Why is praying in tongues necessary?

[Sketch]

Without the Church Fathers how would you document the existence of Spiritual Gifts in the Church beyond the time of the NT?

That depends on who you ask.

A.D. 100 - Eusebius (Church Historian):
Writing to the preaching evangelists who were yet living, Eusebius says:
"Of those that flourished in these times, Quadratus is said to have been distinguished
for his prophetical gifts. There were many others, also, noted in these times who held
rank in the apostolic succession... the Holy Spirit also wrought many wonders as yet
through them, so that as the Gospel was heard, men in crowds voluntarily and eagerly
embraced the true faith with their whole minds."

A.D. 115-202 - Irenaeus:
Irenaeus was a pupil of Polycarp, who was a disciple of the apostle John.
He wrote in his book "Against Heresies", Book V, vi.: "In like manner do we also hear
many brethren in the church who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit
speak all kinds of languages, and bring to light, for the general benefit, the hidden
things of men and declare the mysteries of God, who also the apostles term spiritual."

A.D. 300 - The Early Martyrs:
The early martyrs enjoyed these gifts. Dean Ferrar, in his book "Darkness to Dawn" states:
"Even for the minutest allusions and particulars I have contemporary authority." He refers
to the persecuted Christians in Rome singing and speaking in unknown tongues.

A.D. 390 - Chrysostom of Constantinople:
Chrysostom, Bishop of Constantinople, writes: "Whoever was baptised in apostolic days,
he straightway spoke with tongues, for since on their coming over from idols, without any
clear knowledge or training in the Scriptures, they at once received the Spirit, not that
they saw the Spirit, for He is invisible, but God's grace bestowed some sensible proof of
His energy, and one straightway spoke in the Persian language, another in the Roman,
another in the Indian, another in some other tongues, and this made manifest to them that
were without that it was the Spirit in the very person speaking. Wherefore the apostle
calls it the manifestation of the Spirit which is given to every man to profit withal."

A.D. 400 - Augustine of Hippo:
Augustine, Bishop of Hippo, one of the four great fathers of the Latin Church and
considered the greatest of them all: "We still do what the apostles did when they laid
hands on the Samaritans and called down the Holy Spirit on them in the laying-on of hands.
It is expected that converts should speak with new tongues."

Source link

 

[TheLearner]

Five Different kinds of tongues
1) Personal prayer language - Speaking to/with God
2) Intercessory prayer language - Praying for others in the Spirit

Me: Jesus clearly says to pray in our closets. Public prayers are to be done in an orderly manner, not all at once. Not a God of confusion.

3) Prophetic prayer language - Addressing the whole church/preferably with interpretation

Interpretation of Prophecy in the church is not a prayer.

4) Singing in the Spirit - Singing in tongues/worship activity

"Singing In the Spirit" has a wide range of meanings. In the ZONDERVAN DICTIONARY OF PENTECOSTAL AND CHARISMATIC MOVEMENTS, Donald A. Johns has pointed out that in I Corinthians 14: 13-19, Paul seems to equate singing in the Spirit with singing in tongues (p. 788). On the other hand, in the same reference work, Delton L. Alford refers to singing in the Spirit as "spiritual or spirited singing" (p. 690), in contrast to "communicative or impactive singing," or what Paul refers to as singing with the understanding.

Is the singing in the Spirit in done in order, in unison in Pentecostal Churches?

5) Evangelistic language - Speaking the message of God to a people in their own language (not yours)

Acts 2

 

[TheLearner]

That depends on who you ask.

A.D. 100 - Eusebius (Church Historian):
Writing to the preaching evangelists who were yet living, Eusebius says:
"Of those that flourished in these times, Quadratus is said to have been distinguished
for his prophetical gifts. There were many others, also, noted in these times who held
rank in the apostolic succession... the Holy Spirit also wrought many wonders as yet
through them, so that as the Gospel was heard, men in crowds voluntarily and eagerly
embraced the true faith with their whole minds."

A.D. 115-202 - Irenaeus:
Irenaeus was a pupil of Polycarp, who was a disciple of the apostle John.
He wrote in his book "Against Heresies", Book V, vi.: "In like manner do we also hear
many brethren in the church who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit
speak all kinds of languages, and bring to light, for the general benefit, the hidden
things of men and declare the mysteries of God, who also the apostles term spiritual."

A.D. 300 - The Early Martyrs:
The early martyrs enjoyed these gifts. Dean Ferrar, in his book "Darkness to Dawn" states:
"Even for the minutest allusions and particulars I have contemporary authority." He refers
to the persecuted Christians in Rome singing and speaking in unknown tongues.

A.D. 390 - Chrysostom of Constantinople:
Chrysostom, Bishop of Constantinople, writes: "Whoever was baptised in apostolic days,
he straightway spoke with tongues, for since on their coming over from idols, without any
clear knowledge or training in the Scriptures, they at once received the Spirit, not that
they saw the Spirit, for He is invisible, but God's grace bestowed some sensible proof of
His energy, and one straightway spoke in the Persian language, another in the Roman,
another in the Indian, another in some other tongues, and this made manifest to them that
were without that it was the Spirit in the very person speaking. Wherefore the apostle
calls it the manifestation of the Spirit which is given to every man to profit withal."

A.D. 400 - Augustine of Hippo:
Augustine, Bishop of Hippo, one of the four great fathers of the Latin Church and
considered the greatest of them all: "We still do what the apostles did when they laid
hands on the Samaritans and called down the Holy Spirit on them in the laying-on of hands.
It is expected that converts should speak with new tongues."

Source link

See here so I do not forget to address this. https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/some-church-fathers-on-speaking-in-tongues.183037/

In this thread, the quotes do not show that there was the confusion in churches that are in order. Paul wrote to Conrth about it because they were disorderly.

 

[Sketch]

Acts 2

Why are there things in my post quote that I did not write?

 

[TheLearner]

That depends on who you ask.

A.D. 100 - Eusebius (Church Historian):
Writing to the preaching evangelists who were yet living, Eusebius says:
"Of those that flourished in these times, Quadratus is said to have been distinguished
for his prophetical gifts. There were many others, also, noted in these times who held
rank in the apostolic succession... the Holy Spirit also wrought many wonders as yet
through them, so that as the Gospel was heard, men in crowds voluntarily and eagerly
embraced the true faith with their whole minds."

A.D. 115-202 - Irenaeus:
Irenaeus was a pupil of Polycarp, who was a disciple of the apostle John.
He wrote in his book "Against Heresies", Book V, vi.: "In like manner do we also hear
many brethren in the church who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit
speak all kinds of languages, and bring to light, for the general benefit, the hidden
things of men and declare the mysteries of God, who also the apostles term spiritual."

A.D. 300 - The Early Martyrs:
The early martyrs enjoyed these gifts. Dean Ferrar, in his book "Darkness to Dawn" states:
"Even for the minutest allusions and particulars I have contemporary authority." He refers
to the persecuted Christians in Rome singing and speaking in unknown tongues.

A.D. 390 - Chrysostom of Constantinople:
Chrysostom, Bishop of Constantinople, writes: "Whoever was baptised in apostolic days,
he straightway spoke with tongues, for since on their coming over from idols, without any
clear knowledge or training in the Scriptures, they at once received the Spirit, not that
they saw the Spirit, for He is invisible, but God's grace bestowed some sensible proof of
His energy, and one straightway spoke in the Persian language, another in the Roman,
another in the Indian, another in some other tongues, and this made manifest to them that
were without that it was the Spirit in the very person speaking. Wherefore the apostle
calls it the manifestation of the Spirit which is given to every man to profit withal."

A.D. 400 - Augustine of Hippo:
Augustine, Bishop of Hippo, one of the four great fathers of the Latin Church and
considered the greatest of them all: "We still do what the apostles did when they laid
hands on the Samaritans and called down the Holy Spirit on them in the laying-on of hands.
It is expected that converts should speak with new tongues."

Source link

The answer to these quotes is given at https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/some-church-fathers-on-speaking-in-tongues.183037/

I put them there because the posts are long for the purpose of putting quotes in context. I do not see any of the quotes that were given as proving that speaking in tongues is not a human language.

 

[TheLearner]

Why are there things in my post quote that I did not write?

fair enough. I emailed your source web site so they can come up with answers in the other thread. As a trained Historian, I seek primary sources in context with links to that the source of the primary links over a list that gets copied into second and third level sources. If they upgrade their site, please post that upgrade in the other thread. I expect that thread to die out since it is only an historical source thread.

 

[TheLearner]

read to here

 

[Iconoclast]

No one prays , speaks, or sings in tongues...nobody
In romans 8...the word used is alaleo...not a tongue...

 

[Lafftur]

If I speak against the gift of tongues, am I actually speaking against the Giver of the gift?

Would this be a wise thing to do?

 

[wolfwint]

If I speak against the gift of tongues, am I actually speaking against the Giver of the gift?

Would this be a wise thing to do?

Nope, if it is a false teaching. Speaking in tongues was a gift which was not giving to all believers, as the gift of healing was not giving to all believers.

If it, as it is today taught, that all believers can have the gift of speakimg in tongues is a false teaching. Which we cant find in the bible.
As child of God, it doesnt matter i pray in tongues ore in any language. Praying in tongues brings me not to an deeper relationship with the father.
So for what is it nessasary to pray in tongues?

 

[Budman]

Nope.

So many great men of the faith never spoke a word in tongues.

Even Paul said, "I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue." (1 Corinthians 14:9)

Kinda puts it into perspective right there.

 

[Lafftur]

Nope, if it is a false teaching. Speaking in tongues was a gift which was not giving to all believers, as the gift of healing was not giving to all believers.

If it, as it is today taught, that all believers can have the gift of speakimg in tongues is a false teaching. Which we cant find in the bible.
As child of God, it doesnt matter i pray in tongues ore in any language. Praying in tongues brings me not to an deeper relationship with the father.
So for what is it nessasary to pray in tongues?

Nope.

So many great men of the faith never spoke a word in tongues.

Even Paul said, "I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue." (1 Corinthians 14:9)

Kinda puts it into perspective right there.

Hello wolfwint and Budman,

Wouldn't it be foolish to say to God, "The gift You want to give me is not necessary?"

God knows what is necessary and He gives gifts according to His Will. Who are we to speak against Him?

Paul did not speak against the gift of tongues or the Giver of the gift, he never said the gift of tongues was not necessary.

Paul did say when in public it is better to speak a known language that can be understood but, he never said tongues was not necessary.

 

[wolfwint]

Hello wolfwint and Budman,

Wouldn't it be foolish to say to God, "The gift You want to give me is not necessary?"

God knows what is necessary and He gives gifts according to His Will. Who are we to speak against Him?

Paul did not speak against the gift of tongues or the Giver of the gift, he never said the gift of tongues was not necessary.

Paul did say when in public it is better to speak a known language that can be understood but, he never said tongues was not necessary.

Paul also never said praying in tongues is nessasary. And as the bible says it is normal that not all believers will get this gift.
So for what is it nessassary today?

 

[Lafftur]

Paul also never said praying in tongues is nessasary. And as the bible says it is normal that not all believers will get this gift.
So for what is it nessassary today?

We know the Holy Spirit is our Teacher and the gift of tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit so, no one can explain it better than the Holy Spirit!

I have given answers in previous posts, and now, have no more answers for you. I wish you all the best!

 

[TheLearner]

If I speak against the gift of tongues, am I actually speaking against the Giver of the gift?

Would this be a wise thing to do?

No one is following I Thess 5:21 to prove all things.

God for example gave us tests for prophets:

Deuteronomy 18:20-22
But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’— when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.

Jeremiah 28:9 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
9 As for the prophet who prophesies peace, when the word of that prophet comes to pass, then it will be known that the Lord has truly sent the prophet.”

Deut 13:1 If prophets or those who divine by dreams appear among you and promise you omens or portents, 13:2 and the omens or the portents declared by them take place, and they say, "Let us follow other gods" (whom you have not known) "and let us serve them," 13:3 you must not heed the words of those prophets or those who divine by dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you, to know whether you indeed love the LORD your God with all your heart and soul.

Deuteronomy 13.6-8:

13:6 If anyone secretly entices you--even if it is your brother, your father's son or your mother's son, or your own son or daughter, or the wife you embrace, or your most intimate friend--saying, "Let us go worship other gods," whom neither you nor your ancestors have known, 13:7 any of the gods of the peoples that are around you, whether near you or far away from you, from one end of the earth to the other, 13:8 you must not yield to or heed any such persons.

I Cor 14
9 So with yourselves; if you in a tongue utter speech that is not intelligible, how will any one know what is said? For you will be speaking into the air. 10 There are doubtless many different languages in the world, and none is without meaning; 11 but if I do not know the meaning of the language, I shall be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me.

Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said.

God expects us to test spiritual manifestations to see if they really come from the giver of gifts or are just made up or are from demons.


There are false prophets, cults that speaks in Gibberish aka as tongues as used in modern pentecostal churches.

It is a logical fallacy to say if the false exists that proves the genuine exists. If one were to make a false five and a half dollar bill that would not prove a real one exists. If one were a false prophet does not mean that a real exists.

 

[Lafftur]

No one is following I Thess 5:21 to prove all things.

God for example gave us tests for prophets:

Deuteronomy 18:20-22
But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’— when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.

Jeremiah 28:9 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
9 As for the prophet who prophesies peace, when the word of that prophet comes to pass, then it will be known that the Lord has truly sent the prophet.”

Deut 13:1 If prophets or those who divine by dreams appear among you and promise you omens or portents, 13:2 and the omens or the portents declared by them take place, and they say, "Let us follow other gods" (whom you have not known) "and let us serve them," 13:3 you must not heed the words of those prophets or those who divine by dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you, to know whether you indeed love the LORD your God with all your heart and soul.

Deuteronomy 13.6-8:

13:6 If anyone secretly entices you--even if it is your brother, your father's son or your mother's son, or your own son or daughter, or the wife you embrace, or your most intimate friend--saying, "Let us go worship other gods," whom neither you nor your ancestors have known, 13:7 any of the gods of the peoples that are around you, whether near you or far away from you, from one end of the earth to the other, 13:8 you must not yield to or heed any such persons.

I Cor 14
9 So with yourselves; if you in a tongue utter speech that is not intelligible, how will any one know what is said? For you will be speaking into the air. 10 There are doubtless many different languages in the world, and none is without meaning; 11 but if I do not know the meaning of the language, I shall be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me.

Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said.

God expects us to test spiritual manifestations to see if they really come from the giver of gifts or are just made up or are from demons.


There are false prophets, cults that speaks in Gibberish aka as tongues as used in modern pentecostal churches.

It is a logical fallacy to say if the false exists that proves the genuine exists. If one were to make a false five and a half dollar bill that would not prove a real one exists. If one were a false prophet does not mean that a real exists.

God does not want us testing spiritual manifestations with our human reasoning. The Holy Spirit which is The Spirit of Truth will bear witness to everything that is of God and is True.

We can throw scriptures back and forth all day to prove our points but, it won't matter. It takes a deep love for the Truth to receive it.

All the gifts of the Holy Spirit are in operation, right now on the Earth because the Holy Spirit is on the Earth. None of these gifts operate without the Holy Spirit. Only when Christ returns to Earth are the gifts no longer necessary.

Human reasoning is blindness.

 

[TheLearner]

Nope, if it is a false teaching. Speaking in tongues was a gift which was not giving to all believers, as the gift of healing was not giving to all believers.

If it, as it is today taught, that all believers can have the gift of speakimg in tongues is a false teaching. Which we cant find in the bible.
As child of God, it doesnt matter i pray in tongues ore in any language. Praying in tongues brings me not to an deeper relationship with the father.
So for what is it nessasary to pray in tongues?

I Cor 12
29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?

From the grammar the answer is NO, not all are prophets .... not all speak with tongues....

4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 6 and there are varieties of working, but it is the same God who inspires them all in every one. 7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.

One Body with Many Members
12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

14 For the body does not consist of one member but of many. 15 If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell? 18 But as it is, God arranged the organs in the body, each one of them, as he chose. 19 If all were a single organ, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, yet one body. 21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you,” nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22 On the contrary, the parts of the body which seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and those parts of the body which we think less honorable we invest with the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty, 24 which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so adjusted the body, giving the greater honor to the inferior part, 25 that there may be no discord in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26 If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.

27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. 28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the higher gifts.

And I will show you a still more excellent way.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Why is praying in tongues necessary?

Romans 8:26-27 New International Version (NIV)
26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

This common proof text does not say the Holy Spirit is praying in tongues unknown to the Human through the Human's mouth. A groan is not a human language and Acts 2 was plainly in Human Languages.

Acts 2
5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken.7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans?8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language?9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,[b] 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!”

Speaking, singing in tongues is our hearts expressing the Holy Spirit from our souls to the Lord.
It is us lost in wonder and praise to the King. It bypasses our minds and filters and just speaks at
level we can otherwise reach.

We are born from heaven, and speak heavens language.
Our spirits sometimes can express to God something deeper and more profound than we can grasp
yet we need to say it. So it is a ministry and a beautiful gift of God to us to be used in service,
Praise the Lord, Amen.

 

[wolfwint]

We know the Holy Spirit is our Teacher and the gift of tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit so, no one can explain it better than the Holy Spirit!

I have given answers in previous posts, and now, have no more answers for you. I wish you all the best!

I dont need an answer. I suppose you take man doctrine higher then Gods.
Why i should belive, something what is not taught in the bible?
The Holy Spirit would not teach a lie.
Ore against what is in Gods word throug him revealed.

 

[TheLearner]

Hello wolfwint and Budman,

Wouldn't it be foolish to say to God, "The gift You want to give me is not necessary?"

God knows what is necessary and He gives gifts according to His Will. Who are we to speak against Him?

Paul did not speak against the gift of tongues or the Giver of the gift, he never said the gift of tongues was not necessary.

Paul did say when in public it is better to speak a known language that can be understood but, he never said tongues was not necessary.

Again it is just testing if something really came from God or is just made up.

If you take time to study psychology of "In Group" vs "out group" you will understand why people make up fake tongues today.