Not By Works

[FollowHisSteps]

How much is based on the word?
Everything because the seed God brings to us is His word, which is why we need
preaching and sharing.

We all have Gods word in front of us. It is very clear and straightforward.
So those who are called will listen and know Jesus's call.

So we can know simply who are His sheep. Those whose hearts love Jesus, in thought
word and deed. So if obedience causes you harm and difficulty, seek the Lords face
and find out why. The Lord desires we work through the issues to the point of obedience,
to have the faith to believe the cross shows He will answer our prayers, Amen.

 

[Hevosmies]

Let me give you an example from my own life. I have a powerful testimony of when I was saved. Even after this powerful salvation, confusion came when I joined a Christian discussion group and there were some people who took extra interest in me and started to convince me about Calvinism being truth. I just couldn't make any sense about what they said. I was so confused, but when I finally understood it, I thought it was God was opening my eyes to His truth. I wanted to learn more about it though and make sure, since I had been in false denominations before. I wanted to know the truth so bad that I hardly ate and sleep for the next couple of weeks while I studied; I even thought about it in my sleep. That's how important it was to me. I finally could see that Calvinism was false. But what would have been horrible is if I kept those false beliefs that I felt when I first 'got it'.
What I am trying to say is that just because you 'got it' concerning the faith alone doctrine, it doesn't mean it is the true light. KWIM?

Hey there. I want to apologize for being hard on you.

Anyhow: You are right that just because you "got it" doesnt mean its true. We can all be dilligent in seeking the truth.

Atleast your heart is in the right place, if you hardly ate and slept due to reading up on the Scriptures! While we may disagree i respect that kind of an approach!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Are you kidding? Read what Paul is boasting about:

2 Corinthians 1:12 Now this is our boast: Our conscience testifies that we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially in our relations with you, with integrity and godly sincerity. We have done so, relying not on worldly wisdom but on God's grace.

Did you read that?
Paul says this is our boast: the way they conducted themselves.

Read this scripture:

2 Corinthians 7:14 I had boasted to him about you, and you have not embarrassed me. But just as everything we said to you was true, so our boasting about you to Titus has proved to be true as well.

What is Paul boasting in? He is boasting in the conduct of another person!

Galatians 6:14
But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Someone mentioned gangs

It is interesting in a house group, if someone says something and everyone in the group
says the opposite and calls them a non-believer that would be called ganging up
on them.

So what is the groups trigger points. Obey Jesus. Believe Jesus means to enable us to
walk like Him. That sin is evil and we need to repent, turn from doing evil and walk
in the ways of righteousness.

Now this is odd, because all 4 points are biblical and our calling in Christ.
The answer to this behaviour is the 4 points contradict a theology outside scripture
which demands allegiance above the word of God, and to defend it people will use
false teacher, false gospel words without real understanding.

And for me this is the fruit of false teaching. If any teaching contradicts Christ, it
is not from Him. And no matter how many hang on to the words still it is the same.

Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it
Luke 11:28

Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
1 John 2:6

He must turn from evil and do good; he must seek peace and pursue it.
1 Peter 3:11

 

[YourTruthGod]

Obey what? Obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. (Romans 1:16) *Not to be confused with multiple acts of obedience/works which follow believing the gospel and becoming saved. In Romans 10:16, we read - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” Choosing to believe the gospel by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) is the act of obedience that saves.

Obeying God is not, “Don’t do anything but believe.”

Do you really think that God got nullified all His words in the past about obeying Him?

…unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven; Matthew 5:32.

What righteousness is that? Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works. Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.

Of course we have to have the righteousness of Christ imputed to us.

Read the passage about that, it says do not take away what God says. God says to obey!

…unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven; Matthew 18:3.

Here we see how Jesus characterized conversion. It pictures faith as the simple, helpless, trusting, dependence of those who have no resources or achievements of their own to offer or commend themselves with.

Helpless? No way are we helpless.

We are to have the same type of faith that little children exhibit. The most trusting people in the world are children. Children have not acquired the obstructions to faith that often come with advanced education and exposure to the philosophies of men. Christ calls us to have the same kind of trust that little children naturally have. People must become as little children in humbly recognizing their helplessness in attaining the kingdom by their own merits and realize they are 100% dependent on Jesus Christ for salvation.

Humbling yourself like a child is about being ready to do everything God says to do. What does God say to do? God says to repent of your sins.

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven

In regards to Matthew 7:21-23, I'll never forget, prior to my conversion several years ago, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I read Matthew 7:22 and thought to myself, wow! These many people accomplished all of that, "prophesied in His name, cast out demons, and did many wonderful works" but that still was not "good enough?" Then I thought to myself at that time, how am I going to "top that" and be "good enough?" Such is the mindset of someone who believes that salvation is by works.

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Sound familiar? Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their attempted external obedience was stained with sin. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father.

You are not reading the whole scripture and understanding.

Jesus says they are EVIL DOERS.

That means they did NOT repent of their sins.

They casted out demons to other people, and prophesied in Jesus’ name---BUT WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH REPENTING of sins and living a life that God wants us to live?

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people were not true converts.

The Bible says we do not KNOW HIM UNLESS WE OBEY HIM.

1 John 2:4 Whoever says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person.

Without faith it's impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6) no matter how many alleged wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain eternal life.

It is never ever vain to obey God’s powerful Word.

 

[YourTruthGod]

You miss the whole point of the gspel

We OBEY BECAUSE we have been saved.

We are SAVED because we CAN”T obey

You keep putting the cart before the horse.

We are NOT saved because we CAN'T obey!!!

The message that saves is meant for those WHO DO RIGHT!


The gospel is given to those who do right: Acts 13:26 "Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.

The message is given to children of Abraham who obey God and to GENTILES who do right by FEARING God.


Who is ACCEPTABLE TO GOD?

Acts 10:35 but that in every nation those who fear Him and live good lives are acceptable to Him.

 

[YourTruthGod]

If its not hrd to do what God told us to do. We would have obeyed God and jesus could have stayed in heaven instead of enduring the cross.

Yes, it is all about you!

Jesus came to die for the sins of the world and to reconcile us to God.

That means if Jesus didn't come to die and save you personally, then he could not live inside you and put you in God.

 

[TruthTalk]

What happens if a Christian dies with unconfessed sin?

Do you believe a Christian can lose salvation? If so, how many unconfessed sins can a Christian have before they lose salvation?

Hi Budman, No condemnation for those who are in Christ, all of our sins, plural, are forgiven, past, present, and future. The clincher is that all Christians need to confess our sins daily and sometimes moment by moment if called for, so that we maintain a close and meaningful relationship with the Father.

Our position is secure we are justified by a Holy God, all sins of commission and omission are forgiven and "we cannot lose our eternal salvation" but of course you know this already. However our relationship needs confession of sins so that we have an intimate loving relationship with Abba our Father.

The correct answer to your question is, "No you cannot lose your salvation."

Romans6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1John1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness

 

[YourTruthGod]

Galatians 6:14
But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world

Looks like you are not going to accept all the scriptures. Jesus you cannot put even one scripture aside.

So you didn't like those two scriptures I gave about Paul boasting in what they did, how about these ones:

2 Corinthians 12:6 Even if I should choose to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be speaking the truth.

Paul says he would rather die than be deprived of his boast:

1 Corinthians 9:15 But I have not used any of these rights. And I am not writing this in the hope that you will do such things for me, for I would rather die than allow anyone to deprive me of this boast.

Obvious boasting from Paul, he actually says it plainly and proudly:

2 Corinthians 11:10 As surely as the truth of Christ is in me, this boasting of mine will not be silenced in the regions of Achaia. 11 Why? Because I do not love you? God knows I do! 12 But I will keep on doing what I am doing, in order to undercut those who want an opportunity to be regarded as our equals in the things they boast about.

 

[VCO]

Will you consider something carefully I want to say to you about what you so nicely explained to me here? Please listen carefully...

Many people here are saying it. Most say it is the way to get saved, and how obeying has nothing ever to do with our salvation after believing. Some even say that our believing didn't have anything to do with our getting saved (Calvinism). So please stop saying nobody is saying don't obey God. You are saying to believe and do not do anything else and that that is obeying.

Faith without right action IS EMPTY no matter how strong and wonderful faith is. We are not saved by just faith and then a wait and see if that faith was a live saving faith if the person obeys later. I have actually had people argue that to me---they say, "faith alone to get saved and then after they are saved they will start to obey". Then I say what if they don't start obeying? The person said to me, "Then their faith was not real."
Did you hear that? That means then faith alone IS dead and cannot save---just like James says.

See! That is what you are saying too, just like I said you do, even though you deny it.

We are not saved through faith in Christ in the first place unless you do something, like humble yourself and repent of a sin and called on Jesus.

Believe me, I understand exactly what you are saying. You explain your beliefs well! It's just that you need to really consider harder what I am saying.

Catholics don't believe in faith alone, or works that Jesus tells us. Jesus says to humble yourself and repent; not, baptize babies who can do no such thing.

I really do understand how hard it must be to think you finally see and have your eyes opened by God, but then have to give it up because it was false. I tell you though, the true light is better than that.
Let me give you an example from my own life. I have a powerful testimony of when I was saved. Even after this powerful salvation, confusion came when I joined a Christian discussion group and there were some people who took extra interest in me and started to convince me about Calvinism being truth. I just couldn't make any sense about what they said. I was so confused, but when I finally understood it, I thought it was God was opening my eyes to His truth. I wanted to learn more about it though and make sure, since I had been in false denominations before. I wanted to know the truth so bad that I hardly ate and sleep for the next couple of weeks while I studied; I even thought about it in my sleep. That's how important it was to me. I finally could see that Calvinism was false. But what would have been horrible is if I kept those false beliefs that I felt when I first 'got it'.
What I am trying to say is that just because you 'got it' concerning the faith alone doctrine, it doesn't mean it is the true light. KWIM?

And therefore you fell for a deceiving spirit, and failed to listen to the Holy Spirit. That may sound unkind, but telling people the TRUTH is IS MUCH KINDER than allowing them to continue in the LIE. You Studied on your OWN, right. You were not Discipled, am I right? That is the SUREST was to follow after a DECEIVING SPIRIT.


Ephesians 4:11-14 (ESV)
11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,
12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.

1 Timothy 4:1 (NIV)
1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.


No wonder much of what you say, contradicts SCRIPTURE. You were NEVER Discipled, and you ignored the fact that you were to submit yourself to someone who was qualified to Disciple you.


Matthew 28:19-20 (NIV)
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Acts 14:21 (YLT)
21 Having proclaimed good news also to that city, and having discipled many, they turned back to Lystra, and Iconium, and Antioch,

 

[YourTruthGod]

And therefore you fell for a deceiving spirit, and failed to listen to the Holy Spirit. That may sound unkind, but telling people the TRUTH is IS MUCH KINDER than allowing them to continue in the LIE. You Studied on your OWN, right. You were not Discipled, am I right? That is the SUREST was to follow after a DECEIVING SPIRIT.


Ephesians 4:11-14 (ESV)
11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,
12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.

1 Timothy 4:1 (NIV)
1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.


No wonder much of what you say, contradicts SCRIPTURE. You were NEVER Discipled, and you ignored the fact that you were to submit yourself to someone who was qualified to Disciple you.


Matthew 28:19-20 (NIV)
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Acts 14:21 (YLT)
21 Having proclaimed good news also to that city, and having discipled many, they turned back to Lystra, and Iconium, and Antioch,

You want to talk about 'deceiving'?

James 1:16 Don't be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters.


James 1:22 Be doers of the word, and not hearers only. Otherwise, you are deceiving yourselves.


Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men


Did you read all those warnings about deceiving yourself?
Do you see one warning about don't do anything but have faith and nothing else to get saved?

 

[YourTruthGod]

Three questions:

1. Is salvation a gift?

2. Is grace unmerited?

3. How many sins have yet to be atoned/paid for?


Answers:

1. Yes (Romans 4:4-6, 5:12-17, 6:23, John 4:10, 2 Corinthians 9:15, Ephesians 2:8-9, 3:7, 4:7-8, Acts 2:38)

2. Yes (2 Timothy 1:9, Romans 3:28, 11:5-6, John 3:16, 5:24, 6:28-29, 47, Galatians 3:8, 26)

3. ZERO (Romans 6:10, 1 John 1:7, 29, 2:2, Colossians 1:20, 22 2:13, Hebrews 10:14)

Case closed.

No such thing as unmerited gift in the Bible.

God gives the gift to whomever He wants to give it, and He says he gives it to those who obey Him.

As for our sins being atoned/paid for--- No sin is paid for you personally until you repent of it.

 

[YourTruthGod]

What happens if a Christian dies with unconfessed sin?

Do you believe a Christian can lose salvation? If so, how many unconfessed sins can a Christian have before they lose salvation?

Could you give me an example of the unconfessed sins?

 

[YourTruthGod]

Hey there. I want to apologize for being hard on you.

Anyhow: You are right that just because you "got it" doesnt mean its true. We can all be dilligent in seeking the truth.

Atleast your heart is in the right place, if you hardly ate and slept due to reading up on the Scriptures! While we may disagree i respect that kind of an approach!

Wow, you made my hair stand up. Thanks for the apology and for having true empathy.

 

[oldethennew]

No such thing as unmerited gift in the Bible.

God gives the gift to whomever He wants to give it, and He says he gives it to those who obey Him.

As for our sins being atoned/paid for--- No sin is paid for you personally until you repent of it.

================================================================================================

hub and I were definitely not in correct 'obedience' at the time of our calling' - we were to ignorant...

 

[BillG]

No such thing as unmerited gift in the Bible.

God gives the gift to whomever He wants to give it, and He says he gives it to those who obey Him.

As for our sins being atoned/paid for--- No sin is paid for you personally until you repent of it.

I beg to disagree.

God's grace is unmerited favour.
If we could earn his grace then it is merited.

God gives the gift of unmerited favour to those who believe in him.

John 3:16-21
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.

Are you a proponent of 'Lordship Salvation?

 

[YourTruthGod]

================================================================================================

hub and I were definitely not in correct 'obedience' at the time of our calling' - we were to ignorant...

Did anyone tell you that you and your husband had to repent of your sins?

 

[oldethennew]

uh, huh...

 

[TruthTalk]

you first.

which sins have you given up? what day and time?

Hi gb9, my answer would be the correct answer -- I am not "sinless" but from the time I was born again up to today. "I-sin-less." Sinless Perfectionism is a lie, but holy living is a life long pursuit of the believer.

The self-righteous modern day pharisee's think they can merit or work for their eternal life. A life long pursuit of holy living is our "daily walk with Jesus", it is how Christian's live out their life in a practical way and have fellowship with Abba our Father.

Romans 7:15 -- Paul said this about struggling with his sin;
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do

Romans 7:24,25 Paul's conclusion about the struggle with his sin.
24) What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25) Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with my mind I serve the law of God, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

 

[BillG]

Believing is like drinking his blood. We have to do more than just believe. Obeying is like eating his flesh. After we drink his blood and eat his flesh, he gives us pure water to drink, the Holy Spirit.

I beg to disagree.

We can't eat of his flesh and drink his blood (I'm talking about communion here and not transubstantiation) if the Holy Spirit is not in us.
Yes many do but if they are not believers the Holy Spirit is not in them.

We can take communion as belivers after we have the Holy Spirit in us and it's personal.

Communion is not obeying to be saved but it is in rememberance of what Jesus has done for us.

And I say it's not to be taken lightly.