Not By Works
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As a youngster did we grow up in churches?
I did. And I am happy with this past and the memories I have there. It is all healed and resolved,
I do not have anything to run away from.
You would be surprised how our beliefs are molded by unresolved experiences and memories.
The hatred here of such groups suggests to me there is such a stream of resentment that needs
addressing if the truth in Christ can be truly revealed.
I did. And I am happy with this past and the memories I have there. It is all healed and resolved,
I do not have anything to run away from.
You would be surprised how our beliefs are molded by unresolved experiences and memories.
The hatred here of such groups suggests to me there is such a stream of resentment that needs
addressing if the truth in Christ can be truly revealed.
U
You see Mr. FHS we are called to guard, protect, preach the Gospel, the most important calling we have here on earth.
This feel bad for your sins and be good narrative is not the Gospel
Obviously you cannot see the obvious errors in his doctrine and Mr. FHS btw...... people take on the labels which is unfortunate for them.
This feel bad for your sins and be good narrative is not the Gospel
Obviously you cannot see the obvious errors in his doctrine and Mr. FHS btw...... people take on the labels which is unfortunate for them.
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I remember a conversation with a member about the yoke of Jesus.
The member literally added words and meaning when I said something, but not when they said the same
things. This is a kind of brainwashing and insanity, a literal delusional behaviour.
We do not know each other at all, except the words put here. And we can be completely wrong about our
conclusions. If we believe our conclusions above what people actually are we are literally deluded.
So we have to be very careful to listen, to draw conclusions and thereby walk further.
This media tends to attract those who jump too quickly to conclusions and not to waiting.
So which before the Lord would you rather be, deluded or speakers of truth?
The member literally added words and meaning when I said something, but not when they said the same
things. This is a kind of brainwashing and insanity, a literal delusional behaviour.
We do not know each other at all, except the words put here. And we can be completely wrong about our
conclusions. If we believe our conclusions above what people actually are we are literally deluded.
So we have to be very careful to listen, to draw conclusions and thereby walk further.
This media tends to attract those who jump too quickly to conclusions and not to waiting.
So which before the Lord would you rather be, deluded or speakers of truth?
no, I am not fearful.
I am pointing out to others who may be reading this that you go on and on about walking with Jesus, having a pure heart, but at the same time you refuse to acknowledge the definition of sin- missing the mark, falling short of a standard , knowing to do good and not doing so.
you musings about pure heart, walking like Jesus are invalid if you base them on your opinions about your self.
God's standards determine what sin is, not your emotions.
I am pointing out to others who may be reading this that you go on and on about walking with Jesus, having a pure heart, but at the same time you refuse to acknowledge the definition of sin- missing the mark, falling short of a standard , knowing to do good and not doing so.
you musings about pure heart, walking like Jesus are invalid if you base them on your opinions about your self.
God's standards determine what sin is, not your emotions.
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Righteous anger is good yes.
But also YELLING, that'll do!
Any time im put in a speaking position, you can get your earplugs ready cause its gonna get loud. I could be reading the street preaching strategy to you and your eardrums will burst!
We have a strategy of sending two to each area, knocking each door! SOMEONE has to deliver the Gospel, since all the big dead churches arent doing nothing with all teh money they got. (Im talking about the high-church ones, never seen ANY of them evangelizing)
But also YELLING, that'll do!
Any time im put in a speaking position, you can get your earplugs ready cause its gonna get loud. I could be reading the street preaching strategy to you and your eardrums will burst!
We have a strategy of sending two to each area, knocking each door! SOMEONE has to deliver the Gospel, since all the big dead churches arent doing nothing with all teh money they got. (Im talking about the high-church ones, never seen ANY of them evangelizing)
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The old law with the purification works of the law was not based on faith.
Galatians 3:12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, "The person who does these things will live by them."
That means it did not take faith to do the purification works of the law.
A person could do the purification works of the law but not have faith in God.
God not like that and promised a new covenant.
See, a person could do the purification works of the law and be called a child of God, and they could go in the temple to be near God's Spirit.
There were Jews who obeyed the law AND they had faith, but there were also Jews who obeyed the works of the law and did NOT have faith.
When Jesus came to earth to make a new covenant that would be based on faith, God cut off and hardened the Jews who did not have faith before Jesus came.
Jesus came for the Jews first who already belonged to God by faith. These are called the lost sheep of Israel because they already had faith in God but didn't have good shepherds to shepherd them. Jesus came to save them and be their Shepherd.
When Jesus started his earthy ministry, the Jews who belonged to God now had to go through Jesus to remain God's.
God gave them to Jesus.
All those other Jews that God had cut off when Jesus came, He bound all the cut off Jews to the same place as the Gentiles who were disobedient to the purification works of the law. The whole world was then bound to the same place, condemnation until they come to God through Jesus in faith.
Jesus said that when he is crucified, then all can come to him to be saved, even the cut off Jews and the Gentiles.
Galatians 3:12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, "The person who does these things will live by them."
That means it did not take faith to do the purification works of the law.
A person could do the purification works of the law but not have faith in God.
God not like that and promised a new covenant.
See, a person could do the purification works of the law and be called a child of God, and they could go in the temple to be near God's Spirit.
There were Jews who obeyed the law AND they had faith, but there were also Jews who obeyed the works of the law and did NOT have faith.
When Jesus came to earth to make a new covenant that would be based on faith, God cut off and hardened the Jews who did not have faith before Jesus came.
Jesus came for the Jews first who already belonged to God by faith. These are called the lost sheep of Israel because they already had faith in God but didn't have good shepherds to shepherd them. Jesus came to save them and be their Shepherd.
When Jesus started his earthy ministry, the Jews who belonged to God now had to go through Jesus to remain God's.
God gave them to Jesus.
All those other Jews that God had cut off when Jesus came, He bound all the cut off Jews to the same place as the Gentiles who were disobedient to the purification works of the law. The whole world was then bound to the same place, condemnation until they come to God through Jesus in faith.
Jesus said that when he is crucified, then all can come to him to be saved, even the cut off Jews and the Gentiles.
It is an interesting point you raise. Paul talks about His conscience declaring him innocent. And finally he says
My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.
1 Cor 4:4
So Amen, it is the Lord who judges us, but we need to listen to our consciences and walk in His ways.
My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.
1 Cor 4:4
So Amen, it is the Lord who judges us, but we need to listen to our consciences and walk in His ways.
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How the heck can we change our mind about sins, and turn from them, BEFORE we are born again!!
You have to come to Christ with the understanding that YOU CAN'T turn from your sins and that's why you MUST have Him!
Trying to make yourself clean, with a NEW heart, to be right before God is EXACTLY what the Pharisees tried to do.
Can't you see that?
You have to come to Christ with the understanding that YOU CAN'T turn from your sins and that's why you MUST have Him!
Trying to make yourself clean, with a NEW heart, to be right before God is EXACTLY what the Pharisees tried to do.
Can't you see that?
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I do enjoy pretty things, too! 
Thanks for your reply, it helped me understand what you were saying.
Interesting.... I really wasn't familiar with Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) until joining CC.
Do you feel OSAS is a corrupting doctrine because it seems like a "false sense" of security and you're concerned that people might fall into the trap of thinking they're saved but are not?
I know the doctrine of 3 different mainline churches (by mainline, I mean churches that are denominational). None of the 3 believe in OSAS...and I also had never encountered this belief system...so here is why I do not care for it:
1. It's not biblical. It absolutely is not present in the N.T. It came about because of the theology of Calvin: Perseverance of the saints --which is a totally different idea.
That turned into preservation of the saints ------ to eternal security -----to OSAS.
OSAS is the worst of all...the idea is that once someone has become saved...no matter what he does from therein and forward, even if they sin to their heart's content, they will not become lost ever again. I've heard posters say this and I heard Charles Stanley say this. This cannot be what Jesus taught, or Paul for that matter.
2. Yes...as you've stated, I believe those that believe in OSAS do have to danger of falling away due to a false sense of security...although I know that the majority will not because they're in love with their savior.
3. The simple reason that we should adhere to the truth and not water down Chrisitanity --- the faith for which Jesus died.
Sorry if people are not considering your Matthew 7:24-25 verses about two foundations. I'll consider them....
I looked at the whole story leading up to the two foundations. These are my thoughts:
No problem. Here on this thread we don't discuss scripture too much. We tend to post it back and forth and do a lot of insulting...it's sad. @mailmandan does address scripture....We don't agree on everything, but at least he does do bible study on this thread.ff
Matthew 7:21 King James Version (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
This is kind of scary because they are calling Yeshua/Jesus "Lord" yet, they do not get to enter the kingdom of heaven. So, it appears it is VERY IMPORTANT to understand what He means by "he that does the will of My Father in heaven."
What is the "Will of the Father" in regards to entering the kingdom of heaven?
I think the answer is found in John 3:16 and also, the conversation between Yeshua and Nicodemus because the Father's Will is always accomplished with His Word and His Spirit.
The Blood of Yeshua/Jesus saves us from our sins by washing them away completely;
The Body of Yeshua/Jesus is the human fulfillment of the Law which is His Righteousness that He gives us;
Then, we get the Promise of the Father - The Spirit of Truth - The Holy Spirit. Yeshua/Jesus baptizes us with it. The Holy Spirit indwells us, seals us and we become born again - of water and Spirit. The washing of the water of the Word and the Holy Spirit.
Some might say the Water Baptism and the Holy Spirit Baptism.
John 3:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
I agree with all you've said....And Jesus came to save the world...He came for the sick..not for the healthy...he ate with WOMEN! and sinners.....men did not even speak to women back then...Jesus spoke to a woman and she was even Samaritan. So, yes, He came to save.
I'd like to say this:
No need to be fearful...Jesus plainly said WHO would not enter into the Kingdom of Heave....the Lawless...those that did not follow the Law. What Law? Certainly not the 613 laws of the Torah...He was speaking of the Moral Law...the 10 Commandments. The lawless do not follow the law.
You bring up sealing....Sealing is not understood today as it was back then. I could post a whole page on this...but suffice it to say that as long as we are IN CHRIST, we are sealed...if we depart from Christ, the seal is meaningless. And here we get to OSAS...those that believe this bring up the seal as if we could never be unsealed ever again...God will do what He will do...It is HIS commandments we follow...WE do not make up the commandments.
The N.T. clearly teaches that we are to obey God. If we obey, We love God, and V V --- but the obedience must be there. Must be there....God does not make requests....His word is His command.
John 3:1-5 King James Version (KJV)
3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
I'm not sure why you posted this. Of course we must be born from above.
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Matthew 7:22-23 King James Version (KJV)
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
It is the Father's Will that both - His Word and His Spirit indwell us. We cannot do the Father's Will without both - Yeshua/Jesus AND the Holy Spirit.
Otherwise, we're just doing a bunch of 'good works' according to human reasoning that are not the Father's Will. These are "works of iniquity." These works just feed our ego/flesh and do nothing for the kingdom of heaven.
Agreed.
Except these are not the works of iniquity. Could you post some scripture?
There are three levels to sin:
Sin
Transgression
Iniquity
Iniquity is when sin takes over our lives...Do you mean works that are sin in our lives?
(I don't think this is what you mean)
When you refer to adhering to the conditions of eternal security, you define these conditions as being:
- Believe in Jesus and
- Obey His (Jesus) word.
I think the problem is that when you say "obey His word," it sounds as if you are saying that "works are required by us to complete Yeshua/Jesus saving us," which is not what scripture says.
Yeshua/Jesus (as all authority of the Word of God and with all the power of God which is the Holy Spirit, without measure) completed every work necessary for our salvation.
Now, the Father wants us to receive what has been done for us.
He wants us to be cleansed from sin with Yeshua/Jesus' Blood, imputed with Yeshua/Jesus' Righteousness by His Body and full of the Holy Spirit - being born again so, we can walk in His authority and power making us able to do the Father's Will and by so doing, enter the kingdom of heaven.
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Thanks for your reply, it helped me understand what you were saying. Interesting.... I really wasn't familiar with Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) until joining CC.
Do you feel OSAS is a corrupting doctrine because it seems like a "false sense" of security and you're concerned that people might fall into the trap of thinking they're saved but are not?
I know the doctrine of 3 different mainline churches (by mainline, I mean churches that are denominational). None of the 3 believe in OSAS...and I also had never encountered this belief system...so here is why I do not care for it:
1. It's not biblical. It absolutely is not present in the N.T. It came about because of the theology of Calvin: Perseverance of the saints --which is a totally different idea.
That turned into preservation of the saints ------ to eternal security -----to OSAS.
OSAS is the worst of all...the idea is that once someone has become saved...no matter what he does from therein and forward, even if they sin to their heart's content, they will not become lost ever again. I've heard posters say this and I heard Charles Stanley say this. This cannot be what Jesus taught, or Paul for that matter.
2. Yes...as you've stated, I believe those that believe in OSAS do have to danger of falling away due to a false sense of security...although I know that the majority will not because they're in love with their savior.
3. The simple reason that we should adhere to the truth and not water down Chrisitanity --- the faith for which Jesus died.
Sorry if people are not considering your Matthew 7:24-25 verses about two foundations. I'll consider them....
I looked at the whole story leading up to the two foundations. These are my thoughts:
No problem. Here on this thread we don't discuss scripture too much. We tend to post it back and forth and do a lot of insulting...it's sad. @mailmandan does address scripture....We don't agree on everything, but at least he does do bible study on this thread.ff
Matthew 7:21 King James Version (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
This is kind of scary because they are calling Yeshua/Jesus "Lord" yet, they do not get to enter the kingdom of heaven. So, it appears it is VERY IMPORTANT to understand what He means by "he that does the will of My Father in heaven."
What is the "Will of the Father" in regards to entering the kingdom of heaven?
I think the answer is found in John 3:16 and also, the conversation between Yeshua and Nicodemus because the Father's Will is always accomplished with His Word and His Spirit.
The Blood of Yeshua/Jesus saves us from our sins by washing them away completely;
The Body of Yeshua/Jesus is the human fulfillment of the Law which is His Righteousness that He gives us;
Then, we get the Promise of the Father - The Spirit of Truth - The Holy Spirit. Yeshua/Jesus baptizes us with it. The Holy Spirit indwells us, seals us and we become born again - of water and Spirit. The washing of the water of the Word and the Holy Spirit.
Some might say the Water Baptism and the Holy Spirit Baptism.
John 3:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
I agree with all you've said....And Jesus came to save the world...He came for the sick..not for the healthy...he ate with WOMEN! and sinners.....men did not even speak to women back then...Jesus spoke to a woman and she was even Samaritan. So, yes, He came to save.
I'd like to say this:
No need to be fearful...Jesus plainly said WHO would not enter into the Kingdom of Heave....the Lawless...those that did not follow the Law. What Law? Certainly not the 613 laws of the Torah...He was speaking of the Moral Law...the 10 Commandments. The lawless do not follow the law.
You bring up sealing....Sealing is not understood today as it was back then. I could post a whole page on this...but suffice it to say that as long as we are IN CHRIST, we are sealed...if we depart from Christ, the seal is meaningless. And here we get to OSAS...those that believe this bring up the seal as if we could never be unsealed ever again...God will do what He will do...It is HIS commandments we follow...WE do not make up the commandments.
The N.T. clearly teaches that we are to obey God. If we obey, We love God, and V V --- but the obedience must be there. Must be there....God does not make requests....His word is His command.
John 3:1-5 King James Version (KJV)
3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
I'm not sure why you posted this. Of course we must be born from above.
-----------------------------------
Matthew 7:22-23 King James Version (KJV)
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
It is the Father's Will that both - His Word and His Spirit indwell us. We cannot do the Father's Will without both - Yeshua/Jesus AND the Holy Spirit.
Otherwise, we're just doing a bunch of 'good works' according to human reasoning that are not the Father's Will. These are "works of iniquity." These works just feed our ego/flesh and do nothing for the kingdom of heaven.
Agreed.
Except these are not the works of iniquity. Could you post some scripture?
There are three levels to sin:
Sin
Transgression
Iniquity
Iniquity is when sin takes over our lives...Do you mean works that are sin in our lives?
(I don't think this is what you mean)
When you refer to adhering to the conditions of eternal security, you define these conditions as being:
- Believe in Jesus and
- Obey His (Jesus) word.
I think the problem is that when you say "obey His word," it sounds as if you are saying that "works are required by us to complete Yeshua/Jesus saving us," which is not what scripture says.
Yeshua/Jesus (as all authority of the Word of God and with all the power of God which is the Holy Spirit, without measure) completed every work necessary for our salvation.
Now, the Father wants us to receive what has been done for us.
He wants us to be cleansed from sin with Yeshua/Jesus' Blood, imputed with Yeshua/Jesus' Righteousness by His Body and full of the Holy Spirit - being born again so, we can walk in His authority and power making us able to do the Father's Will and by so doing, enter the kingdom of heaven.
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