Rapture

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Jul 23, 2018
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They are not the entirety of the firstfruits. Plus, they are Christians who are of the Israelite lineages.
They are firstfruit Jews.
The Jewish remnant is taken out of the Jewish group..
A Jewish harvest.

Harvest is 4 parts.
Firstfruits
Main
Corners
Gleaners

The 144k are harvested during the gt.
(Firstfruit jews)

The gt is Jacob's,or Israel's trouble.
God deals with his covenant jews in the gt.

The church age at that point is over.
 

Bingo

Well-known member
Feb 9, 2019
9,179
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~Divine Inspiration With An Earthly Story~ ( Parables )
"Christ taught in parables to invite us to reexamine some of our most cherished convictions about matters of 'Eternal Importance'. For this reason, Jesus’s parables often unsettle rather than reassure."
(Know this and know it well. A parable, or an allegory story
designed to illustrate or teach a moral lesson...to convey a
meaning indirectly by use of comparison.)
"Ponder these words carefully."........The Divine words tell
us precisely...what you see is not what is meant...'They look
and look, but do not see.'
( "The parable is, has been and always will be,
the language of the wise for speaking to the simple,
and the langage of the simple for speaking to the wise…"

'Praise God'
 

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ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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He does at the 2nd coming. At the end of the gt.
Rev 14 is mid to late trib.
No, the only time Christ will be standing on an Earthly mountain is after the trib and second coming. He is in heaven until the trib is to end.

If post trib is to have traction,it must survive a test fit.
Paul specifically said the rapture happens after the second coming and That's the only test needed. Any other rapture view goes against Paul's teaching on the subject.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Context is the second coming!

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Context is the second coming!

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

This is the second coming!


1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


This is the rapture! The Greek word for rapture is harpazo and that's the term used by Paul!

So, the proper order of events according to scripture:

1. the second coming begins/Christ leaves heaven. (1Th 4:16) (this doesn't happen until the tribulation has ended, Mat_24:29)
2. the resurrection. (dead saints resurrect bodily in heaven and follow Christ as he returns to the Earth-second coming) (1Th 4:14-16)
3. the rapture. (living saints on Earth are gathered together from where ever they are on the Earth in order to meet Christ in the clouds when he arrives)(1Th 4:17)
This proves the pre-trib (and mid-trib) rapture to be false because the second coming comes after the tribulation not before or during it, Mat 24:29-30

So, the second coming happens and then the resurrection and then the rapture, all after the trib has ended.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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They are firstfruit Jews.
The Jewish remnant is taken out of the Jewish group..
A Jewish harvest.
Wrong. They are Christians as it specifically says they follow Christ.

"These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth."

Those of Judaism do not follow Christ. Many physical Jews are Christians and have lineages to 12 tribes. These are those types of people.


Harvest is 4 parts.
Firstfruits
Main
Corners
Gleaners

The 144k are harvested during the gt.
(Firstfruit jews)

The gt is Jacob's,or Israel's trouble.
God deals with his covenant jews in the gt.

The church age at that point is over.
This is man made theology. It doesn't come from scripture.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
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No, the only time Christ will be standing on an Earthly mountain is after the trib and second coming. He is in heaven until the trib is to end.



Paul specifically said the rapture happens after the second coming and That's the only test needed. Any other rapture view goes against Paul's teaching on the subject.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Context is the second coming!

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Context is the second coming!

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

This is the second coming!


1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


This is the rapture! The Greek word for rapture is harpazo and that's the term used by Paul!

So, the proper order of events according to scripture:

1. the second coming begins/Christ leaves heaven. (1Th 4:16) (this doesn't happen until the tribulation has ended, Mat_24:29)
2. the resurrection. (dead saints resurrect bodily in heaven and follow Christ as he returns to the Earth-second coming) (1Th 4:14-16)
3. the rapture. (living saints on Earth are gathered together from where ever they are on the Earth in order to meet Christ in the clouds when he arrives)(1Th 4:17)
This proves the pre-trib (and mid-trib) rapture to be false because the second coming comes after the tribulation not before or during it, Mat 24:29-30

So, the second coming happens and then the resurrection and then the rapture, all after the trib has ended.
Lol.
Read 1 thes 4.
It says the dead rise FIRST.
YOU have the dead rising after the harvest of rev 14.
You also have the church never seeing heaven.
But you need to factor in all verses.
Like i said,test fit the rapture.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Wrong. They are Christians as it specifically says they follow Christ.

"These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth."

Those of Judaism do not follow Christ. Many physical Jews are Christians and have lineages to 12 tribes. These are those types of people.




This is man made theology. It doesn't come from scripture.
Ruth is the gentile bride.
That story is around harvest.
The word "firstfruits" is a HARVEST TERM.
Stop acting like you know what you are talking about.
Harvest is what he does.
Very basic bible sir.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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"Wrong. They are Christians as it specifically says they follow Christ."

It even specifies the tribes they are chosen from.
Do you bother to look things up you claim authority on????
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
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No, the only time Christ will be standing on an Earthly mountain is after the trib and second coming. He is in heaven until the trib is to end.



Paul specifically said the rapture happens after the second coming and That's the only test needed. Any other rapture view goes against Paul's teaching on the subject.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Context is the second coming!

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Context is the second coming!

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

This is the second coming!


1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


This is the rapture! The Greek word for rapture is harpazo and that's the term used by Paul!

So, the proper order of events according to scripture:

1. the second coming begins/Christ leaves heaven. (1Th 4:16) (this doesn't happen until the tribulation has ended, Mat_24:29)
2. the resurrection. (dead saints resurrect bodily in heaven and follow Christ as he returns to the Earth-second coming) (1Th 4:14-16)
3. the rapture. (living saints on Earth are gathered together from where ever they are on the Earth in order to meet Christ in the clouds when he arrives)(1Th 4:17)
This proves the pre-trib (and mid-trib) rapture to be false because the second coming comes after the tribulation not before or during it, Mat 24:29-30

So, the second coming happens and then the resurrection and then the rapture, all after the trib has ended.
There are zero verses pointing to a post trib rapture.
We both agree he returns post trib.
That is not a rapture or resurrection
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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Lol.
Read 1 thes 4.
It says the dead rise FIRST.
Yes and it also says the rapture happens after that.

YOU have the dead rising after the harvest of rev 14.
The harvest of Rev 14 is after the dead have risen.


You also have the church never seeing heaven.
The living saints at the second coming do not go to heaven. They live here with Christ and Father and the angels forever.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,006
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There are zero verses pointing to a post trib rapture.
We both agree he returns post trib.
That is not a rapture or resurrection
Scripture disagrees. Paul says the second coming happens, the dead rise and the rapture occurs. That order cannot be changed because it is written and fixed that way permanently.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Context is the second coming!

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Context is the second coming!

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

This is the second coming!


1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


This is the rapture! The Greek word for rapture is harpazo and that's the term used by Paul!

So, the proper order of events according to scripture:

1. the second coming begins/Christ leaves heaven. (1Th 4:16) (this doesn't happen until the tribulation has ended, Mat_24:29)
2. the resurrection. (dead saints resurrect bodily in heaven and follow Christ as he returns to the Earth-second coming) (1Th 4:14-16)
3. the rapture. (living saints on Earth are gathered together from where ever they are on the Earth in order to meet Christ in the clouds when he arrives)(1Th 4:17)
 
Jul 23, 2018
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"This is the rapture! The Greek word for rapture is harpazo and that's the term used by Paul!"

Yep,and look where they go.

The same place the 5 wise virgins go.
The same place Jesus told them at the last supper.

That is how those of rev 19 got there.
They were raptured TO HEAVEN.
Even those first 2 groups of rev 14 go TO HEAVEN during the gt.

So,there are tons of issues trying to place the rapture anywhere but pretrib.

Test fit.
Then take a position
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Yes and it also says the rapture happens after that.



The harvest of Rev 14 is after the dead have risen.




The living saints at the second coming do not go to heaven. They live here with Christ and Father and the angels forever.
Now you really have a problem.
The dead in Christ are caught up first.
We alive and remain meet them IN THE AIR.
Your scenario has huge problems.
Rev 19 has the saints on white horses IN HEAVEN, descending to earth.
Under your model,riderless horses descend and saints mount them mid air.

That dog won't hunt.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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"The harvest of Rev 14 is after the dead have risen"

Which is DURING THE GT.
.....Yet another post trib rapture impossibility.
You inadvertantly place the rev 14 gathering before the dead rise if you think the rapture is post trib
 

Lelija

New member
Mar 10, 2019
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What about kids? Will all kids be raptured? in the past I thought so. Now I do not think so...

What your thought about this issue?
 
Jul 23, 2018
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What about kids? Will all kids be raptured? in the past I thought so. Now I do not think so...

What your thought about this issue?
I do tend to believe what he says in the vid.
The children of believers in times past were martyred along with their parents. Sometimes before the parents to get them to recant.
 
Mar 3, 2019
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Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other, Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

What Jesus says is, working for money and serving God is not possible. Yes I am saying if you work for a paycheck and you say you serve God, you are disobeying what Jesus says. Jesus says...in Luke 12:22-34

Do Not Worry or Be Fearful
And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what he shall eat; neither for the body, what he shall put on. The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment. Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls? And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit? If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take thought for the rest?

To explain Luke 12:22-26
The ravens don’t have jobs or houses, yet God provides everything they need, aren’t you worth much more than these creatures? And who can add more years to themselves? Or there life? Why worry about such things when you can’t even do anything about the least of all these? (Food, shelter, clothes).

Luke 12:27-31 (Continued)
Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and tomorrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith? And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind. For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things. But rather seek first the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.

I believe Jesus makes it very clear on what we need to do as Christians, stop serving money (stop working for money, quit your job) stop worrying where your going to get your next meal, or where you are going to sleep, Jesus says the world worry’s about such things, you are not supposed to be a part of this world. Stop relying on money, using money is ok, but working for it is not. Stop putting your faith in a worldly system and preach the Gospel full time, listen to Jesus.

The second to last verse Luke 12:33
Sell what you have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.

Do you see what Jesus is saying? Every single Christian did what Jesus commands. There was no special person who didn’t sell all and leave everything, preaching the gospel 24/7. Your job is to preach his word, and he gives you the essentials you need. 1 Timothy 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

Assumption #1- Jesus was never a carpenter the only verse you can see is his father being a carpenter in Mark 6:3. Jesus started preaching when he was 12 Year’s old according to scripture, in Luke 42-49. He never served (worked for) money, he did use money though, his treasurer was Judas (the one who betrayed him).

Definition of Forsaketh according to Jesus is found in all the gospels, but I am going to use Mark 10:17-21 for this claim.

And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth. Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

The definition is clear consistently through all 4 of the gospels. The Word of God has spoken and commands this as a requirement to inherit eternal life with him. Jesus Christ has the ultimate authority in the Bible, the Old Testament does not teach us how to live as Christ did, that is why the New Testament (Jesus Christ’s teachings more importantly) applies to us, hence forth New Testament. Notice Jesus told him he LACKED one thing, now you can say this only applies to the rich man, but that is a lie. It applies to everyone that truly loves Jesus. In the rest of the scripture, right around Luke 14:33 Jesus addressed the entire multitude of people, rich and poor, women, children all kinds of people. Here it is.

-The Cost of Discipleship- Luke 14:25-27
And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them, If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

Reflecting of Luke 14:33-Acts 2:45-47 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man hath need. And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Reflecting of Luke 14:33 again, Matthew 13:44-46

-The Treasure and the Goodly Pearl-
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field. Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

These are the commands of Jesus in a parable, the man sold everything to inherit eternal life. Now I have heard the arguments against what Jesus commands, the biggest one is people want to point to Paul and say he has a higher authority than God in the flesh and they say, “Paul worked as a tent maker!” So sense he worked for money it’s ok. Really? I would recommend that you only follow Jesus and what he says. But let’s take a look at this argument.

Acts 18:3-5
And because he was of the same craft, he abode with them, and wrought: for by there occupation they were tentmakers. And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks. And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ. And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.

Paul worked at making tents with a couple other Jews while preaching the gospel, but reading it in the entire context, two other disciples came along and he was pricked in his spirit and decided to leave to preach the Gospel full time once again. Now this passage does not say he labored (worked, served) for money, all it says was he was creating tents, even if he did work for money, he soon told his fellow tent makers that Jesus was Christ and they rejected him, so he left to a brothers house to tell him the good news instead and was received there.

Another passage of scripture people use as a excuse to not obey Jesus is....

1 Timothy 5:8
But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

This is taking scripture out of context, the title of this section of verses is called...

-Provisions for Widows-
Verses 5:1-10 the last verse says “Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she has longed strangers, if she have washed the saints’ feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.

Let’s compare Jesus teachings with 1 Timothy 5:10, then we can understand what 5:8 means.

“Brought up children”...- Matthew 18:5 “And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.”’ “If she hath lodged strangers”...Luke 14:13 “But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind. (The first Christians utilized money to rent a place or stayed at someone else’s place if invited in. Matthew 10:14). “If she have washed the saints’ feet”-Matthew 22:32 “But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren” (I believe this applies to every follower of Jesus, that we should strengthen each other). “If she have relieved the afflicted,”...Mark 16:17 “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues.”

This explains that Timothy was simply obeying Jesus Christ’s commands, including the widows. Now 1 Timothy 5:8 is saying work as in working to build Jesus Christ’s kingdom, working serving Jesus and obeying his commands. Not serving money. When you deny the faith, what it is really saying is your denying that God will provide all your needs when preaching the word full time without having money or anything else for that matter. If you don’t have faith in what Jesus says, how in the world do you believe he’s going to resurrect you from the dead? There is no room for Luke warm Christians. You either listen to Jesus or you will be grinded to powder. Jesus says they would reject the corner stone of his teachings. This is essentiall and required by every follower of Christ.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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Acts 3:13-16 [blb] [Peter speaking to "YE MEN OF ISRAEL" v.12] -

13 The God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus, whom indeed you betrayed and disowned in the presence of Pilate, that one having adjudged to release Him. 14 But you denied the Holy and Righteous One and requested a murderer to be granted to you. 15 And you killed the Author of life, whom God has raised up out from the dead, whereof we are witnesses.

16 And on the faith in His name, this man whom you see and know, His name has strengthened; and the faith which is through Him has given to him this complete soundness before all of you.

17 And now, brothers [Peter's "Jewish" brothers], I know that you acted in ignorance, as did your rulers also. 18 But what God foretold by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ should suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Repent, therefore, and turn again, for the blotting out of your sins, 20 so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that He may send the One having been appointed to you, Christ Jesus, 21 whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times of restoration of all things, of which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from the age.

22 For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up to you a prophet like me out from your brothers. You will listen to Him in all things, as many as He might say to you. 23 And it will be that every soul who might not heed that prophet will be utterly destroyed out from the people.’ [the phrase "the people" is used to refer to the people of Israel]

24 And also all the prophets from Samuel, and those subsequently, as many as have spoken, also have proclaimed these days. 25 You are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant that God made with your fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth will be blessed.’ 26 God, having raised up [that is, to a position of prominence in His earthly ministry BEFORE His death] His servant, sent Him FIRST to you, blessing you in turning away each of you from your wickednesses.”
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other, Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

What Jesus says is, working for money and serving God is not possible. Yes I am saying if you work for a paycheck and you say you serve God, you are disobeying what Jesus says. Jesus says...in Luke 12:22-34

Do Not Worry or Be Fearful
And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what he shall eat; neither for the body, what he shall put on. The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment. Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls? And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit? If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take thought for the rest?

To explain Luke 12:22-26
The ravens don’t have jobs or houses, yet God provides everything they need, aren’t you worth much more than these creatures? And who can add more years to themselves? Or there life? Why worry about such things when you can’t even do anything about the least of all these? (Food, shelter, clothes).

Luke 12:27-31 (Continued)
Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and tomorrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith? And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind. For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things. But rather seek first the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.

I believe Jesus makes it very clear on what we need to do as Christians, stop serving money (stop working for money, quit your job) stop worrying where your going to get your next meal, or where you are going to sleep, Jesus says the world worry’s about such things, you are not supposed to be a part of this world. Stop relying on money, using money is ok, but working for it is not. Stop putting your faith in a worldly system and preach the Gospel full time, listen to Jesus.

The second to last verse Luke 12:33
Sell what you have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.

Do you see what Jesus is saying? Every single Christian did what Jesus commands. There was no special person who didn’t sell all and leave everything, preaching the gospel 24/7. Your job is to preach his word, and he gives you the essentials you need. 1 Timothy 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

Assumption #1- Jesus was never a carpenter the only verse you can see is his father being a carpenter in Mark 6:3. Jesus started preaching when he was 12 Year’s old according to scripture, in Luke 42-49. He never served (worked for) money, he did use money though, his treasurer was Judas (the one who betrayed him).

Definition of Forsaketh according to Jesus is found in all the gospels, but I am going to use Mark 10:17-21 for this claim.

And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth. Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

The definition is clear consistently through all 4 of the gospels. The Word of God has spoken and commands this as a requirement to inherit eternal life with him. Jesus Christ has the ultimate authority in the Bible, the Old Testament does not teach us how to live as Christ did, that is why the New Testament (Jesus Christ’s teachings more importantly) applies to us, hence forth New Testament. Notice Jesus told him he LACKED one thing, now you can say this only applies to the rich man, but that is a lie. It applies to everyone that truly loves Jesus. In the rest of the scripture, right around Luke 14:33 Jesus addressed the entire multitude of people, rich and poor, women, children all kinds of people. Here it is.

-The Cost of Discipleship- Luke 14:25-27
And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them, If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

Reflecting of Luke 14:33-Acts 2:45-47 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man hath need. And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Reflecting of Luke 14:33 again, Matthew 13:44-46

-The Treasure and the Goodly Pearl-
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field. Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

These are the commands of Jesus in a parable, the man sold everything to inherit eternal life. Now I have heard the arguments against what Jesus commands, the biggest one is people want to point to Paul and say he has a higher authority than God in the flesh and they say, “Paul worked as a tent maker!” So sense he worked for money it’s ok. Really? I would recommend that you only follow Jesus and what he says. But let’s take a look at this argument.

Acts 18:3-5
And because he was of the same craft, he abode with them, and wrought: for by there occupation they were tentmakers. And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks. And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ. And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.

Paul worked at making tents with a couple other Jews while preaching the gospel, but reading it in the entire context, two other disciples came along and he was pricked in his spirit and decided to leave to preafellow tent makers that Jesus was Christ and they rejected him, so he

-Provisions for Widows-
Verses 5:1-10 the last v

Let’s compare Jesus teachings with 1 Timothy 5:10, then we can understand what 5:8 means.

“Brought up children”...- Matthew 18:5 “And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.”’ “If she hath lodged strangers”...Luke 14:13 “But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind. (The first Christians utilized money to rent a place or stayed at someone else’s place if invited in. Matthew 10:14). “If she have washed the saints’ feet”-Matthew 22:32 “But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren” (I believe this applies to every follower of Jesus, that we should strengthen each other). “If she have relieved the afflicted,”...Mark 16:17 “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues.”

This explains that Timothy was simply obeying Jesus Christ’s commands, including the widows. Now 1 Timothy 5:8 is saying work as in working to build Jesus Christ’s kingdom, working serving Jesus and obeying his commands. Not serving money. When you deny the faith, what it is really saying is your denying that God will provide all your needs when preaching the word full time without having money or anything else for that matter. If you don’t have faith in what Jesus says, how in the world do you believe he’s going to resurrect you from the dead? There is no room for Luke warm Christians. You either listen to Jesus or you will be grinded to powder. Jesus says they would reject the corner stone of his teachings. This is essentiall and required by every follower of Christ.
Yes indeed.
All that is covered in one's total commitment to Jesus. Abandonment of self and the world.
Good word to a wishy washy church.

I see it in myself. The call is always there. Total abandonment.
The road is clogged with "useless twits" blocking the way.
The walk was not designed for noncommittal and lukewarm.

A no brainer offshoot is cessationism. It is the incubated child of the backslidden leadership.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Acts 3:13-16 [blb] [Peter speaking to "YE MEN OF ISRAEL" v.12] -

13 The God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus, whom indeed you betrayed and disowned in the presence of Pilate, that one having adjudged to release Him. 14 But you denied the Holy and Righteous One and requested a murderer to be granted to you. 15 And you killed the Author of life, whom God has raised up out from the dead, whereof we are witnesses.

16 And on the faith in His name, this man whom you see and know, His name has strengthened; and the faith which is through Him has given to him this complete soundness before all of you.

17 And now, brothers [Peter's "Jewish" brothers], I know that you acted in ignorance, as did your rulers also. 18 But what God foretold by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ should suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Repent, therefore, and turn again, for the blotting out of your sins, 20 so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that He may send the One having been appointed to you, Christ Jesus, 21 whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times of restoration of all things, of which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from the age.

22 For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up to you a prophet like me out from your brothers. You will listen to Him in all things, as many as He might say to you. 23 And it will be that every soul who might not heed that prophet will be utterly destroyed out from the people.’ [the phrase "the people" is used to refer to the people of Israel]

24 And also all the prophets from Samuel, and those subsequently, as many as have spoken, also have proclaimed these days. 25 You are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant that God made with your fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth will be blessed.’ 26 God, having raised up [that is, to a position of prominence in His earthly ministry BEFORE His death] His servant, sent Him FIRST to you, blessing you in turning away each of you from your wickednesses.”
The restoration of all things started with the advent of Jesus,continuing to the building and rapture of the bride on into the feast in heaven and the redemption of the planet/land followed by the gathering of the Jews in rev 14 the destruction of satan and the coming new Jerusalem with the throne of David established.