What if Adam and Eve ate the tree of life?

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Deade

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Well, that doesn't work because by end of day 3, all kinds of plants were covering the surface of the earth but Genesis 2 says that no shrub had yet grown because God had not caused it to rain. According to Genesis 1, the only 'no plants' days were day 1 and day 2, so if there was a time that 'no shrub had yet grown' should be upto day 2 of Genesis 1, but then God prepared a garden in the East with all kinds of plants- which day should this be?
The plant (or shrub) of the field was not yet but Genesis 1 plainly states the the grass and trees were already there (Gen. 1:11-13). Even though there were no field crops, the earth was watered by a fine mist (fog) that rose out of the earth (Gen. 2:6). :cool:
 
K

KnowMe

Guest
The reason the bible says godliness is a mystery. Note; it doesn't say God is a mystery but godliness is a mystery. How we can see and experience all these things separate from self yet we can not understand our own self/mind/spirit? I think part of this mystery is that God has occupied us and God Himself is these experiences.

Ecc 3:9What does the worker gain from his toil? 10I have seen the burden that God has laid on men to occupy them.11He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men, yet they cannot fathom the work God has done from beginning to end.

Personally, i can explain through experience how the mind creates.

As much as we think time is a reality separate from us, it is actually in us and we must experience passage of time for it to exist. All time can be categorized as past (that which was experienced), present (that which we experience) and future (That which we can predict based on past and present experiences)- in all these, a conscious mind must be present. There can never be 1billion years if humans were not there or a conscious mind.

Placed in a dark room, you would not experience 'passage of time' because you will not be seeing succession of events and the eyes are one of the gateways to the mind even though there will be successive events like from one heart beat to another.

Placed in a rotating room, you will not experience passage of time unless there's a stationery object in that room so that by seeing it you can count how many times you are coming across it thereby creating a concept in the mind called time passage.

All reality is in the dimension of time-space which is a creation of a conscious mind, without time, nothing really exists.
Without time in Job's mind, Job's suffering is nothingness.
God created earth to have a time table, the sun and moon and stars are for that purpose, before the conscious human mind was not formed at that time.
 

posthuman

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Genesis 1 can not say that all plants were available on earth's surface by end of day 3 and Genesis 2 says another thing, that there was no plant and God had to work on a garden. If God worked on a garden, then He created, but how comes this creation is not part of the 6 days creation?
Genesis 2 is not a second creation narrative. It is a brief restatement of Genesis 1. This 'recurrence' is a very common narrative device in Hebrew literature.
 

posthuman

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There are no houses and there are no crushes, only thoughts which actualizes the space-time, once we die, then the real house has crushed because it will be no more.
Do you stop existing when i stop thinking about you?
 
K

KnowMe

Guest
So to say the human mind created the sun nd moon and stars would be a direct contradiction to bible verses that God created things before man so man could understand time.
Do you stop existing when i stop thinking about you?
hehe a human traffic light. though sometimes I assume some folks wish they could just turn other people off.
 
K

KnowMe

Guest
Are souls a reality, did Jesus die just for a thought.
 
K

KnowMe

Guest
Jesus spoke of hour and time as a reality in John 2:4 and 7:6
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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The plant (or shrub) of the field was not yet but Genesis 1 plainly states the the grass and trees were already there (Gen. 1:11-13). Even though there were no field crops, the earth was watered by a fine mist (fog) that rose out of the earth (Gen. 2:6). :cool:
There's no physical reconciliation that can be achieved:

Gen 1: 11Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

Let's agree, by end of day 3 there were all kinds of plants over the surface of the earth.

Gen 2:
4This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.

5Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth a and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6but streams b came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7Then the Lord God formed a man c from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

8Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed.9The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

There are two issues that you are not addressing here:

1. The 'no plants' state takes us back to day 2 in the 6 day creation account or at least early day 3- because after day 3, there was plant cover all over the earth. The problem with this is that from day 1 to day 3 before the plants, we don't see God creating any garden yet it is a creation because it was not there in the beginning and it came about because of God's work- so it is also creation.
What we don't see is God saying "let there be a garden and it was good".

2. If you say that Eden preparation is what took place on creation day 3, then you'll be in a mess still because day 3 events did not take place on a garden in the East.
The wordings in Gen 2 account mean that the plants had been created but had not grown because it had not rained yet. In creation day 3, there's no such thing, the plants grew by the command of God.

3. Putting the Eden events after day 3 is also catastrophic because after creation day 3, plants were all over.

Overally, there's simply not a day we are told that God created Eden yet He finished all His work and rested by day 7.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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God created earth to have a time table, the sun and moon and stars are for that purpose, before the conscious human mind was not formed at that time.
Nope. All that was founded upon the waters:

Psalm 24:1 A Psalm of David. The earth is the LORD’s, and the fullness thereof, the world and all who dwell therein. 2For He has founded it upon the seas and established it upon the waters.

Pro 20: 5The intentions of a man’s heart are deep waters, but a man of understanding draws them out.
Proverbs 18:4The words of a man's mouth are deep waters; the fountain of wisdom is a bubbling brook.

Isa 51:16I have put My words in your mouth,and covered you in the shadow of My hand, to establish the heavens, to found the earth, and to say to Zion, “You are My people.”

The heart of a man was not created, it was part of God:

Job 32:7I thought that age should speak, and many years should teach wisdom. 8But there is a spirit in a man, the breath of the Almighty, that gives him understanding.

Wisdom created: Proverbs 8
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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Genesis 2 is not a second creation narrative. It is a brief restatement of Genesis 1. This 'recurrence' is a very common narrative device in Hebrew literature.
It is not. Read again.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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Are souls a reality, did Jesus die just for a thought.
Souls are real and Jesus died so that we can have a renewed mind.

Rom 12:1Therefore I urge you, brothers, on account of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. 2Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Thenyou will be able to discern what is the good,pleasing, and perfect will of God.

Eph 4:22to put off your former way of life, your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23to be renewed in the spirit of your minds; 24and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

Jesus' death released the Cherub off his duties of guarding the tree of life/truth so that we can have access. The spirit/mind of Christ lives on through His words so if we believe, we receive the mind of Christ:

John 6:
61Aware that His disciples were grumbling about this teaching, Jesus asked them, “Does this offend you?62Then what will happen if you see the Son of Man ascend to where He was before?

63The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life .64However, there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray Him.)

Rom 8:10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet the Spirit gives you life because of righteousness.
 
K

KnowMe

Guest
Souls are real and Jesus died so that we can have a renewed mind.

Rom 12:1Therefore I urge you, brothers, on account of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. 2Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Thenyou will be able to discern what is the good,pleasing, and perfect will of God.

Eph 4:22to put off your former way of life, your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23to be renewed in the spirit of your minds; 24and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

Jesus' death released the Cherub off his duties of guarding the tree of life/truth so that we can have access. The spirit/mind of Christ lives on through His words so if we believe, we receive the mind of Christ:

John 6:
61Aware that His disciples were grumbling about this teaching, Jesus asked them, “Does this offend you?62Then what will happen if you see the Son of Man ascend to where He was before?

63The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life .64However, there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray Him.)

Rom 8:10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet the Spirit gives you life because of righteousness.
So the human flesh has to be real for Jesus died (his human body) not spiritually but physically
 
K

KnowMe

Guest
Nope. All that was founded upon the waters:

Psalm 24:1 A Psalm of David. The earth is the LORD’s, and the fullness thereof, the world and all who dwell therein. 2For He has founded it upon the seas and established it upon the waters.

Pro 20: 5The intentions of a man’s heart are deep waters, but a man of understanding draws them out.
Proverbs 18:4The words of a man's mouth are deep waters; the fountain of wisdom is a bubbling brook.

Isa 51:16I have put My words in your mouth,and covered you in the shadow of My hand, to establish the heavens, to found the earth, and to say to Zion, “You are My people.”

The heart of a man was not created, it was part of God:

Job 32:7I thought that age should speak, and many years should teach wisdom. 8But there is a spirit in a man, the breath of the Almighty, that gives him understanding.

Wisdom created: Proverbs 8
how do we know what a year is? job 32:71 says many years should teach wisdom
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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how do we know what a year is? job 32:71 says many years should teach wisdom
Job is saying that he thought many years means/creates wisdom but he now realizes that wisdom is the spirit/breath of God put in a man that creates the years :LOL:
 
K

KnowMe

Guest
Job is saying that he thought many years means/creates wisdom but he now realizes that wisdom is the spirit/breath of God put in a man that creates the years :LOL:
Well I will say this, if humans leave the earth and travel away from earth all comprehension of time go right out the window.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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So the human flesh has to be real for Jesus died (his human body) not spiritually but physically
Human flesh is not real, it is said that it came from the earth and we know that the earth and all its work shall pass away. Now, passing away doesn't mean disappearing off this earth because its existence is a collective memory of all humans, it only means the wicked shall pass away. Peter puts it nicely here:

2 Pet 3: 5But they deliberately overlook the fact that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6through which the world of that time perished in the flood. 7And by that same word, the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

According to Peter, we are currently living in the new heavens and new earth as compared to the one that was destroyed at Noah's time. As far as i know, only the people were destroyed then meaning that the old world perished with them, the new world existed in Noah's people's mind until today when sin has increased and judgement will again wipe the wicked. The remnants will be a new world. The world is the people because the world is in their mind.
 
K

KnowMe

Guest
there was a chemical reaction before a nuclear reaction in the beginning,
Human flesh is not real, it is said that it came from the earth and we know that the earth and all its work shall pass away. Now, passing away doesn't mean disappearing off this earth because its existence is a collective memory of all humans, it only means the wicked shall pass away. Peter puts it nicely here:

2 Pet 3: 5But they deliberately overlook the fact that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6through which the world of that time perished in the flood. 7And by that same word, the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

According to Peter, we are currently living in the new heavens and new earth as compared to the one that was destroyed at Noah's time. As far as i know, only the people were destroyed then meaning that the old world perished with them, the new world existed in Noah's people's mind until today when sin has increased and judgement will again wipe the wicked. The remnants will be a new world. The world is the people because the world is in their mind.
in your opinion what is the purpose of us humans having senses? why did God create humans to sense.
 
K

KnowMe

Guest
And another question, thou shall not kill, kill what the flesh or soul, if the flesh is but a thought and the soul is real, is that commandment saying humans have the power to kill souls?
 
K

KnowMe

Guest
Matt 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
16,724
10,531
113
78
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
There's no physical reconciliation that can be achieved:

Gen 1: 11Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

Let's agree, by end of day 3 there were all kinds of plants over the surface of the earth.

Gen 2:
4This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.

5Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth a and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6but streams b came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7Then the Lord God formed a man c from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

8Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed.9The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

There are two issues that you are not addressing here:

1. The 'no plants' state takes us back to day 2 in the 6 day creation account or at least early day 3- because after day 3, there was plant cover all over the earth. The problem with this is that from day 1 to day 3 before the plants, we don't see God creating any garden yet it is a creation because it was not there in the beginning and it came about because of God's work- so it is also creation.
What we don't see is God saying "let there be a garden and it was good".

2. If you say that Eden preparation is what took place on creation day 3, then you'll be in a mess still because day 3 events did not take place on a garden in the East.
The wordings in Gen 2 account mean that the plants had been created but had not grown because it had not rained yet. In creation day 3, there's no such thing, the plants grew by the command of God.

3. Putting the Eden events after day 3 is also catastrophic because after creation day 3, plants were all over.

Overally, there's simply not a day we are told that God created Eden yet He finished all His work and rested by day 7.
I keep telling you the shrub, sometimes rendered plant or bush is a field (crop): a plant related to the mist watering them. I think the Revised Version plainly states it:

(RV) Gen. 2:5, 6 "And no plant of the field was yet in the earth, and no herb of the field had yet sprung up: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground; but there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground."

The heart of a man was not created, it was part of God:
Where, oh where did you ever come up with this? So we existed from eternity like God? Hahahaha...