Can We Eliminate the Divide Between Calvinism and Arminianism?

[Grandpa]

I don't know grandpa...
maybe YOU don't understand what the bible says....

You can believe what Romans 9 talks about to your heart's content.
However, as I've stated, ONLY the calvinist theology agrees with you....
No other biblical scholar agrees with you.

They aren't very good bible scholars if they don't even know what the bible says.

All you have to do is read Institutes of the Christian Religion and you will see it is ENTIRELY based on the bible.

Do you really think you or I know more than someone that has studied the bible for years and years, even up to 10,,,,and has received a doctorate and knows EVERYTHING about the bible?

Yes. I definitely don't think it is out of the question.

Why wouldn't someone who has come to Christ and has been given Wisdom and Knowledge of Christ by the Holy Spirit and studies the bible know more than someone who went to school to learn from people what other people think the bible says????

Are you going to state that you don't care what they think because you know more?
Please don't. It's like someone saying they know more than a doctor because they've cared for someone with a cold once in their life.

Calvinism hinges on FREE WILL.

You believe in compatible free will...
Do you understand what that is?
Can you explain it to us please?

And why you agree with it.
Thanks.

Why would I care about what people who are wrong think? They're allowed to be wrong. It doesn't hurt my feelings.

Like I said before. Calvinism DOESN'T hinge on free will. It hinges on the Sovereignty of God.

There is no reason to discuss the imagination of what people wish for. Or "free will" if you prefer that term. May as well discuss the implications fairy land has on the Kingdom of God.

I think that's the major reason why most people reject Calvinism. Apart from not knowing their bible. They are offended at what Calvinism says about their precious free will.

 

[GodsGrace101]

They aren't very good bible scholars if they don't even know what the bible says.

All you have to do is read Institutes of the Christian Religion and you will see it is ENTIRELY based on the bible.


Yes. I definitely don't think it is out of the question.

Why wouldn't someone who has come to Christ and has been given Wisdom and Knowledge of Christ by the Holy Spirit and studies the bible know more than someone who went to school to learn from people what other people think the bible says????


Why would I care about what people who are wrong think? They're allowed to be wrong. It doesn't hurt my feelings.

Like I said before. Calvinism DOESN'T hinge on free will. It hinges on the Sovereignty of God.

There is no reason to discuss the imagination of what people wish for. Or "free will" if you prefer that term. May as well discuss the implications fairy land has on the Kingdom of God.

I think that's the major reason why most people reject Calvinism. Apart from not knowing their bible. They are offended at what Calvinism says about their precious free will.

I have read the Institutes.
It's rather horrifying to tell you the truth.

I do want to say that I admire the intelligence of John Calvin and he's written some really good comments...some of the best. It's a shame he got the character of God all wrong.

So you say Calvinism hinges on the Sovereignty of God.
Every Christian believes God is sovereign....so how does it hinge on that?

Is God trying to trick us?
He already predestinated everything, right?
So He also predestined that we would be having this conversation right now.
So you're saying that God is having fun watching us debate whether or not He's a loving God?

Do you realize how unlike God this is?
God is love.
1 John 4:8

 

[Grandpa]

I have read the Institutes.
It's rather horrifying to tell you the truth.

I do want to say that I admire the intelligence of John Calvin and he's written some really good comments...some of the best. It's a shame he got the character of God all wrong.

So you say Calvinism hinges on the Sovereignty of God.
Every Christian believes God is sovereign....so how does it hinge on that?

Is God trying to trick us?
He already predestinated everything, right?
So He also predestined that we would be having this conversation right now.
So you're saying that God is having fun watching us debate whether or not He's a loving God?

Do you realize how unlike God this is?
God is love.
1 John 4:8

I realize that you think you understand God. But you obviously don't.

God elected the Hebrews but not the Egyptians.

God elected David but not Saul.

God elected Jacob but not Esau.


Was that not Love? It must have been since God is the One doing it.

So one vessel was made for honour and one for dishonor by the election and Sovereignty of God.


Is this horrifying to you? Its the bible.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I realize that you think you understand God. But you obviously don't.

God elected the Hebrews but not the Egyptians.

God elected David but not Saul.

God elected Jacob but not Esau.


Was that not Love? It must have been since God is the One doing it.

So one vessel was made for honour and one for dishonor by the election and Sovereignty of God.


Is this horrifying to you? Its the bible.

God elected the Hebrews....He CHOSE the Hebrews to reveal Himself.

God elected David? He didn't make such a good choice,,,did He?
On the other hand , he did unify Israel...

God did not elect Jacob....He just foreknew Esau would sell his inheritance.

No. I don't see love anywhere up there.
Here's love:

FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD
THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON
THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM
SHOULD NOT PERISH
BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.

(sorry for the caps,,,it was just easier)

 

[GodsGrace101]

I realize that you think you understand God. But you obviously don't.

God elected the Hebrews but not the Egyptians.

God elected David but not Saul.

God elected Jacob but not Esau.


Was that not Love? It must have been since God is the One doing it.

So one vessel was made for honour and one for dishonor by the election and Sovereignty of God.


Is this horrifying to you? Its the bible.

P.S.
Regarding your first sentence:

If someone understood God,,,,it would mean they also are God.
Do ants understand us?

 

[Grandpa]

P.S.
Regarding your first sentence:

If someone understood God,,,,it would mean they also are God.
Do ants understand us?

So you can't say that electing one and not electing another is not love.

Because you don't understand.

Its just not love TO YOU. But so far, God hasn't asked you how He should run things. But He has shown in the bible how He does it.

 

[GodsGrace101]

So you can't say that electing one and not electing another is not love.

Because you don't understand.

Its just not love TO YOU. But so far, God hasn't asked you how He should run things. But He has shown in the bible how He does it.

OK grandpa...you don't want to have a serious conversation and I'm not willing to just argue for the sake of arguing.

But yes....electing one and not electing another is a sign that love is not present.
Why didn't God just save everybody?
Because we're all doomed from birth and don't deserve it?
So, gee, we're so lucky God decided to at least save some since NOBODY deserves it.

It's OK. You're probably going to heaven and we'll meet up there and then we'll know who's right.
Do you think God might be a little upset that you put him in such a bad light?

He can't be sovereign AND good?

Good night.

 

[garee]

I do believe you have soteriology backwards....

John 3:16
States that whoever believes will be saved.

Not that one will be saved and then will believe.

It would seem from my perspective you have turned the one source of faith as it is written upside down. Therefore taking away the understanding of the Potter the one who is working to form Christ in a person..

Man is born with "no faith" by which hecould believe God. God must work in them giving doing the first work or power to believe previously having none not little.

Many miss the idea that God's faith is the source by which we can believe or have faith in respect to Him not seen. previously no power to believe no belief.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

He who believes not (has no faith) is already condememed . He who does believe will not be judged.

Acts 16:30-31
The jailer is told to believe in the Lord and he will be saved.
Not he will be saved and then believe in the Lord.

Beliving God is a work of God the v commandment coming from God is to believe previously having "no faith" .

Ephesians 2:8-9
We have been saved THROUGH faith....the faith comes first.
Not we have been saved and then receive faith.

The same hearing of faith we first heard in order to first receive the Spirit continues to work in their heart daily, all the days of a believers life.

What scripture says we are saved first (believe first)
and then receive faith?

Scripture informs us before we were saved we had "no faith". Not little none.

 

[Grandpa]

OK grandpa...you don't want to have a serious conversation and I'm not willing to just argue for the sake of arguing.

But yes....electing one and not electing another is a sign that love is not present.
Why didn't God just save everybody?
Because we're all doomed from birth and don't deserve it?
So, gee, we're so lucky God decided to at least save some since NOBODY deserves it.

It's OK. You're probably going to heaven and we'll meet up there and then we'll know who's right.
Do you think God might be a little upset that you put him in such a bad light?

He can't be sovereign AND good?

Good night.

That's why I said you think you understand God but you don't. You think you understand love but you don't.

And that is why we won't eliminate the divide between calvinism and arminianism.

Romans 9:18-24
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

[garee]

OK grandpa...you don't want to have a serious conversation and I'm not willing to just argue for the sake of arguing.

But yes....electing one and not electing another is a sign that love is not present.
Why didn't God just save everybody?
Because we're all doomed from birth and don't deserve it?
So, gee, we're so lucky God decided to at least save some since NOBODY deserves it.

It's OK. You're probably going to heaven and we'll meet up there and then we'll know who's right.
Do you think God might be a little upset that you put him in such a bad light?

He can't be sovereign AND good?

Good night.

Election is a sign of mercy . He defines what mercy is.Some will not rise to new life.

 

[Iconoclast]

I won's speak for Arminians (since I am not in that camp). But how can it be the same when Calvinists claim that Christ died only the the elect, whereas the Bible says that He died for the sins of the whole world? And that God predestines some for salvation and others for damnation, when the Bible says that God now commands all men everywhere to repent. These are vastly different Gospels.

You still do not understand the position so your comments are not going to help

 

[Nehemiah6]

You still do not understand the position so your comments are not going to help

No. I fully understand the position and it is all there in the Westminster Confession of Faith. I could quote chapter and verse.

 

[GodsGrace101]

No. I fully understand the position and it is all there in the Westminster Confession of Faith. I could quote chapter and verse.

Don't feel badly N....
According to
@Grandpa
@Iconoclast

neither of us can understand anything.
Maybe God made it incredibly difficult for those He chose to be lost eternally so that they could not understand.....

Yeah. That's the ticket.

 

[Iconoclast]

No. I fully understand the position and it is all there in the Westminster Confession of Faith. I could quote chapter and verse.

If you understood it you would not say God predestined people for hell. Could you show that teaching in the 1644?

 

[Nehemiah6]

If you understood it you would not say God predestined people for hell. Could you show that teaching in the 1644?

Absolutely. And that is 1647.

CHAPTER III
Of God's Eternal Decree

III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life, and others fore-ordained to everlasting death.

IV. These angels and men, thus predestinated and fore-ordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number is so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished...

VII. The rest of mankind God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of His own will, whereby He extendeth or withholdeth mercy, as He pleaseth, for the glory of His sovereign power over His creatures, to pass by; and to ordain them to dishonour and wrath, for their sin, to the praise of His glorious justice.

 

[preacher4truth]

I won's speak for Arminians (since I am not in that camp). But how can it be the same when Calvinists claim that Christ died only the the elect, whereas the Bible says that He died for the sins of the whole world? And that God predestines some for salvation and others for damnation, when the Bible says that God now commands all men everywhere to repent. These are vastly different Gospels.

You don't understand the passages you allude to. You never have. Anyhow...don't you believe Jesus saw who would believe in time, and decided to save them?

 

[preacher4truth]

If you understood it you would not say God predestined people for hell. Could you show that teaching in the 1644?

He can read it into the Bible, surely he can read it into the Confessions as well.

 

[Iconoclast]

He can read it into the Bible, surely he can read it into the Confessions as well.

That poster seems bitter against the truth of God. It will not be long before he denies essential truths....

 

[preacher4truth]

That poster seems bitter against the truth of God. It will not be long before he denies essential truths....

He already does deny them. In his attempt to get God off the hook he fights the biblical doctrines of predestination and election. He counts God as unjust for electing whom he wills to eternal salvation, so he created his own version of a god that makes him feel more snuggly. God has to fit what he thinks is fair, then he puts the carved image on a mantle and worships it.

 

[Iconoclast]

He already does deny them. In his attempt to get God off the hook he fights the biblical doctrines of predestination and election. He counts God as unjust for electing whom he wills to eternal salvation, so he created his own version of a god that makes him feel more snuggly. God has to fit what he thinks is fair, then he puts the carved image on a mantle and worships it.

That is so sad....I wonder if they are listening to Andy Stanley or Roger Olson? Many bad teachings that try and stand against the historic faith but cannot. Thanks for warning me of these pernicious errors so I will be ready to fend off such God-dishonoring views