Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

[KelbyofGod]

Hi All,

If you've got 'speaking in tongues' or spiritual gifts, or if you ever want them, or the Holy Ghost, or even just want to know what they actually are... this thread was created for you.

For those who intend to discount, discredit, etc... Well, you've got plenty of other threads to populate. This one is for people who want to learn, or perhaps to share what God is doing in their life. (So please ask yourself if that negative comment you know you want to make is really for their benefit, or just your own...especially if they haven't even arrived.)

As for me, I'm only offering to share what I know to benefit others (if they're so inclined) and to learn more myself. In fact, I'm not an expert. God is the expert. God is our hope. God is the one who can explain things to us in ways we can understand. God is the one who gives spiritual gifts. And God is the one who can fix any mistakes we may make. So, let's invite him into the topic.

People, I'll post some things I know or currently believe. Feel free to ask any honest question you like.

God, I'm kind of turning it over to you now. Do with it as you like. Thank you in Jesus' name.

-Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

For those who know what speaking in tongues is, I'd first like to say what speaking in tongues is for.

Speaking in tongues is for prayer. 1 Corinthians 14:2 "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God..."

It is how our spirit (not our mind) prays.. 14:14 "For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth..."

 

[obedienttogod]

< Speaks in Tongues. Understands how to get connected via the Holy Spirit, and to be that Live Wire that allows God to work through me.

Just a bystander in this thread watching the responses. Will chime in if/when I see misuse of scripture trying to prove Tongues has ceased. Just love those who believe Tongues has ceased. It's nice to see just whom our weaker Brothers/Sisters in Christ are, and exactly who lacks the true power of God.

 

[JaumeJ]

Good manner in posting. I believe the gifts of the Holy Spirit are here until they will no longer be necessary, when all prophesy is fulfuilled, when all speak the pure tongue foretold by Zephaniah, and when we are in our glorified new state………...

Some people believe others do not believe that our Lord is always the same. God bless you adn my your posting be filled with sharing and learning by the Holy Spirit, amen.

 

[JaumeJ]

< Speaks in Tongues. Understands how to get connected via the Holy Spirit, and to be that Live Wire that allows God to work through me.

Just a bystander in this thread watching the responses. Will chime in if/when I see misuse of scripture trying to prove Tongues has ceased. Just love those who believe Tongues has ceased. It's nice to see just whom our weaker Brothers/Sisters in Christ are, and exactly who lacks the true power of God.

I am not certain if they are weacker or just not yet called out.........the important issue though is that our Father knows. Praisse God and remain as you are, believing, amen.

 

[obedienttogod]

I am not certain if they are weacker or just not yet called out.........the important issue though is that our Father knows. Praisse God and remain as you are, believing, amen.

I only say weaker, since they have denied that part of God to enable Him to enrich their spiritual lives. It's like saying you have enough faith to move a mountain, but cannot even muster enough faith to confront moving shadows when alone, or rebuking them for being a distraction between them (weaker believers) and God.

 

[MadHermit]

Well, my thread on Speaking in Tongues has at least accomplished one thing--it has triggered a blizzard of new threads on speaking in tongues. I'll try to keep attracting all the trolls to my thread, so that this one can remain harmonious, pure, and biblically sound.

 

[KelbyofGod]

For those who are only now learning about speaking in tongues, I'd like to make a few points and bring several scriptures to your awareness.

If I'm not mistaken, there are only four play-by-play accounts that STATE exactly when, or at what point, the Holy Ghost is poured out upon the people being discussed. Feel free to point out any other scriptural accounts that i missed. The 4 accounts that I'm thinking of are Acts 2:4, Acts 8:17, Acts 10:44, and Acts 19:6. Please read each entire account because they are important, but I just referenced the individual verses stating that the Holy Ghost is being poured out at this specific moment on these individuals. (Other ways of saying this are "Baptized with the Holy Ghost" and "received the Holy Ghost")

Those four accounts are enough to test several things we've thought or been told about the Holy Ghost and/or the role of speaking in tongues. If there are others, we should run our beliefs through them as well. I believe a correct belief should be able to pass through them all.

 

[KelbyofGod]

I only say weaker, since they have denied that part of God to enable Him to enrich their spiritual lives. It's like saying you have enough faith to move a mountain, but cannot even muster enough faith to confront moving shadows when alone, or rebuking them for being a distraction between them (weaker believers) and God.

I kind of look at it like this.. these are important and often controversial topics, and we all operate at our current level of understanding. The apostle Paul once was a guy named Saul...who HATED stuff like this and the man who started it (Jesus). He hated it so much that he had people imprisoned, tortured and killed to fight it. Later on, God got ahold of him and showed him some things he hadn't realized. Then Saul/Paul not only acknowledged it, he embraced it, exemplified it, and wrote a good selection of scripture about it. So I try not to put labels on people who currently disagree. Saul might have been wrong in his beliefs, but I'm not sure I'd call him "weaker". That dude was definitely on fire with his beliefs...and that is commendable.

 

[JaumeJ]

Some of my understanding of tongues is that as a gift to congregation members it is primarily to edify and build up the one who has the gift, ergo each should pray in a low tone while in the assembly so as not to cause any confusion. Then there is the prophetic type of tongues where when someone is gifted to interpret the tongues are spoken aloud when moved by the Holy Spirit.

Many overlook the day of Pentacost when the Apostles were given to speak and be understood by the great vasriety of peoples in their presence. I always had the impression that all understood each Apostle in their own tongues. My Father can do this and anything He chooses...…..This type of tongues was apparently a one-time-only display of the gift…… I believe it. Praise God.

 

[KelbyofGod]

Some of my understanding of tongues is that as a gift to congregation members it is primarily to edify and build up the one who has the gift, ergo each should pray in a low tone while in the assembly so as not to cause any confusion. Then there is the prophetic type of tongues where when someone is gifted to interpret the tongues are spoken aloud when moved by the Holy Spirit.

This part is very well spoken. I guess I should add that this is my understanding as well.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

Many overlook the day of Pentacost when the Apostles were given to speak and be understood by the great vasriety of peoples in their presence. I always had the impression that all understood each Apostle in their own tongues. My Father can do this and anything He chooses...…..This type of tongues was apparently a one-time-only display of the gift…… I believe it. Praise God.

JaumeJ,
I think a lot of people don't realize how "diversities of tongues" works. Or how it works in conjunction with what you just said about "when moved by the Holy Spirit".

For example, considering that speaking in tongues (only to God) sounds to the speaker like jibberish... what does "diversities of tongues" (different earthly languages) sound like to the speaker? .... It also sounds like jibberesh!

So the speaker often doesn't know that another person is understanding what is being said...or what language he or she may be speaking at the time. The speaker only knows that he is yielding his voice to the syllables that the Holy Ghost is prompting him to speak.

That's part of the reason, in Acts 2, that the bible doesn't say the disciples were amazed that they were speaking in those foreign languages. Only the hearers recognized the languages and were amazed. The disciples were simply continuing to yield their mouths and voices to the leadings of the Holy Ghost...as they had been doing since the outpouring first began.

 

[JaumeJ]

If I boast, I boast of our Maker. It has always been my true experience on those very rare times I have been used for a work that during the execution of the work it all seemed quite natural, quite normal. Only some time after the event would I say to myself, that was a miracle, wow…….Thank you Father,. An example is havinge been led by the Holy Spirit to stop and wait for a car on the highway, then talk to a hitchhiker getting out of th ecar taking her the opposite direction on a fork of th e road to her destination. I was givne to tell her where she was going, aming th e road, and also to give her a message jsut--for-her about reading the Book, Revelation. All the while, I simply opened my mouth and spoke. From these experiences I came to know what it means to listen to your teching! and learn from them…...for it is not we who speak but the Holy Spirit within.. Not worthy am I at all, yet I look to the Fathe to always use me when it is HIs desire and will. He is so wonderful. Words cannot describe. Holy, holy holy is He, amen.

 

[JaumeJ]

Yes, He is here. praise God, amen.

 

[wolfwint]

Hi All,

If you've got 'speaking in tongues' or spiritual gifts, or if you ever want them, or the Holy Ghost, or even just want to know what they actually are... this thread was created for you.

For those who intend to discount, discredit, etc... Well, you've got plenty of other threads to populate. This one is for people who want to learn, or perhaps to share what God is doing in their life. (So please ask yourself if that negative comment you know you want to make is really for their benefit, or just your own...especially if they haven't even arrived.)

As for me, I'm only offering to share what I know to benefit others (if they're so inclined) and to learn more myself. In fact, I'm not an expert. God is the expert. God is our hope. God is the one who can explain things to us in ways we can understand. God is the one who gives spiritual gifts. And God is the one who can fix any mistakes we may make. So, let's invite him into the topic.

People, I'll post some things I know or currently believe. Feel free to ask any honest question you like.

God, I'm kind of turning it over to you now. Do with it as you like. Thank you in Jesus' name.

-Kelby

Hi Kelby, you claim to teach the truth.
I have an earnest question about the Holy Spirit and the combination with the gift of speaking of tongues.
Why this is taught since the pentecostal movement started in the beginning of the 20th century?
But I cant find this teaching in any epistels to the church.
What i can find, is that special events, out of pentecost, in which special groups (samarians acts 8, gentiles acts 10 and disciples of John acts 19) received the Holy Spirit with laying their hands on them and speaking in tongues as it was reportet in acts 2 to the jews.
But only this reports says nothing about that this will be in future an expierience for all believers.
And when I add 1.Cor.12 30 to this. Where clear the statement is that not all believers will get the gift of speaking in tongues, as not all believers get the gift of healing.
How then it can come to such a teaching that the receiving of the Holy Spirit is combined with the gift of speaking in tongues?

 

[obedienttogod]

I kind of look at it like this.. these are important and often controversial topics, and we all operate at our current level of understanding. The apostle Paul once was a guy named Saul...who HATED stuff like this and the man who started it (Jesus). He hated it so much that he had people imprisoned, tortured and killed to fight it. Later on, God got ahold of him and showed him some things he hadn't realized. Then Saul/Paul not only acknowledged it, he embraced it, exemplified it, and wrote a good selection of scripture about it. So I try not to put labels on people who currently disagree. Saul might have been wrong in his beliefs, but I'm not sure I'd call him "weaker". That dude was definitely on fire with his beliefs...and that is commendable.

He definitely was on fire the moment he met Yeshua, but as Saul, a Pharisee, a student of the Law, the leader of a group of men who would hunt Christians down in small numbers (Saul + his men vs 1 or 2 Christians at a time)(he was definitely WEAK before meeting Yeshua) was the epitome of a misguided Jew...

 

[MadHermit]

Hi Kelby, you claim to teach the truth.
I have an earnest question about the Holy Spirit and the combination with the gift of speaking of tongues.
Why this is taught since the pentecostal movement started in the beginning of the 20th century?
But I cant find this teaching in any epistels to the church.
What i can find, is that special events, out of pentecost, in which special groups (samarians acts 8, gentiles acts 10 and disciples of John acts 19) received the Holy Spirit with laying their hands on them and speaking in tongues as it was reportet in acts 2 to the jews.
But only this reports says nothing about that this will be in future an expierience for all believers.
And when I add 1.Cor.12 30 to this. Where clear the statement is that not all believers will get the gift of speaking in tongues, as not all believers get the gift of healing.
How then it can come to such a teaching that the receiving of the Holy Spirit is combined with the gift of speaking in tongues?

Wolfie,
I will answer that issue is detail in my thread, but I don't want to attract controversy to this thread. So I'll say, "Watch for my explanation there of why speaking in tongues is a gift for every believer.

 

[wolfwint]

Wolfie,
I will answer that issue is detail in my thread, but I don't want to attract controversy to this thread. So I'll say, "Watch for my explanation there of why speaking in tongues is a gift for every believer.

Hi MadHermit, in which thread?

 

[KelbyofGod]

Hi Kelby, you claim to teach the truth.
I have an earnest question about the Holy Spirit and the combination with the gift of speaking of tongues.
1) Why this is taught since the pentecostal movement started in the beginning of the 20th century?
2) But I cant find this teaching in any epistles to the church.
3) What i can find, is that special events, out of pentecost, in which special groups (samarians acts 8, gentiles acts 10 and disciples of John acts 19) received the Holy Spirit with laying their hands on them and speaking in tongues as it was reported in acts 2 to the Jews.
4) But only this reports says nothing about that this will be in future an experience for all believers.
5) And when I add 1.Cor.12 30 to this. Where clear the statement is that not all believers will get the gift of speaking in tongues, as not all believers get the gift of healing.
6) How then it can come to such a teaching that the receiving of the Holy Spirit is combined with the gift of speaking in tongues?

Wolfwint,
You ask a fair question. I hope you'll forgive that I numbered your statements(1-5) so I can address each piece upon which the question (6) is based.
1) As for why/when others began to teach it... that is a matter of speculation. Myself I would say it is probably because that's when that particular group of people received it and understood that it is both A) necessary and B) available to all. ( 'A' and 'B' still being unproven at this point of our discussion).

2) But I cant find this teaching in any epistles to the church.

2) What you also can't find in the epistles is any play-by-play account of any individual or group receiving the Holy Ghost. The book of Acts is unique in this reality.

3) What i can find, is that special events, out of pentecost, in which special groups (samarians acts 8, gentiles acts 10 and disciples of John acts 19) received the Holy Spirit with laying their hands on them and speaking in tongues as it was reported in acts 2 to the Jews.

3) Along with the answer in #2, This means those accounts in Acts are actually the only Biblical examples of the outpouring of the Holy Ghost, against which we can compare our own beliefs, experiences and assumptions to see which ones measure up, and which ones need adjustment.

4) But only this reports says nothing about that this will be in future an experience for all believers.

4) The declaration you seek was made in Acts 2:38,39 following Peter's explanation to the assembled group that (paraphrased) "What you're observing and questioning is the outpouring of the Holy Ghost as was prophesied and promised in Joel." ... And verses 38&39 (paraphrased in my wording) "This promise is also to you and everyone else the Lord calls, both now and in the future..including your children. If you'll repent and get baptized, God will give this to you, too." <--which is pretty much what I and others are telling everyone now.

5) And when I add 1.Cor.12 30 to this. Where clear the statement is that not all believers will get the gift of speaking in tongues, as not all believers get the gift of healing.

5) This is the only one that is difficult to explain. Not that it's hard to state. It's just hard to PROVE. To state it simply.... when Paul says "do all speak with tongues" in 1 Cor. 12:30...he is refering to the "diversities of tongues" (speaking in different earthly languages) that just he mentioned in verse 28, (which indeed IS a spiritual gift only given to some). Notice the order of the list in v.28 exactly matches that in v.30. Is it really a stretch to claim that the topics are the same, too? But to understand this to be a reliable truth rather than a flimsy attempt at an explanation, a person would either have to pray about it until God actually answers (which some claim he won't actually do) OR the person would need to have and operate in the "unknown" kind vs. the "different earthly languages" kind, in order to see the difference. To someone who doesn't believe (spiritual) tongues exist, it probably ALL sounds like hogwash...and "Who CARES whether it's type 'U' hogwash or type 'D' hogwash....it's all just hogwash!". The only way for a person to KNOW whether it's hogwash or correct discernment is for the person to seek God until he clearly reveals the truth. If a person refuses to do that, they've only got their own understanding to lean on.

6) How then it can come to such a teaching that the receiving of the Holy Spirit is combined with the gift of speaking in tongues?

if I lost you in Answer #5, I recommend re-reading 1-4, because.... Basically, the statements and examples in Acts that you mentioned are enough to support it. (Again, THEY are the biblical examples to which we can compare our own experiences, and test what our churches have told us). The epistles also help but are based on the idea that the people reading have already received that which is described in Acts.

Love in Jesus to you,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

He definitely was on fire the moment he met Yeshua, but as Saul, a Pharisee, a student of the Law, the leader of a group of men who would hunt Christians down in small numbers (Saul + his men vs 1 or 2 Christians at a time)(he was definitely WEAK before meeting Yeshua) was the epitome of a misguided Jew...

I don't think I can argue with your logic on that one. Well-stated.