Not By Works

[Hevosmies]

Are you kidding? I am being condemned by people here for saying we have to obey.
Go study some more. I tried to help you.

I am not against obedience. I already digged up the post where you say faith alone people have not obeyed Jesus in any way and have not stopped even ONE sin, dont make me dig up teh post where you also gave a LAUNDRY LIST of things to do, to be saved, and its an IMPOSSIBLE LIST according to which nobody is saved.

Also I got bad news for you, if you believe what you preach, you just lost your salvation a couple of days ago by bearing false witness and saying that faith alone people have not stopped even one sin. What worse, you have yet to apologize for it.

Tough path to be on! What are you gonna do now? Send Jesus back on the cross to die again?
Your Lego- plan of salvation sucks!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Are you kidding? I am being condemned by people here for saying we have to obey.
Go study some more. I tried to help you.

No your not being condemned because your saying anything about obedience, Stop tryign to be the martyr

You do not even know the argument. No wonder you can’t respond to the issues.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Oh wow. he found the red X.. as if that helps him any..

 

[Hevosmies]

Here comes the red X spam from the man bearing false witness and refusing to apologize.

You are a proud man, I have apologized many-a times on this forum. Yet you cannot even apologize once, when proven to be bearing false witness. I think you should, its a sin, and you champion repenting of sins, right?

 

[YourTruthGod]

The only time ‘faith alone’ is mentioned in the Bible, it is to tell us what kind of faith not to have.


James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.


Faith alone without any right action does not save. Apostle James says such faith is DEAD.

Many denominations call that dead faith ‘saving faith’.


James 2:14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?

James 2:17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

James tells us faith alone cannot save a man.

That “dead faith” is NOT the most important kind of faith ever known.

Faith alone without works is dead. Our faith must be alive. Faith with obedience is living faith.

The works we do not have to do to justify ourselves is be circumcised, observe special days, and sacrifice animals. Those are the works that Paul is speaking about, but people misunderstand Paul to their destruction. What insanity it is to think Paul is rebuking people from obeying Jesus.
Peter tells us that people misunderstand Paul. Right after Peter says that, he warns us to obey. See 2 Peter 3:16, and 17.

Abraham was saved by faith and that was before circumcision. The scriptures say Abraham believed in and obeyed God, even before circumcision!

Abraham was not saved by faith alone because faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone.

The scriptures say that Abraham obeyed.

I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws.” Genesis 26:4-5

James 2:22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.

James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

Faith alone is dead like a dead body.

James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

Faith alone doesn't first save and then it was really real if later the person obeys something.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

For the record,

People are decrying those who are placing obedience (works) as a means of being or maitnianing salvation.

Not obedience itself.

We (those decryign legalism) believe obedience is a natural result of being saved, as we are made new creatures.

Yet they say we are condemning them because they teach obedience. This is a LIE. And these people should be held acountable for thier LIES

Of Course, God will hold them accountable. Our wish is they repent and join us

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The only time ‘faith alone’ is mentioned in the Bible, it is to tell us what kind of faith not to have.


James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.


Faith alone without any right action does not save. Apostle James says such faith is DEAD.

Many denominations call that dead faith ‘saving faith’.


James 2:14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?

James 2:17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

James tells us faith alone cannot save a man.

That “dead faith” is NOT the most important kind of faith ever known.

Faith alone without works is dead. Our faith must be alive. Faith with obedience is living faith.

The works we do not have to do to justify ourselves is be circumcised, observe special days, and sacrifice animals. Those are the works that Paul is speaking about, but people misunderstand Paul to their destruction. What insanity it is to think Paul is rebuking people from obeying Jesus.
Peter tells us that people misunderstand Paul. Right after Peter says that, he warns us to obey. See 2 Peter 3:16, and 17.

Abraham was saved by faith and that was before circumcision. The scriptures say Abraham believed in and obeyed God, even before circumcision!

Abraham was not saved by faith alone because faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone.

The scriptures say that Abraham obeyed.

I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws.” Genesis 26:4-5

James 2:22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.

James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

Faith alone is dead like a dead body.

James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

Faith alone doesn't first save and then it was really real if later the person obeys something.

For the umpteenth time

James is speaking against people who CLAIM they have faith, Not faith alone

A dead faith is NOT FAITH..

 

[Hevosmies]

I see red X's and temper tantrums, but no apologies yet for bearing false witness.

What happened to all that talk about repentance?

At the end of the day, this is beating a dead horse.

 

[dcontroversal]

I pray it was not a white christian. God did not tell us to do this..

Was a white Australian....he has a 37 page manifesto online....crazy.....he said..."Let's get the party started" right before he walked into the Mosque and mowing people down like grass....he was training in New Zealand and was gonna do it in AU but decided NZ had a "target rich enviroment"........I am 100% against Islam, but not for mowing people down like weeds......

 

[YourTruthGod]

Hebrews 11:31
By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies in peace, did not perish with those who were disobedient.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hebrews 11:31
By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies in peace, did not perish with those who were disobedient.

So now your equating physical death with spiritual death?

 

[dcontroversal]

He didn't know them because they were LAWLESS....
Not how YOU mean it...that they weren't born again.

Where in that whole passage is the idea of being born again even brought up??
NOWHERE!


Mathew 7:13-23

The Narrow and Wide Gates

13“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
New American Standard Bible
14“For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.


A Tree and Its Fruit

15“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
16“You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
17“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18“A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20“So then, you will know them by their fruits.

21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’




Nowhere in the above verses is being born again even mentioned.
Jesus only mentioned this 3 or 4 times.

He DID, instead, speak of good works/deeds and being lawful and obeying God.

It would be good for everyone to understand this....

False.....you are embellishing the text just like the snake in the garden.....He never KNEW THEM.....they were never SAVED AND THEN LOST IT.....you must be dense and or remaining blind to this truth....another set if verses you twist to support your false view.....You are running out of time Fran to come clean and be honest on your own with the people of this site

 

[dcontroversal]

I never said he remained doing those things, So once again, YOU ARE A LIAR!

My point was. Paul still concidered himself a chief of all sinners. He looked at his WHOLE LIFE OF SIN (past present and future) Not like you. The pharisee. Who claims to be sinless. While breaking Gods commandments over and over unable to even see it.

Amen to that........he is just another deceiver.....the fact he claims special revelation from God that only a few people know equates to a deceiving liar........false!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amen to that........he is just another deceiver.....the fact he claims special revelation from God that only a few people know equates to a deceiving liar........false!!

Thats should have clued us in!!

 

[dcontroversal]

2 Timothy 1:7
For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

Romans 8:15
For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”

All these lawyers who want to put people under fear. Saying God will only accept you IF you obey him, are again trying to put you under fear, Take your sound mind away, and denies the love of God, And reject the thought that God gave us the spirit which gives us POWER to obey him, Because HE ADOPTED US.

WE OBAY BECAUSE WE ARE SAVED, NOT TO GET SAVED! They have it backwards. And will in the end, suffer for their pride and refusal to repent.

Everyone on this thread that peddles a losable salvation that is gained, maintained or kept by works teaches and peddles the same thing the MANY teach that end up getting cast.......They claim Jesus as LORD bit expect to enter based upon their works......false

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Here comes the red X spam from the man bearing false witness and refusing to apologize.

You are a proud man, I have apologized many-a times on this forum. Yet you cannot even apologize once, when proven to be bearing false witness. I think you should, its a sin, and you champion repenting of sins, right?

Not sure wha

I am not against obedience. I already digged up the post where you say faith alone people have not obeyed Jesus in any way and have not stopped even ONE sin, dont make me dig up teh post where you also gave a LAUNDRY LIST of things to do, to be saved, and its an IMPOSSIBLE LIST according to which nobody is saved.

Also I got bad news for you, if you believe what you preach, you just lost your salvation a couple of days ago by bearing false witness and saying that faith alone people have not stopped even one sin. What worse, you have yet to apologize for it.

Tough path to be on! What are you gonna do now? Send Jesus back on the cross to die again?
Your Lego- plan of salvation sucks!

Hev, this "saying that faith alone people have not stopped even one sin" what does this mean?

Could it have been a miss-understanding?
Some talk about bearing false witness when it is not.

If all men are sinners in the flesh 24/7 then I am a sinner.
If men can be washed clean and forgiven of sin in the past then they are no longer sinners
but redeemed. Sometimes such descriptions or ideas applied to others are true.

So if I say though "faith alone unbelief" means no sin is forgiven, in the context of that phrase
as I say it, it is true. Forgiveness only applies for true belief or faith, because it is Jesus who
forgives those who rightly believe in Him. I could believe in Christ like a lucky charm, it does
not make me forgiven. So one could say someone is bearing false witness when they are speaking
the truth in their world view.

It is why talking sin and sinning in this regard is often just disputing and causing friction.
People bear false witness that I am a works salvationist, but so what, it is their problem.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Everyone on this thread that peddles a losable salvation that is gained, maintained or kept by works teaches and peddles the same thing the MANY teach that end up getting cast.......They claim Jesus as LORD bit expect to enter based upon their works......false

We believe scripture, about the ability to deny Christ after coming to faith.

So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God.
Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves.
Rom 14:22

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Burn the strawman!
Quote me someone who has said or even implied that its SHAMEFUL to obey God?

I have seen conversations where people want to say no matter how we obey God,
if we are not a believer or a believer but doing something in the flesh it then becomes evil.

Now what makes such statement awkward in this arena it can be hours before in one post
but it sticks in the mind and that individual does believe this idea. I have heard this before.

So we have to trust people and their positions and how they are expressing it.
It is partly why I have given up wondering what others believe because they change it or
move the emphasis so it just becomes embarrassing.

Have you heard of this idea that only things done in the right motive are from God and therefore
good?

 

[FollowHisSteps]

"I have realized that they have not obeyed Jesus in any way and have not stopped one sin"

Is it possible to not obey Jesus in any way or know this has been done?
How can you stop one sin? Sin is an action at one point in time. Once it has happened
it has happened. It cannot be stopped.
Repeated sinful behaviour can be stopped, but that is different.

So for me the concepts do not add up and are probably referring to ideas I do not understand
or grasp.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How can one who Was Gods enemy, Able to do nothing but serve self. Who has repented and come to Christ, Adopted by Him, Experienced first hand his love and his forgiveness. Experience the fact that everytime they do what God wants, Life is blessed. Everytime they take things into their own hands, Things fall apaart. And life is not blessed. Witnesses of miracles and how God has changed others and blessed them, All of a sudden turn 180 degrees and return back to what they were BEFORE they came to christ?

Sorry, But those who think one can experience God and change back do not know or understand reality. Most likely. Because they have never really witnessed Gods love, or they would never think such a thing!