Sirach: Its Relevance to Jesus' Teaching and Christian Spirituality

[MadHermit]

Among Jesus' many "hats" (Son of God, Messiah, prophet. healer) is His role as Wisdom teacher. As such, His earlier education immersed Him in Jewish Wisdom writings like Sirach (written c. 200 BC), a Jewish Wisdom book similar to Proverbs. I don't want to defend its inclusion in the Catholic OT, but instead I want to draw attention to its influence on some of Jesus' teachings and to its illumination of some assumptions shared by Jesus and the early church on the life of faith.

(1) Let me begin with Jesus' command, "Love your neighbor as yourself: " this is actually bad advice for a masochist! But the command assumes a prior duty to love yourself, a duty eloquently expressed in Sirach:

"My child, honor yourself with humility and give yourself the self-esteem you deserve. Who will acquit those who condemn themselves? And who will honor those who dishonor themselves (Sirach 10:28-29)?"
"If one is mean to himself, to whom will he be generous?...No one is worse than one who is grudging to himself...My child, treat yourself well accord to your means (Sirach 14:5-6, 11)."

Of course, Sirach recognizes the danger of crossing the thin line from healthy self-esteem and self-respect to evil self-centeredness.
Bur Jesus said, "I have come that they might have life, and have it more abundantly (John 10:10)." Many devout Christians live out their lives without really enjoying it with a balanced life of various forms of entertainment, vacation escapes, hobbies, and a rich social life. I am now mourning the loss of both my godly parents, but what I'm especially mourning is this: they seemed to live most of their life in survival mode rather in a grateful and joyful embrace of all of life's wonderful opportunities.

 

[Deuteronomy]

Hi @MadHermit, I'm very sorry to hear about the loss of your parents! I lost both of my parents about 5 years ago or so, and there is a sadness that persists even now, one that I do not expect will ever go away (though in the case of my mother, there is also great joy, because I am certain of the wondrous eternity that is now hers .. as you are in the case of your parents .. my dad I'm, sadly, not so sure about ).

As for the rest of your post, you mentioned Jesus' upbringing. How do we 'know' that He was, "immersed in Jewish Wisdom writings", in His early years, or that Sirach, or any other writings for that matter, influenced what He taught us in the NT?

The command to "love your neighbor as yourself", for instance, was hardly a new teaching in 175 BC when Sirach was written.

Leviticus 19​

17 ‘You shall not hate your fellow countryman in your heart; you may surely reprove your neighbor, but shall not incur sin because of him.​

18 ‘You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD.​

And if Jesus needed Sirach to come to a proper understanding of what it means to "love yourself", what did the people of Moses' day do to understand it more than a millennium before Sirach was written?

Finally, do you believe that Jesus was referring to involvement in various forms of secular entertainment/relaxation when He spoke of the "abundant" life that His coming here was meant to give to those of us who are His?

Thanks!

~Deut

 

[MadHermit]

Deut: "How do we 'know' that He was, "immersed in Jewish Wisdom writings", in His early years, or that Sirach, or any other writings for that matter, influenced what He taught us in the NT?"

(1) Here are just 3 examples of how Jesus integrates some of the best of contemporary rabbinic teaching into His repertoire:
(a) Jesus' application of the Lord's Prayer draws on the tradition preserved in Sirach 28:2:
"Forgive your neighbor the wrong he has done, and then your sins will be pardoned when your pray (Sirach 28:2)."
//s "If you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you (Matthew 6:14)."
(b) The Lord's Prayer is an adaptation of the ancient Jewish liturgy, especially the first stanza of the rabbinic Kaddish prayer.
(c) In telling parables, Jesus is simply employing a didactic method in use by contemporary rabbis and many of His parables are upgraded adaptations of contemporary parabolic rabbinic stories.

(2) Being fully human, Jesus had to attend school and learn just like other Jewish children. Even as a 12-year-old, He was intellectually curious and took opportunities to learn from leading rabbis of His day: e. g.
(a) "After 3 days they found Him in the Temple, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions (Luke 2:46)."
Jesus made the mistake of leaving His family entourage on their way back to Galilee from Jerusalem without being thoughtful enough to notify His parents about where He was going. This oversight triggered a highly anxious 3-day search, which prompted Mary to rightly scold her son for being inconsiderate (2:46, 48).
(b) Luke notes that, at least after that episode, Jesus was obedient to His parents, adding: "He grew in wisdom...and favor with God (2:52)." Luke's remark implies a prior time when Jesus was less wise and, yes, less in favor with God! Keep in mind that it is only human for a child to need to learn by trial-and-error, but the need for a learning curve does not imply status as a sinner.

(3) Among His other roles (Messiah, healer, etc.), Jesus was a Jewish Wisdom teacher who used the genre of wisdom sayings to supplement His teaching and even viewed Himself as the mouthpiece of personified Wisdom (Luke 11:49). That in itself creates the expectation that He would immerse Himself in Jewish Wisdom books and traditions.

Deut: "Finally, do you believe that Jesus was referring to involvement in various forms of secular entertainment/relaxation when He spoke of the "abundant" life that His coming here was meant to give to those of us who are His?"

Well, to minister to the socially marginalized, Jesus does embrace the role of a "party animal" to some extent:
(1) His detractors took advantage of this to slander His reputation:
"The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, "Look, a glutton and a drunk, a friend of tax collectors and sinners (Luke 7:34)."
The wedding steward: "Everyone serves the good wine first, and then the inferior wine after the guests have become drunk But you have kept the good wine until now (John 2:10)."

(2) The Gospels portray Jesus as often taking prayer solitary prayer retreats in the countre and as wanting to take breaks and get away from the crowds and recharge His batteries. Beyond, that, we wouldn't expect the Gospels to document the trivial details of how Jesus and His disciples spent their leisure time. Remember, His ministry lasted at least 3 1/2 years and our Gospels hardly make a dent in accounting for how He used all that time.





Ma

 

[JaumeJ]

To the intellectual………...Jesus is God. All of the Word is He. He does not need to "integrate" any teachings of man, especially rabbinical teachings which are rapidly proving to be apostetic.

 

[lightbearer]

To the intellectual………...Jesus is God. All of the Word is He. He does not need to "integrate" any teachings of man, especially rabbinical teachings which are rapidly proving to be apostetic.

He needed to learn apparently.
Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

 

[lightbearer]

(1) Let me begin with Jesus' command, "Love your neighbor as yourself: " this is actually bad advice for a masochist! But the command assumes a prior duty to love yourself, a duty eloquently expressed in Sirach:

Since the LXX was in circulation in HIS time and it is quoted numerous times in the NT. It is safe to say that Christ and HIS Apostles did not have any reservations in regards to quoting it if not using it in there Devotional life.

However please share how Jesus was a masochist. A person who derives sexual gratification from HIS own pain or humiliation.

 

[JaumeJ]

He needed to learn apparently.
Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

This is arguing for arument's sake. Of course Jesus learned, He became flesh. His Body was not glorified until after He wqs raised…… yet He wqs full of the Holy Spsirit with His baaptisme, and had all knowledge ........This is not fullly understood by the flesh but faith understands all. ( all given to be understood that is.)

 

[lightbearer]

This is arguing for arument's sake. )

No JaumeJ . You made a comment that needed clarified IMO. Have a nice day in Christ my brother

 

[JaumeJ]

Always go by the Spirit in understanding……...our intellect is only of some value, not a lot though.

 

[lightbearer]

Always go by the Spirit in understanding……...our intellect is only of some value, not a lot though.

I agree. But then if our intellect is of the mind of Christ....

 

[MadHermit]

Jaumel: "To the intellectual………...Jesus is God. All of the Word is He. He does not need to "integrate" any teachings of man, especially rabbinical teachings which are rapidly proving to be apostetic."




From the Mouth

 

[MadHermit]

Lightbearer: "However please share how Jesus was a masochist. "

I never said that: what I said was this: "Love your neighbor as yourself" is bad advice for a masochist." In other, words, if I have low self-esteem and treat myself with little self-respect, and then love my neighbor as myself, I will also treat my neighbor shabbily.
That's why the background influence is so important: it stresses the need to have a healthy positive self-image and to treat your slef with respect because doing so will help you live righteously and treat others in the positive way you treat yourself.

The shaping of Jesus' education by the best of contemporary Jewish thought is universally accepted by modern Bible scholars, conservative and liberal. Anti-academic types who don't know Greek or Hebrew and haven't studied the Jewish background of Jesus' teaching come close to committing the ancient heresy of Docetism, a heresy that refuses to accept the full humanity of Jesus and all that His human limitations entailed.

 

[MadHermit]

Sirach rather prophetically celebrates the healing potential of plants--a striking claim, given the limited knowledge of the healing properties of plants in 200 AD:

"Honor physicians for their services...for their gift of healing comes from the Most High....The Lord created medicines out of teh earth, and the sensible will not despise them...The pharmacist makes a mixture from them (38:1-2, 4, 8)."

A preacher friend of my parents did great harm by discouraging his wife from seeing a doctor for cancer treatment, so that she died prematurely. Many Christians have the false impression that faith healing was considered the only good option for sick believers in the early church. But Sirach stresses the importance of a healthy balance between reliance on intercessory prayer for healing and consultation with a physician:

"My child, when you are ill, do not delay, but pray to the Lord, and He will heal you...Then give the physician his place, for the Lord created him;...you need him too (38:9, 12)."

 

[MadHermit]

At the time of Jesus, the superstition was rampant that dreams often contain a supernatural sign. So it is refreshing to see that Sirach in the Catholic OT displays a more skeptical understanding similar to modern psychology:
"What is seen in dreams is but a reflection, the likeness of a face looking a itself...Unless they are sent by intervention from the Most High, pay no attention to them (sirach 34:3, 6)."

 

[Nehemiah6]

I want to draw attention to its influence on some of Jesus' teachings...

You are incorrectly assuming that Jesus needed to be influenced by the writings of others. Quite the opposite. Jesus had more spiritual wisdom at the age of twelve than all the learned rabbis at the time. Even the esteemed rabbi Nicodemus could not understand what He meant by he New Birth.

 

[JaumeJ]

Among Jesus' many "hats" (Son of God, Messiah, prophet. healer) is His role as Wisdom teacher. As such, His earlier education immersed Him in Jewish Wisdom writings like Sirach (written c. 200 BC), a Jewish Wisdom book similar to Proverbs. I don't want to defend its inclusion in the Catholic OT, but instead I want to draw attention to its influence on some of Jesus' teachings and to its illumination of some assumptions shared by Jesus and the early church on the life of faith.

(1) Let me begin with Jesus' command, "Love your neighbor as yourself: " this is actually bad advice for a masochist! But the command assumes a prior duty to love yourself, a duty eloquently expressed in Sirach:

"My child, honor yourself with humility and give yourself the self-esteem you deserve. Who will acquit those who condemn themselves? And who will honor those who dishonor themselves (Sirach 10:28-29)?"
"If one is mean to himself, to whom will he be generous?...No one is worse than one who is grudging to himself...My child, treat yourself well accord to your means (Sirach 14:5-6, 11)."

Of course, Sirach recognizes the danger of crossing the thin line from healthy self-esteem and self-respect to evil self-centeredness.
Bur Jesus said, "I have come that they might have life, and have it more abundantly (John 10:10)." Many devout Christians live out their lives without really enjoying it with a balanced life of various forms of entertainment, vacation escapes, hobbies, and a rich social life. I am now mourning the loss of both my godly parents, but what I'm especially mourning is this: they seemed to live most of their life in survival mode rather in a grateful and joyful embrace of all of life's wonderful opportunities.

Please meditagt on this. Do not scoff at dreams or v isions believers may experience. They are for our edification and growthin Yeshua. If you cannot see any use in either at the time presented either discuss it or dismiss it, but never discount thme simply because you cannot find the sense in them.

I say this from my own experience, having had one very important (for me) vision as a young child, and having had dreams leading to and through Salvation in Jesus, Yeshua.

 

[MadHermit]

You are incorrectly assuming that Jesus needed to be influenced by the writings of others. Quite the opposite. Jesus had more spiritual wisdom at the age of twelve than all the learned rabbis at the time. Even the esteemed rabbi Nicodemus could not understand what He meant by he New Birth.

I just demonstrated how His full humanity required just such influence. Please actually read the details of what I'm saying.

 

[JaumeJ]

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He did come down to be amon us. He is Jesus, Yeshua. Read all about it in th efirst chapter of John...

 

[posthuman]

​

The Jews therefore marveled, saying, ​

“How is it that this man has learning, when He has never studied?” ​

So Jesus answered them, ​

“My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me. If anyone’s will is to do God’s will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on My own authority." ​

(John 7:15-17)​

 

[posthuman]

The shaping of Jesus' education by the best of contemporary Jewish thought is universally accepted by modern Bible scholars, conservative and liberal.

The Jews therefore marveled, saying, ​

“How is it that this man has learning, when He has never studied?” ​

(John 7:15) ​

​

​

nature or nurture?