Temple in the Millenium, does it contradict the Gospel?

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Hevosmies

Hevosmies

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I have read Ezekiel 40-48 and surely this hasnt literally ever happened. Which leads everyone(almost) to agree this is yet future, and most say it happens in the millennium.

Aside from the reinstitution of animal sacrifices, when we read these chapters we come across some things that seem to be very anti- New Covenant language:

Ezekiel 44:9 This is what the Sovereign Lord says: No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and flesh is to enter my sanctuary, not even the foreigners who live among the Israelites.

Isnt this completely opposite of Paul's message of "circumcision is nothing"? How are we to assume we would be going back to a worse system in the future? I realize that all the Christians would be in resurrection bodies, but to me it sounds like a DOWNGRADE to go from being in heaven, to getting a resurrection body and watching a bunch of animals get slaughtered and maybe even your family members live in the flesh and possibly dying/rebelling in the end. Sounds like i'd rather stay in heaven lol.

Another contradiction is: Jesus said His body is the temple now, in the new covenant, NOT a physical stone building somewhere:

John 2:19
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

What sayeth ye? Im especially looking forward to EG, Ahwatukee, VCO, dcon, TheDivineWatermark contributing! BUT ALL COMERS WELCOME THOUGH :cool: lets keep it friendly this time
 
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TheDivineWatermark

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May I first ask you whether you believe that Zechariah 14:16-19 is yet "future" (following His Second Coming to the earth)? meaning, describing future events?
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

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TheDivineWatermark said:
May I first ask you whether you believe that Zechariah 14:16-19 is yet "future" (following His Second Coming to the earth)? meaning, describing future events?
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I dont believe thats ever happened so it has to be future, imo. Reading the previous verses.
 
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TheDivineWatermark

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Hevosmies said:
You tell me! You are the expert.

I think because if they dont go = no rain! They have to go worship the Lord!
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I guess I could ask it like this: why do they have to "GO" there... why shouldn't it be sufficient for them to "let us draw near" without having to move a muscle, lift a finger, relocate their bods [like is true for US presently] in order to "GO" there?? [Hebrews 10:19-22]
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

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TheDivineWatermark said:
I guess I could ask it like this: why do they have to "GO" there... why shouldn't it be sufficient for them to "let us draw near" without having to move a muscle, lift a finger, relocate their bods [like is true for US presently] in order to "GO" there?? [Hebrews 10:19-22]
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I dont know. For some reason they have to keep the feast of tabernacles. Clearly they arent Christians, but surviving gentiles.
 
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TheDivineWatermark

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Well, I believe that only those [mortals] who are "righteous [i.e. saints / believers]" will ENTER the MK time period (at the time of His Second Coming to the earth); and that those later BORN to them are not "born automatically righteous," so there's them too, to consider here... But I do not believe any "unrighteous" of the nations ENTER the MK time period [Matt25:31-34], just to be clear on that.

Would not those who "GO" be operating as "faithful" ones? [believers / saints (I won't object to the term "Christians" if someone wants to use that term :D )]
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

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TheDivineWatermark said:
Well, I believe that only those [mortals] who are "righteous [i.e. saints / believers]" will ENTER the MK time period (at the time of His Second Coming to the earth); and that those later BORN to them are not "born automatically righteous," so there's them too, to consider here... But I do not believe any "unrighteous" of the nations ENTER the MK time period [Matt25:31-34], just to be clear on that.

Would not those who "GO" be operating as "faithful" ones? [believers / saints (I won't object to the term "Christians" if someone wants to use that term :D )]
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Yes sure. but since this is after the cross, in the MK. WHy does the unclean uncircumcised gentile vs clean jew come into play again? Thats my point, sounds anti-gospel to me!

Or is it that the time and opportunity for those guys to be part of that one body of Christ has come and gone? So now they have to pay the consequences.
 
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TheDivineWatermark

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Hevosmies said:
So now they have to pay the consequences.
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Isaiah 27:12-13 also says "to worship the Lord in the holy mount AT JERUSALEM," as well does Isaiah 24:21-23 refer to that location (recall the parallels I've pointed out between Rev19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5 with that of Isa24:21-22[23])... so why would THAT be considered "consequences" (as though that were some kind of "negative") rather than a privilege and honour? (He Himself now being present, upon His "RETURN" there).



[as a side note, personally, I believe Tabernacles was when He was "born," so perhaps a kind of "celebration," in that regard, :)yearly--Nevertheless, it doesn't sound like it is meant to be a DREAD, do you??]


EDIT: also recall all of the "BLESSED" parallels to Daniel 12:12 (<--which verse, I believe, is the START of the MK time period, point in time)
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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Hevosmies said:
Ezekiel 44:9 This is what the Sovereign Lord says: No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and flesh is to enter my sanctuary, not even the foreigners who live among the Israelites.

Isnt this completely opposite of Paul's message of "circumcision is nothing"?
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Actually this is perfectly consistent with the New Covenant. God will require each one to have been regenerated, thus circumcised in the heart. And outward circumcision will reflect inward reality. But Israel will be separate from the surrounding saved nations, therefore foreigners will not be allowed within redeemed and restored Israel (strictly reserved for the 12 tribes) without meeting those conditions.

Again, we really cannot fully understand how everything will look like during the Millennium and beyond. But the temple described in Ezekiel can only be built AFTER the Second Coming of Christ and the redemption and restoration of Israel and Jerusalem. It is more than likely that the future third temple -- desecrated by the Antichrist -- will be destroyed in the great earthquake which will occur in Jerusalem at that time.
 
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TheDivineWatermark

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#12
EDIT: also recall all of the "BLESSED" parallels to Daniel 12:12 [re: living/mortal persons] (<--which verse, I believe, is the START of the MK time period, point in time) which "BLESSED" passages I've listed in the past
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

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Nehemiah6 said:
Actually this is perfectly consistent with the New Covenant. God will require each one to have been regenerated, thus circumcised in the heart. And outward circumcision will reflect inward reality. But Israel will be separate from the surrounding saved nations, therefore foreigners will not be allowed within redeemed and restored Israel (strictly reserved for the 12 tribes) without meeting those conditions.

Again, we really cannot fully understand how everything will look like during the Millennium and beyond. But the temple described in Ezekiel can only be built AFTER the Second Coming of Christ and the redemption and restoration of Israel and Jerusalem. It is more than likely that the future third temple -- desecrated by the Antichrist -- will be destroyed in the great earthquake which will occur in Jerusalem at that time.
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Hey brother Nehemiah. Thanks for contributing, sorry I forgot to mention your name there! You know i value your opinion greatly as well.

Could you tell me what do you mean by outward circumcision will reflect inward reality? We arent required to be circumcised(physically) in the new covenant.

And in the previous verses there it talks about the gentiles being unclean and uncircumcised, so is it impossible for those people in that era to be saved by faith in Jesus sacrifice anymore? Because Jesus is in front of them now, as their King on earth. So they have to do the kingdom rituals etc. to be saved?
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

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TheDivineWatermark said:
Isaiah 27:12-13 also says "to worship the Lord in the holy mount AT JERUSALEM," as well does Isaiah 24:21-23 refer to that location (recall the parallels I've pointed out between Rev19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5 with that of Isa24:21-22[23])... so why would THAT be considered "consequences" (as though that were some kind of "negative") rather than a privilege and honour? (He Himself now being present, upon His "RETURN" there).



[as a side note, personally, I believe Tabernacles was when He was "born," so perhaps a kind of "celebration," in that regard, :)yearly--Nevertheless, it doesn't sound like it is meant to be a DREAD, do you??]


EDIT: also recall all of the "BLESSED" parallels to Daniel 12:12 (<--which verse, I believe, is the START of the MK time period, point in time)
Click to expand...
I believe its very negative to have to sacrifice animals for those who inherit MK in the flesh. hence why I said in my OP that its a downgrade from being in heaven. I'd rather stay in heaven than come back to earth and watch people go back to sacrificing animals and things like that. Thats why I said it in the way i said "pay the consequences"

I understand its not all negative, since lifespans are increased, environment cleaned up, health is perfect, cities are safe, etc. Those are great things!
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

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Nehemiah6 said:
But Israel will be separate from the surrounding saved nations, therefore foreigners will not be allowed within redeemed and restored Israel (strictly reserved for the 12 tribes) without meeting those conditions.
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This is sort of how I see that as well... in Scripture it always shows them as "distinct" in these future contexts (of the MK time period [even in the tribulation period, following our Rapture]), unlike "the Church which is His body" [in "this present age [singular]"] (which is made up of both Jew and Gentile, but wherein there is no distinction in our standing before God "IN CHRIST")
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

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TheDivineWatermark said:
This is sort of how I see that as well... in Scripture it always shows them as "distinct" in these future contexts (of the MK time period [even in the tribulation period, following our Rapture]), unlike "the Church which is His body" [in "this present age [singular]"] (which is made up of both Jew and Gentile, but wherein there is no distinction in our standing before God "IN CHRIST")
Click to expand...
Nehemiah6 said:
But Israel will be separate from the surrounding saved nations, therefore foreigners will not be allowed within redeemed and restored Israel (strictly reserved for the 12 tribes) without meeting those conditions.

Again, we really cannot fully understand how everything will look like during the Millennium and beyond. But the temple described in Ezekiel can only be built AFTER the Second Coming of Christ and the redemption and restoration of Israel and Jerusalem. It is more than likely that the future third temple -- desecrated by the Antichrist -- will be destroyed in the great earthquake which will occur in Jerusalem at that time.
Click to expand...
Question to you brothers: The entire earth will be blessed during MK right? Including the gentile nations, right? I think we can all agree on that? Where do the gentile nations learn the ways of the Lord, if they cant enter Jerusalem without being circumcised? Will there be some raptured saints teaching them in these gentile nations? Anyone know? any guesses? any verses?
 
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TheDivineWatermark

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Personally, I believe ALL saints of ALL times will have been "resurrected" in time for the START of the MK time period (i.e. like Daniel / OT saint, per Dan12:13 and Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, per Matt8:11 and its parallel), and then the specific wording of Daniel 7:27, so there will be all that. :) [ALL saints of ALL times, present FOR that... not saying "the Church which is His body" will be limited to that location, solely... not sure on that :) ]



Here's a quote from William Kelly on the other issue (take it or leave it, but I think it's fairly accurate :) ):

[quoting]

"All turns on Christ. If He is known to faith while He is on high on the Father's throne, a heavenly relationship is formed; and "as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly." But when He is manifested in glory and takes the earth, there will be a corresponding change in the relative place of His people. They will be no longer heavenly but earthly; and the Holy Spirit will not form them into the one body of a heavenly Head, but place them as Israel and the nations in their due positions, and of course, distinct; though the old enmity and jealous alienation shall have passed away under the reign of Him whom all own as Jehovah, king over the whole earth. Hence also earthly distinctions as priests and Levites, with the other features of an earthly worship, are again set up according to the will of God, instead of a common place of heavenly nearness in Christians as now."

--William Kelly, commentary on Ezekiel 44 [bold and underline mine]
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

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TheDivineWatermark said:
Personally, I believe ALL saints of ALL times will have been "resurrected" in time for the START of the MK time period (i.e. like Daniel / OT saint, per Dan12:13 and Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, per Matt8:11 and its parallel), and then the specific wording of Daniel 7:27, so there will be all that. :) [ALL saints of ALL times, present FOR that... not saying "the Church which is His body" will be limited to that location, solely... not sure on that :) ]



Here's a quote from William Kelly on the other issue (take it or leave it, but I think it's fairly accurate :) ):

[quoting]

"All turns on Christ. If He is known to faith while He is on high on the Father's throne, a heavenly relationship is formed; and "as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly." But when He is manifested in glory and takes the earth, there will be a corresponding change in the relative place of His people. They will be no longer heavenly but earthly; and the Holy Spirit will not form them into the one body of a heavenly Head, but place them as Israel and the nations in their due positions, and of course, distinct; though the old enmity and jealous alienation shall have passed away under the reign of Him whom all own as Jehovah, king over the whole earth. Hence also earthly distinctions as priests and Levites, with the other features of an earthly worship, are again set up according to the will of God, instead of a common place of heavenly nearness in Christians as now."

--William Kelly, commentary on Ezekiel 44 [bold and underline mine]
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Thanks. He kind of said the same thing i was TRYING to say, but english isnt my native language and im a stupid man. He articulated it better than I ever could!

Well said!
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

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...so if all of the mortals who ENTER it are "saints/the righteous" (at the START), how much do they themselves need, with Christ Himself present there also? Not like they will have lack, is all I'm saying. :)


EDIT: just now seeing your latest post. :) Okay, good to know it.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

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#20
One thing to remember

Paul said circumcision is not required for salvation.

That does not negate the temple instructions. If the tempe is restored (it would be a teaching tool still) then the instructions would still be valid.
 
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