Not By Works

[GodsGrace101]

Notice that James heard of this faith alone doctrine, then he goes into deep explanation how it is wrong.

The purification works are the works of the law, but from the scriptures we see that people misunderstood Paul and thought it meant to have faith only and not obedience; so James explains it from the point of their misunderstanding.

Peter must have heard of the false beliefs too of faith alone. He says people misunderstand Paul, and then he warns us to obey.

See 2 Peter 3:16, 17, and all of 2 Peter 3.

Sure.
Many heresies were entering the new church while the Apostles were still alive.
John was concerned with gnosticism.
Paul was trying to teach the Gentiles that they did not have to follow the Mosaic Law and many misunderstood, as you 've stated.

But how can we misunderstand today when Jesus clearly said in
Mathew 5:17 that He did NOT come to abolish the law but to make it more complete.....
To bring it to the heart level.

I find that it's much easier for some to believe in an easy gospel instead of the one Jesus preached.
Jesus and the other writers left us with many commands...

Do those against works and obedience ever wonder why?

 

[GodsGrace101]

Amen.


Right! The Hebrew and Aramaic was translated to English for us as was the Greek.
We don't have to learn another language to get saved and know Him.

Of course.
Greek is used by some when they have no good explanation for a verse...
so they "go to the Greek". As if we were scholars here debating what one word means...
It's silly.

There's enough in the N.T. to bring us to salvation and keep us there.
And that's all we need....

Verses are very easy to understand...no Greek necessary.

 

[YourTruthGod]

I agree.
Works do not save. Only faith saves.
So we do good works because we ARE saved.

Would you agree that if there are no good works (however you understand that to be) that there is probably no saving faith?

Romans 1:5
Romans 8:5

I am sorry to hear that you don't believe faith must be with right action to be saved by Jesus.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

We do not sin

Here is a problem in language. We walk the way of Jesus, yet we may stumble, fall into temptation,
have issues we need to work through, but as in all walks, we can get up and continue.

To not sin, is to not continue in sin and work on the issues one has, no matter how long that might be.
These issues are not simple or over in one day. Some are instantly healed while others struggle for
a life time.

I believe the tension is not so much is our defeats or successes but our direction.
If we are open and changing anything is possible. If we are closed and defensive we have no future.
Our goal is perfection, and our struggle is we are building an eternal structure in our lives through
Gods empowerment and strength. What defines us is our future not our past, our choices in Him,
not our failures without Him.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I am sorry to hear that you don't believe faith must be with right action to be saved by Jesus.

I don't know what you mean by this.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I agree.
Works do not save. Only faith saves.
So we do good works because we ARE saved.
Would you agree that if there are no good works (however you understand that to be) that there is probably no saving faith?
Romans 1:5
Romans 8:5

Here's what I believe about that:

--Paul stated in Romans 7:1-4 that we are "joined to Another, even to Him who is raised from the dead, IN ORDER THAT we should bring forth fruit unto God. (for "apart from Him" we can do NOTHING)

--In Philippians 1:11 (as part of his prayer for fellow-believers [when they come to the end of their lives, and are in His Presence]) Paul said, "...having been filled with the fruit of righteousness which is BY MEANS OF JESUS CHRIST, to the glory and praise of God."

--the writer of Hebrews said, in 13:20-21 [blb] - "20 Now may the God of peace, having brought out from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep, our Lord Jesus, by the blood of the eternal covenant, 21 equip you in everything good, in order to do His will, working in us that which is well pleasing before Him, through [/BY MEANS OF] JESUS CHRIST, to whom be the glory to the ages of the ages. Amen.

--"the fruit of the Spirit" is not something we muster up from ourselves (it is "HIS FRUIT" / "OF THE SPIRIT")... and sometimes believers can quench and grieve the Spirit, otherwise the exhortation to not do that would be... needless, right?

--then there is also the concept of "GROWTH" (He leads us through that too)

 

[UnderGrace]

I agree. I also speak two languages and have bibles in both!

They say the same thing, thats why I never bothered and never will bother to study "the greek".
First because there is more than one greek text, SECOND because just take a look at the scholars, they know the greek, and STILL DISAGREE!

I can find you a greek scholar who argues for and against baptismal regeneration, BOTH using "the greek" to prove their point. Its a useless skill for a regular Christian, imo!

If they disagree it is not because of the Greek.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

[EDIT to my last post (I'm slow )] … so even unbelievers or unsaved persons can do "good works" (many do: Matthew 7:22, for example), it's just "who or what is the SOURCE of them?" because, if not vitally-connected to the Right Source, it matters not how many one may "do"...

 

[UnderGrace]

Fran disagreed with this post.....and what I stated was true.....dishonest people continually prove their dishonesty it seems ....

That is not good it received and x

But she has stated somewhere on here that she goes to the Church of the Nazarene.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Why discuss scripture?
Better to discuss me....I must be so interesting and so necessary to the continuation of this thread.

What is going on?

 

[YourTruthGod]

I don't know what you mean by this.

You said faith alone saves, didn't you?

I agree.
Works do not save. Only faith saves.
So we do good works because we ARE saved.

 

[Argueless]

...He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work. Ephesians 4:10-16

 

[GodsGrace101]

Fran disagreed with this post.....and what I stated was true.....dishonest people continually prove their dishonesty it seems ....

You forgot to tag me in.
So you're speaking about me behind my back.
You're breaking one of the commandments...
Do not bear false witness against your neighbor.

So, now should I go on forever and keep bringing this up?
Which is what YOU are doing about that banning thing.
IT'S BORING. And you do this because you don't want to speak about scripture.
It's obvious to all. Maybe not your click.

And why do those red x's bother you so much???
They don't bother me when I get one and I've gotten plenty on here from your click.
Must be something psychological.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Jesus was born, lived and died UNDER THE LAW which ratified the NEW COVENANT OF GRACE....mayhe you missed that boat....
Why won't you tell us what church you go to? Are you embarrassed?

This is a dispensational view of salvation, where sin and morality have no impact on the
fellowship or communion with the Lord.

It literally bankcrupts the relationship and makes it valueless.
You cannot have sinful believers communing with a Holy God.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

This is a dispensational view of salvation, where sin and morality have no impact on the
fellowship or communion with the Lord.

The dispensational view is not that there is "no impact on" those things.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

...and, by the way, it also has an impact on our horizontal relationships.

 

[dcontroversal]

I agree. I also speak two languages and have bibles in both!

They say the same thing, thats why I never bothered and never will bother to study "the greek".
First because there is more than one greek text, SECOND because just take a look at the scholars, they know the greek, and STILL DISAGREE!

I can find you a greek scholar who argues for and against baptismal regeneration, BOTH using "the greek" to prove their point. Its a useless skill for a regular Christian, imo!

Tragic view and to be honest...not honest with the facts......there are nuances and tenses in Greek that do not translate over into English....I really thought you were honest with the truth.......

 

[dcontroversal]

You forgot to tag me in.
So you're speaking about me behind my back.
You're breaking one of the commandments...
Do not bear false witness against your neighbor.

So, now should I go on forever and keep bringing this up?
Which is what YOU are doing about that banning thing.
IT'S BORING. And you do this because you don't want to speak about scripture.
It's obvious to all. Maybe not your click.

And why do those red x's bother you so much???
They don't bother me when I get one and I've gotten plenty on here from your click.
Must be something psychological.

your a joke...and your false religion is a joke and your twist of scripure is a joke.....I spoke openly and stated a simple fact....your dishonesty and deceit knows no bounds.....speaks volumes to your bad character..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Genesis shows that he went. You cannot do something without calling it obeying.
Even Paul knows it.
Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.

You can't see it?

He was not saved because he went, He was saved because he believed
Gen 14. Abraham BELIEVED and it was acredited to him as righteousness.

Faith works. Faith does not go against the thing it is trusting, It trust him so it does what it says.

Apart from salvation though. No works matter.

 

[VCO]

Here's what I believe about that:

--Paul stated in Romans 7:1-4 that we are "joined to Another, even to Him who is raised from the dead, IN ORDER THAT we should bring forth fruit unto God. (for "apart from Him" we can do NOTHING)

--In Philippians 1:11 (as part of his prayer for fellow-believers [when they come to the end of their lives, and are in His Presence]) Paul said, "...having been filled with the fruit of righteousness which is BY MEANS OF JESUS CHRIST, to the glory and praise of God."

--the writer of Hebrews said, in 13:20-21 [blb] - "20 Now may the God of peace, having brought out from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep, our Lord Jesus, by the blood of the eternal covenant, 21 equip you in everything good, in order to do His will, working in us that which is well pleasing before Him, through [/BY MEANS OF] JESUS CHRIST, to whom be the glory to the ages of the ages. Amen.

--"the fruit of the Spirit" is not something we muster up from ourselves (it is "HIS FRUIT" / "OF THE SPIRIT")... and sometimes believers can quench and grieve the Spirit, otherwise the exhortation to not do that would be... needless, right?

--then there is also the concept of "GROWTH" (He leads us through that too)

You said it, we are to BRING FORTH FRUIT. Last time I checked, NO NEW BORN FRUIT TREE BRINGS FORTH FRUIT WHEN IT IS A SPROUT.

Sprouting is EQUAL TO SALVATION.

After much LOVE and CARING (FEEDING ON THE WORD), then it is ready to FORTH FRUIT.


SALVATION happens after you believe the GOSPEL MESSAGE.

That produces LOVE IN US that actually is spawned from GOD's LOVE that was POURED into our HEARTS (human spirit) by the HOLY SPIRIT, Rom. 5:5, and as we start to MATURE from FEEDING on the WORD OF GOD, it will produce OBEDIENCE as a result of LOVING GOD.

NEVER HAS IT BEEN A PRODUCT OF SALVATION, which is a FREE GIFT FROM GOD.

ONLY TRUE CHRISTIANS WILL BE ABLE TO AGAPE LOVE GOD LIKE THAT.

So why is that TRUTH so hard for some people to understand.

Could it be that they want their works to count SO BAD, that they are willing to ROB GOD of the GLORY THAT BELONGS TO HIM.