on a letter. The seal is there to guarantee the authenticity of the letter. Once the letter is delivered. The seal is no longer needed.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
U
Ephesians 1:13
Historically speaking a "seal" was a "mark" indicating a letter or scroll was closed or placed at the end to indicate it was completed or closed.
When a king or someone of high status wanted to place an identifying mark with a letter, he would seal it with a resin imprint of his ring.
It is also proof of authenticity of the author
The Holy Spirit likewise seals to indicate that believer belongs to the Lord once they have believed on the gospel of salvation
The seal is the signature of the Holy Spirit on our life at the moment of belief, so not really about being opened or closed
Historically speaking a "seal" was a "mark" indicating a letter or scroll was closed or placed at the end to indicate it was completed or closed.
When a king or someone of high status wanted to place an identifying mark with a letter, he would seal it with a resin imprint of his ring.
It is also proof of authenticity of the author
The Holy Spirit likewise seals to indicate that believer belongs to the Lord once they have believed on the gospel of salvation
The seal is the signature of the Holy Spirit on our life at the moment of belief, so not really about being opened or closed
-
3
- Show all