Now you've done it! Another movement I have to look up lol 
. Never heard of Christian Science.
. Never heard of Christian Science.
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Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
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Another Satanic cult started by a lost man....
Wow that is incredible. 22nd trip! A real jet setter
Aaah the Aussies and their footy do you watch the Super Rugby at all? The world cup is also on this year. Going to be difficult for anybody to beat the All Blacks... Can't believe I just admitted that in public
Aaah the Aussies and their footy
do you watch the Super Rugby at all? The world cup is also on this year. Going to be difficult for anybody to beat the All Blacks... Can't believe I just admitted that in public
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There is always a response in christian theology with grace.
Faith keeps us safe in Christ, not behaviour. Our behaviour reinforces our faith or kills it.
Without this grace no one could ever walk the way, because acceptance or salvation would
only be if we become perfect, which is an aspiration which only God knows.
The thief on the cross is a good example of this. Purified and made Holy before God through
his conviction of sin, repentance, accepting forgiveness and faith in Jesus, along with his
confession of faith.
Though we can as far as we tell walk in the way of Jesus, it does not make us guiltless.
Paul said it like this
My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.
1 Cor 4:4
Faith keeps us safe in Christ, not behaviour. Our behaviour reinforces our faith or kills it.
Without this grace no one could ever walk the way, because acceptance or salvation would
only be if we become perfect, which is an aspiration which only God knows.
The thief on the cross is a good example of this. Purified and made Holy before God through
his conviction of sin, repentance, accepting forgiveness and faith in Jesus, along with his
confession of faith.
Though we can as far as we tell walk in the way of Jesus, it does not make us guiltless.
Paul said it like this
My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.
1 Cor 4:4
It is interesting to me, though we may not communicate well, and obviously your approach
is not conventional, some have declared you "utterly lost".
If someone rejects Jesus that would make sense, or stays in wilful sin and refuses to repent.
Communicates their faith in an unconventional way? Not guilty, and could well be a brother in Christ.
This behaviour by others demonstrates to me their insecurity. Does it matter to them who
is lost before God and who is not, which they cannot determine anyway?
Press certain buttons, and out come the condemnations. As long as I know the Lord, the rest is up
to others, Amen.
So obeying Jesus. Is there a downside? There is the problem of miss-interpretation.
People have chopped their hands off, thinking their guilt would be sorted out by this and they would
enter heaven. They may have been also slightly nuts. Others invent OCD tight rules of self condemnation
where anything good they can think of, if they do not do, is sinful. Or they are obligated to follow anybody
elses request of their time over their own needs.
So yes there can be problems understanding what obeying Jesus is.
But at the level you are talking, people are very sensitive about starting to look at the issue,
Guilt and self condemnation is triggered by such considerations
is not conventional, some have declared you "utterly lost".
If someone rejects Jesus that would make sense, or stays in wilful sin and refuses to repent.
Communicates their faith in an unconventional way? Not guilty, and could well be a brother in Christ.
This behaviour by others demonstrates to me their insecurity. Does it matter to them who
is lost before God and who is not, which they cannot determine anyway?
Press certain buttons, and out come the condemnations. As long as I know the Lord, the rest is up
to others, Amen.
So obeying Jesus. Is there a downside? There is the problem of miss-interpretation.
People have chopped their hands off, thinking their guilt would be sorted out by this and they would
enter heaven. They may have been also slightly nuts. Others invent OCD tight rules of self condemnation
where anything good they can think of, if they do not do, is sinful. Or they are obligated to follow anybody
elses request of their time over their own needs.
So yes there can be problems understanding what obeying Jesus is.
But at the level you are talking, people are very sensitive about starting to look at the issue,
Guilt and self condemnation is triggered by such considerations
I watched a series about the massively rich who wander the world, from house to house.
Often their staff are the closest to them, having occasional interaction but almost no friends,
because they move so much, no one can get close, and they are so scared of exploitation.
Jesus had great interaction and friendships. He lived in community for 3 years and implied
we are a real family. In Christ we have brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, linked in love
and sharing at a deep emotional and spiritual level. This is the body of Christ, the Kingdom
that is eternal and conquers the worlds ways through Christ.
Often their staff are the closest to them, having occasional interaction but almost no friends,
because they move so much, no one can get close, and they are so scared of exploitation.
Jesus had great interaction and friendships. He lived in community for 3 years and implied
we are a real family. In Christ we have brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, linked in love
and sharing at a deep emotional and spiritual level. This is the body of Christ, the Kingdom
that is eternal and conquers the worlds ways through Christ.
You skipped the part that says WE don't will our way to be a Child of God. It is by GOD'S Will that we become His Child. Very inconvenient for those that think they can work their way to the Father. Here is Jesus saying the same thing again:
John 6:44 New King James Version (NKJV)
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me DRAWS him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
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MMD, funnily for me, we probably agree theologically though express things differently.
I wonder if your approach bears fruit, with those who truly believe they are good and stand as
good before the Lord.
My experience is talking about faith and relationship, the heart and resolving impurity and sin
within is the best way to approach things.
On these forums, the extreme grace groups often are like the self righteous groups, refuse to
look at the heart. But I am interested in your approach because I know it takes so much effort
I admire your commitment. God bless you.
I wonder if your approach bears fruit, with those who truly believe they are good and stand as
good before the Lord.
My experience is talking about faith and relationship, the heart and resolving impurity and sin
within is the best way to approach things.
On these forums, the extreme grace groups often are like the self righteous groups, refuse to
look at the heart. But I am interested in your approach because I know it takes so much effort
I admire your commitment. God bless you.
N
lol look at the last few pages with the heretic trolls....(he has many accounts ... devotes a lot of his effort towards cowardly hiding and posting emotes from private accounts....)
notice how no work salvationist gets the negative emotes😂
it is most likely one of the posters here who hates eternal security or the fact God gets the glory for it
(now that it has been mentioned i wouldnt be surprised if he/she will change their approach so check the time the angry face was recieved if it is directed at a works salvationist and see if it is posted after i posted this)
notice how no work salvationist gets the negative emotes😂
it is most likely one of the posters here who hates eternal security or the fact God gets the glory for it
(now that it has been mentioned i wouldnt be surprised if he/she will change their approach so check the time the angry face was recieved if it is directed at a works salvationist and see if it is posted after i posted this)
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Yes, Jesus does tell us what to do to get saved:
John 3:14 - And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him will have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day ... 47 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
John 11:25 - Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
These many people in Matthew 7:21-23 had the wrong motive as do all works-salvationists.
John 3:14 - And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him will have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day ... 47 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
John 11:25 - Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
These many people in Matthew 7:21-23 had the wrong motive as do all works-salvationists.
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no. we should not be angry witnesses . ( though I saw no anger in penned's post, he was just debunking a false teacher, as I am doing here with you ).
neither should you attempt to use your musings about your emotional experiences and your opinions as ways to witness.
this is a Bible discussion forum , not a psychiatrist's office.
feelings and emotions do NOT determine reality. facts do.
and, until you accept the proper definition of sin, then your opinions of whether you sin or not is not valid, since you are using your private opinion, not the actual definition.
neither should you attempt to use your musings about your emotional experiences and your opinions as ways to witness.
this is a Bible discussion forum , not a psychiatrist's office.
feelings and emotions do NOT determine reality. facts do.
and, until you accept the proper definition of sin, then your opinions of whether you sin or not is not valid, since you are using your private opinion, not the actual definition.
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You could not make it any more obvious that you teach salvation by works.
The gospel is not about obtaining and maintaining salvation by works. That is a "different" gospel. (Galatians 1:6-9)
The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). To “believe” the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.
The gospel is a message of grace to be received through faith. The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation or to maintain salvation.
1 Corinthians 1:21 - For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who BELIEVE.
The gospel is not about obtaining and maintaining salvation by works. That is a "different" gospel. (Galatians 1:6-9)
The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). To “believe” the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.
The gospel is a message of grace to be received through faith. The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation or to maintain salvation.
1 Corinthians 1:21 - For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who BELIEVE.
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wrong motive - meaning obeying Jesus to try and earn ones way to heaven without faith in the cross.
In this way of thinking, here is an individual, labelled a works-salvationist.
They do everything to prove they are good, holy before God so will not be judged not resting on
the cross and the forgiveness of their sins that comes from this.
Implicit in this "wrong motive" is actually failure to obey Jesus, because if we could be perfect without
the Lord, sin would not be present and so no judgement.
So the criticism is not people are obeying Christ, it is they are trying to obey Christ for the wrong objective.
Funnily people have come to faith, by trying to obey Christ without faith, and coming to realise Jesus
was speaking the truth and through faith in Him, a changed heart, it is actually possible.
So I would never condemn anyone who is trying to obey Christ, Amen to any righteous deeds whoever
does them for whatever reason.
I am worried that people who think themselves following Christ want to discourage people from trying
to do such a thing.
In this way of thinking, here is an individual, labelled a works-salvationist.
They do everything to prove they are good, holy before God so will not be judged not resting on
the cross and the forgiveness of their sins that comes from this.
Implicit in this "wrong motive" is actually failure to obey Jesus, because if we could be perfect without
the Lord, sin would not be present and so no judgement.
So the criticism is not people are obeying Christ, it is they are trying to obey Christ for the wrong objective.
Funnily people have come to faith, by trying to obey Christ without faith, and coming to realise Jesus
was speaking the truth and through faith in Him, a changed heart, it is actually possible.
So I would never condemn anyone who is trying to obey Christ, Amen to any righteous deeds whoever
does them for whatever reason.
I am worried that people who think themselves following Christ want to discourage people from trying
to do such a thing.
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Hi gb9,
Do you love Jesus? Can you love without emotion? Can we breath without emotion?
Can we face any fact without emotion? No.
Emotions are who we are, how we are born. Facts and intellect attempt to make sense of
our emotions, but they drive everything in us.
You are even speaking with emotion as you write.
You call this debunking, while failing to do the thing you claim to want to do, because
to you emotions are just the extreme out of control expressions of emotion which you
try and control as you repress everything in sight. God bless you, but what you leave out
says more about you, than what you say.
Do you love Jesus? Can you love without emotion? Can we breath without emotion?
Can we face any fact without emotion? No.
Emotions are who we are, how we are born. Facts and intellect attempt to make sense of
our emotions, but they drive everything in us.
You are even speaking with emotion as you write.
You call this debunking, while failing to do the thing you claim to want to do, because
to you emotions are just the extreme out of control expressions of emotion which you
try and control as you repress everything in sight. God bless you, but what you leave out
says more about you, than what you say.
That is certainly a wrong motive. There are many people who have faith in the fact that the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus "happened." The problem is they are not trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation and are instead trusting in works as the means of their salvation anywhere from "in part" to "for the most part."
Believers obey Jesus BECAUSE they are saved and not in order to remain saved and their motivation is love, not pride. Obedience is not forced or legalistic for those who are born of God.
Believers obey Jesus BECAUSE they are saved and not in order to remain saved and their motivation is love, not pride. Obedience is not forced or legalistic for those who are born of God.
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