Teachings of Jesus

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Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,502
713
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#21
Here is a summation of what I believe is a balanced view of wealth, which I borrowed and edited.

Everyone, it seems, wants to be rich. Can a Christian be rich and still be a real Christian?

After all, Jesus was poor. The Apostles were poor. Jesus told the rich young ruler to sell all that he had and give to the poor. Not unreasonably, many people believe that a person cannot be both Christian and rich. So, while many rich think of themselves as Christian, they are also afraid of being real Christians, because no one wants to be poor.


The Bible deals a lot with riches. The ideal in Proverbs is a middle amount of wealth. “Give me neither poverty nor riches – Feed me with the food you prescribe for me; lest I be full and deny You, And say, “Who is the Lord?” Or lest I be poor and steal, and profane the name of my God (Proverbs 30:8-9).”

The Apostle Paul wrote that he had learned how to be content with both poverty and abundance. “I know how to get along with humble means, and I also know how to live in prosperity. I have learned the secret both of being filled and going hungry, both of having abundance and suffering need. I can do all things through Him who strengthens me (Philippians 4:12-13).” Jesus had rich friends who helped support Him (see Luke 8:3). He did not tell them to give all their money away and be poor.

Wealth, according to the Bible, is like fire, good but dangerous. Everyone sees the good, so the Bible warns us about the danger. Danger one: the desire to get rich (I Timothy 6:10). Danger two: worry about money (Matthew 6:25-34). Danger three: trusting in wealth rather than God (Luke 12:16-21). Danger four: loving money as your god, when no man can actually serve two masters (Matthew 6:24). Danger five: using your money to oppress other people (James 2:6, Isaiah 3:15, Amos 2:6-7). Wise men fear the temptations that wealth brings.

The ideal rich man in the Bible is Job. He never loved his wealth more than God. He used it freely to help others (Job 31). But when he lost it all in one day, he still revered God. And after Job had proven his love for God, God made him rich again. So a man can be rich and love God. One can be a real Christian and be rich. But it is not easy, the Bible says, and experience confirms it. Jesus knew that the rich young ruler would not obey the most important thing he told him – “and come, follow me” – if he kept his wealth.

The goal of getting rich is a foolish goal. You can’t take it with you (I Timothy 6:7). No one needs to have millions upon millions.

A wise man prays for his daily bread. “And if we have food and covering, with these we shall be content (I Timothy 6:8).” A man can be rich and be one of God’s people. Abraham was a rich man. But a man cannot have a life goal of getting rich and be a Christian.

The greatest goal the Creator gives to man is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever. It is not to get rich. One can indeed be rich and be a Christian, but one cannot worship God and Mammon (money).

Seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and do not worry what else gets added to you in this life, whether much or little. The reward that Christians seek is eternal life, the infinite and certain reward for all who believe in Jesus and obey Him as King.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,954
13,615
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#22
Matthew 5
16 Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

i've been thinking about this over the last couple weeks, actually -- what does He consider 'good works' here, seeing that in the next chapter He specifically instructs us not to give, not to pray, and not fast in such a way that others see you doing it?

so praying, fasting, and giving - are these things not '
good works' in the context of 'letting your light shine' ?

tough question, IMO
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,954
13,615
113
#23
They first Christians didn’t have weekly paychecks to buy food or clothes, it says
Acts 2:45-46
And sold there possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man hath need. And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart.

Matthew 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness and all these things shall be added.

God will provide everything you need, if you just put your faith in him completely, without relying on a system to support you.

so why do all the verses i quoted to you exist?
why does the Bible say, if you refuse to work, i ain't supposed to allow you to eat?


still not clear to me how you reconcile 1 Timothy 5, 1 Thessalonians 4, 2 Thessalonians 3 & Ephesians 4 with this???
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,954
13,615
113
#24
God will provide everything you need, if you just put your faith in him completely, without relying on a system to support you.

i have so many questions!! sorry :p


why is this in the Bible?

I went past the field of a sluggard,
past the vineyard of someone who has no sense;
thorns had come up everywhere,
the ground was covered with weeds,
and the stone wall was in ruins.
I applied my heart to what I observed
and learned a lesson from what I saw:
A little sleep, a little slumber,
a little folding of the hands to rest—
and poverty will come on you like a thief
and scarcity like an armed man.
(Proverbs 24:30-34)

is Solomon contradicting Jesus Christ?
 
Mar 3, 2019
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#25
i've been thinking about this over the last couple weeks, actually -- what does He consider 'good works' here, seeing that in the next chapter He specifically instructs us not to give, not to pray, and not fast in such a way that others see you doing it?

so praying, fasting, and giving - are these things not 'good works' in the context of 'letting your light shine' ?

tough question, IMO

Not to give?
Matthew 6:1-4
Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

It’s impossible to hide your own good works from yourself and the other people you have helped, Jesus I believe said “to be seen of them:” I believe he is talking about boasting and telling others what you have done, this includes miracles that is between you and God. I would think he means keeping it a secretive as possible.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,954
13,615
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#26
Ok regardless of what reason he lef
that's kind of weird to see you write, seeing that the reason he left was not just central to your dialogue about Acts 18, it was in fact the entirety of your argument..

you're just dropping that altogether, conceding that your comments on that were baseless? ok. thanks! - that was my goal for you :)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,954
13,615
113
#27
not to give "in such a way that others see you doing it"
obviously Jesus didn't say '
don't give'

3 things in Matthew 6 He says, do in secret so that only the Father sees them.

in Matthew 5 He says let your good works be seen by all men.

so my question is, are the three things He talks about on the next page the things He says '
let all men see' ?
because He says be careful not to do them for men to see. are giving, praying and fasting '
your light' ? seems like there's a contradiction there, if you say yes, they are -- understand what i'm seeing here?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,954
13,615
113
#28
It’s impossible to hide your own good works from yourself
so what does 'do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing' mean?
is He giving an impossible command? setting me up for certain failure?
 
Mar 3, 2019
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#29
so why do all the verses i quoted to you exist?
why does the Bible say, if you refuse to work, i ain't supposed to allow you to eat?


still not clear to me how you reconcile 1 Timothy 5, 1 Thessalonians 4, 2 Thessalonians 3 & Ephesians 4 with this???

Working for Jesus is preaching the word of God, healing the sick, raising the dead, obeying what Jesus taught, then God provides everything you need to survive out there.

Matthew 6:25. Luke 4:4, Luke 6:25, Matthew 10:10, Matthew 28-29.

There REWARD brother for preaching the gospel is food, water, a place to rest. God works through the rest of the world. That’s what Jesus means when he says put the kingdom of God first and the rest will be added.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,954
13,615
113
#30
Working for Jesus is preaching the word of God, healing the sick, raising the dead, obeying what Jesus taught, then God provides everything you need to survive out there.

Matthew 6:25. Luke 4:4, Luke 6:25, Matthew 10:10, Matthew 28-29.

There REWARD brother for preaching the gospel is food, water, a place to rest. God works through the rest of the world. That’s what Jesus means when he says put the kingdom of God first and the rest will be added.
is that how you got internet access and a device to post here from? raising the dead, healing the sick and preaching the gospel?

i know some people who died... can i get you to come over? i'll let you use my wifi
 
Mar 3, 2019
64
6
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#31
not to give "in such a way that others see you doing it"
obviously Jesus didn't say '
don't give'


3 things in Matthew 6 He says, do in secret so that only the Father sees them.

in Matthew 5 He says let your good works be seen by all men.

so my question is, are the three things He talks about on the next page the things He says 'let all men see' ?
because He says be careful not to do them for men to see. are giving, praying and fasting '
your light' ? seems like there's a contradiction there, if you say yes, they are -- understand what i'm seeing here?

Good works, (preaching the gospel) Doing things in secret so you can have a reward in heaven. Not everything has to be in secret. Jesus told a couple of people he healed to tell family members so that they might believe in him Mark 5:19, John 5:14-15.

Praying is secret I believe do just as Jesus says in Matthew 6:5-13. There is no contradiction in any of Jesus teachings.
Giving Matthew 6:1-4 and Fasting should be done in secret. The giving part can not always be done in secret, like Jesus says the Religious leaders did everything out in the open, praying out on the streets, Distorting there faces so it can seem like there fasting, and giving (offerings mostly). Jesus says to do all these in secret (to the best of your ability) is building your reward in heaven. Boasting about giving or telling every soul you have meant that you have given I wouldn’t think Jesus would be ok with that.
 
Mar 3, 2019
64
6
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#32
is that how you got internet access and a device to post here from? raising the dead, healing the sick and preaching the gospel?

i know some people who died... can i get you to come over? i'll let you use my wifi
It sounds like you don’t really believe in what Jesus says brother and making fun of other people that are deceased isn’t a Godly example. I will leave you to yourself then.

Peace be apon you brother.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,954
13,615
113
#33
It sounds like you don’t really believe in what Jesus says brother and making fun of other people that are deceased isn’t a Godly example. I will leave you to yourself then.

Peace be apon you brother.
i seriously do have both people and beloved pets who are infirm and that have died who i would like to spend more time with on this earth.

if you seriously have no possessions and no earthly vocation by which to earn sustenance either for yourself or your family, and make your way though this life by raising the dead and healing the sick as your sole employment, then seriously, i will feed you lunch and dinner, and give you an internet-enabled device and access to wifi. i'll make sandwiches for your wife and kids too if you seriously see to their needs in no other way but by going about raising the dead and healing the ill.
PM me to arrange it.


or duck and run when it comes down to putting your feet where your mouth is.
your call :)
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,502
713
113
#34
From an old dead fellow named Tozer;
The blessed ones who possess the Kingdom are they who have repudiated every external thing and have rooted from their hearts all sense of possessing. These are the "poor in spirit." They have reached an inward state paralleling the outward circumstances of the common beggar in the streets of Jerusalem. . . These blessed poor are no longer slaves to the tyranny of things. . . Though free from all sense of possessing, they yet possess all things. "Theirs is the kingdom of heaven."