Name It and Claim It
- Thread starter AllenW
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Well, if you believe in divine health but only can get 30 fold or 60 fold of that, instead of 100 fold, its still better than believing that "sickness is used by God to teach you lessons" right? 
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Well, if you believe in divine health but only can get 30 fold or 60 fold of that, instead of 100 fold, its still better than believing that "sickness is used by God to teach you lessons" right?
We Also Should Follow Jesus’ Example
12 We have all these great people around us as examples. Their lives tell us what faith means. So we, too, should run the race that is before us and never quit. We should remove from our lives anything that would slow us down and the sin that so often makes us fall. 2 We must never stop looking to Jesus. He is the leader of our faith, and he is the one who makes our faith complete. He suffered death on a cross. But he accepted the shame of the cross as if it were nothing because of the joy he could see waiting for him. And now he is sitting at the right side of God’s throne. 3 Think about Jesus. He patiently endured the angry insults that sinful people were shouting at him. Think about him so that you won’t get discouraged and stop trying.
God Is Like a Father
4 You are struggling against sin, but you have not had to give up your life for the cause. 5 You are children of God, and he speaks words of comfort to you. You have forgotten these words:
“My child, don’t think the Lord’s discipline is worth nothing,
and don’t stop trying when he corrects you.
6 The Lord disciplines everyone he loves;
he punishes everyone he accepts as a child.”
7 So accept sufferings like a father’s discipline. God does these things to you like a father correcting his children. You know that all children are disciplined by their fathers. 8 So, if you never receive the discipline that every child must have, you are not true children and don’t really belong to God. 9 We have all had fathers here on earth who corrected us with discipline. And we respected them. So it is even more important that we accept discipline from the Father of our spirits. If we do this, we will have life. 10 Our fathers on earth disciplined us for a short time in the way they thought was best. But God disciplines us to help us so that we can be holy like him. 11 We don’t enjoy discipline when we get it. It is painful. But later, after we have learned our lesson from it, we will enjoy the peace that comes from doing what is right.
Be Careful How You Live
12 You have become weak, so make yourselves strong again. 13 Live in the right way so that you will be saved and your weakness will not cause you to be lost.
14 Try to live in peace with everyone. And try to keep your lives free from sin. Anyone whose life is not holy will never see the Lord. 15 Be careful that no one fails to get God’s grace. Be careful that no one loses their faith and becomes like a bitter weed growing among you. Someone like that can ruin your whole group. 16 Be careful that no one commits sexual sin. And be careful that no one is like Esau and never thinks about God. As the oldest son, Esau would have inherited everything from his father. But he sold all that for a single meal. 17 You remember that after Esau did this, he wanted to get his father’s blessing. He wanted that blessing so much that he cried. But his father refused to give him the blessing, because Esau could find no way to change what he had done.
18 You have not come to a place that can be seen and touched, like the mountain the people of Israel saw, which was burning with fire and covered with darkness, gloom, and storms. 19 There is no sound of a trumpet or a voice speaking words like those they heard. When they heard the voice, they begged never to hear another word. 20 They did not want to hear the command: “If anything, even an animal, touches the mountain, it must be killed with stones.”[a] 21 What they saw was so terrible that Moses said, “I am shaking with fear.”[c]
22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem.[d] You have come to a place where thousands of angels have gathered to celebrate. 23 You have come to the meeting of God’s firstborn[e] children. Their names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all people. And you have come to the spirits of good people who have been made perfect. 24 You have come to Jesus—the one who brought the new agreement from God to his people. You have come to the sprinkled blood[f] that tells us about better things than the blood of Abel.
25 Be careful and don’t refuse to listen when God speaks. Those people refused to listen to him when he warned them on earth. And they did not escape. Now God is speaking from heaven. So now it will be worse for those who refuse to listen to him. 26 When he spoke before, his voice shook the earth. But now he has promised, “Once again I will shake the earth, but I will also shake heaven.”[g] 27 The words “once again” clearly show us that everything that was created will be destroyed—that is, the things that can be shaken. And only what cannot be shaken will remain.
28 So we should be thankful because we have a kingdom that cannot be shaken. And because we are thankful, we should worship God in a way that will please him. We should do this with respect and fear, 29 because our God is like a fire that can destroy us.
-
1
- Show all
Let me rephrase the previous statement then, to make it clearer, its still better than believing that "God did not or will not heal me because he wants to teach me lessons" right?
A Special Blessing in Paul’s Life
12 There is more that I have to say about myself. It won’t help, but I will talk now about visions and revelations from the Lord. 2 I know a man[a] in Christ who was taken up to the third heaven. This happened 14 years ago. I don’t know if the man was in his body or out of his body, but God knows. 3-4 And I know that this man was taken up to paradise. I don’t know if he was in his body or away from his body, but he heard things that he is not able to explain. He heard things that no one is allowed to tell. 5 I will boast about a man like that, but I will not boast about myself. I will boast only about my weaknesses.
6 But if I wanted to say more about myself, I would not be a fool, because I would be telling the truth. But I won’t say any more, because I don’t want people to think more of me than what they see me do or hear me say.
7 But I must not be too proud of the wonderful things that were shown to me. So a painful problem was given to me—an angel from Satan, sent to make me suffer, so that I would not think that I am better than anyone else. 8 I begged the Lord three times to take this problem away from me. 9 But the Lord said, “My grace is all you need. Only when you are weak can everything be done completely by my power.” So I will gladly boast about my weaknesses. Then Christ’s power can stay in me. 10 Yes, I am glad to have weaknesses if they are for Christ. I am glad to be insulted and have hard times. I am glad when I am persecuted and have problems, because it is when I am weak that I am really strong.
-
1
- Show all
Against Heresies (Book V, Chapter 3)
Please help support the mission of New Advent and get the full contents of this website as an instant download. Includes the Catholic Encyclopedia, Church Fathers, Summa, Bible and more — all for only $19.99...
The power and glory of God shine forth in the weakness of human flesh, as He will render our body a participator of the resurrection and of immortality, although He has formed it from the dust of the earth; He will also bestow upon it the enjoyment of immortality, just as He grants it this short life in common with the soul.
1. The Apostle Paul has, moreover, in the most lucid manner, pointed out that man has been delivered over to his own infirmity, lest, being uplifted, he might fall away from the truth. Thus he says in the second [Epistle] to the Corinthians: And lest I should be lifted up by the sublimity of the revelations, there was given unto me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me. And upon this I besought the Lord three times, that it might depart from me. But he said to me, My grace is sufficient for you; for strength is made perfect in weakness. Gladly therefore shall I rather glory in infirmities, that the power of Christ may dwell in me. 2 Corinthians 12:7-9 What, therefore? (as some may exclaim
did the Lord wish, in that case, that His apostles should thus undergo buffeting, and that he should endure such infirmity? Even so it was; the word says it. For strength is made perfect in weakness, rendering him a better man who by means of his infirmity becomes acquainted with the power of God. For how could a man have learned that he is himself an infirm being, and mortal by nature, but that God is immortal and powerful, unless he had learned by experience what is in both? For there is nothing evil in learning one's infirmities by endurance; yea, rather, it has even the beneficial effect of preventing him from forming an undue opinion of his own nature (non aberrare in natura sua). But the being lifted up against God, and taking His glory to one's self, rendering man ungrateful, has brought much evil upon him. [And thus, I say, man must learn both things by experience], that he may not be destitute of truth and love either towards himself or his Creator. But the experience of both confers upon him the true knowledge as to God and man, and increases his love towards God. Now, where there exists an increase of love, there a greater glory is wrought out by the power of God for those who love Him.2. Those men, therefore, set aside the power of God, and do not consider what the word declares, when they dwell upon the infirmity of the flesh, but do not take into consideration the power of Him who raises it up from the dead. For if He does not vivify what is mortal, and does not bring back the corruptible to incorruption, He is not a God of power. But that He is powerful in all these respects, we ought to perceive from our origin, inasmuch as God, taking dust from the earth, formed man. And surely it is much more difficult and incredible, from non-existent bones, and nerves, and veins, and the rest of man's organization, to bring it about that all this should be, and to make man an animated and rational creature, than to reintegrate again that which had been created and then afterwards decomposed into earth (for the reasons already mentioned), having thus passed into those [elements] from which man, who had no previous existence, was formed. For He who in the beginning caused him to have being who as yet was not, just when He pleased, shall much more reinstate again those who had a former existence, when it is His will [that they should inherit] the life granted by Him. And that flesh shall also be found fit for and capable of receiving the power of God, which at the beginning received the skilful touches of God; so that one part became the eye for seeing; another, the ear for hearing; another, the hand for feeling and working; another, the sinews stretched out everywhere, and holding the limbs together; another, arteries and veins, passages for the blood and the air; another, the various internal organs; another, the blood, which is the bond of union between soul and body. But why go [on in this strain]? Numbers would fail to express the multiplicity of parts in the human frame, which was made in no other way than by the great wisdom of God. But those things which partake of the skill and wisdom of God, do also partake of His power. http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103503.htm
"
7
It seems probable that when Paul was blinded on the Damascus road and subsequently healed at the hands of Ananias, the healing was partial and his eyes continued to give him ongoing trouble. This is strongly hinted at in the immediate context of Gal 4:13; in v 15, Paul says that had it been possible, the Galatians would have plucked out their own eyes and given them to him. But why would they have had such an inclination unless he had difficulty with his eyes?
A further hint may be found in Gal 6:11, where (on the most probable interpretation) Paul notes the large size of the letters with which he is writing the closing section of the letter." https://hermeneutics.stackexchange....ans-413-what-was-pauls-infirmity-of-the-flesh
STRONGS NT 769: ἀσθένεια
ἀσθένεια, ἀσθενείας, ἡ (ἀσθενής) (from Herodotus down), want of strength, weakness, infirmity;
a. of Body; α. its native weakness and frailty: 1 Corinthians 15:43; 2 Corinthians 13:4. β. feebleness of health; sickness: John 5:5; John 11:4; Luke 13:11, 12; Galatians 4:13 (ἀσθένεια τῆς σαρκός); Hebrews 11:34; in plural: Matthew 8:17; Luke 5:15; Luke 8:2; Acts 28:9; 1 Timothy 5:23.
b. of Soul; want of the strength and capacity requisite α. to understand a thing: Romans 6:19 (where ἀσθένειαν τῆς σαρκός denotes the weakness of human nature). β. to do things great and glorious, as want of human wisdom, of skill in speaking, in the management of men: 1 Corinthians 2:3. γ. to restrain corrupt desires; proclivity to sin: Hebrews 5:2; Hebrews 7:28; plural the various kinds of this proclivity, Hebrews 4:15. δ. to bear trials and troubles: Romans 8:26 (where read τῇ ἀσθένεια for Rec. ταῖς ἀσθενείαις); 2 Corinthians 11:30; 2 Corinthians 12:9; plural the mental (?) states in which this weakness manifests itself: 2 Corinthians 12:5, 9f.
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
disease, infirmity, sickness, weakness.
From asthenes; feebleness (of mind or body); by implication, malady; morally, frailty -- disease, infirmity, sickness, weakness.
ἀσθένεια, ἀσθενείας, ἡ (ἀσθενής) (from Herodotus down), want of strength, weakness, infirmity;
a. of Body; α. its native weakness and frailty: 1 Corinthians 15:43; 2 Corinthians 13:4. β. feebleness of health; sickness: John 5:5; John 11:4; Luke 13:11, 12; Galatians 4:13 (ἀσθένεια τῆς σαρκός); Hebrews 11:34; in plural: Matthew 8:17; Luke 5:15; Luke 8:2; Acts 28:9; 1 Timothy 5:23.
b. of Soul; want of the strength and capacity requisite α. to understand a thing: Romans 6:19 (where ἀσθένειαν τῆς σαρκός denotes the weakness of human nature). β. to do things great and glorious, as want of human wisdom, of skill in speaking, in the management of men: 1 Corinthians 2:3. γ. to restrain corrupt desires; proclivity to sin: Hebrews 5:2; Hebrews 7:28; plural the various kinds of this proclivity, Hebrews 4:15. δ. to bear trials and troubles: Romans 8:26 (where read τῇ ἀσθένεια for Rec. ταῖς ἀσθενείαις); 2 Corinthians 11:30; 2 Corinthians 12:9; plural the mental (?) states in which this weakness manifests itself: 2 Corinthians 12:5, 9f.
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
disease, infirmity, sickness, weakness.
From asthenes; feebleness (of mind or body); by implication, malady; morally, frailty -- disease, infirmity, sickness, weakness.
Looks like He likes to avoid the topic by attacking others. I know I already answered and I can see you have too.
I am not going to bother answering his false charges.
It is an indication that one's false beliefs have been exposed when they start attacking others and avoiding the main topic of the the thread.
I am not going to bother answering his false charges.
It is an indication that one's false beliefs have been exposed when they start attacking others and avoiding the main topic of the the thread.
-
2
- Show all
One thing that really bothers me is when a Christian comes up to me and says, "you haven't been healed because you lack faith".
Boy, does that get me.
After they say it they put a pert, smug smile on their face because they feel no pain and you do.
You see, we have to claim our health and wealth and everything else because God wants us to have it all in this lifetime.
There are so many holes in this belief that I no longer know where to begin.
All I can say is that God is not a field of science for us to master.
Every time we think we know it all, we find that we really don't know it all.
I was once on the other side of this.
I saw too many preachers get rich and too many people stay sick.
Today we have more name it and claim it preachers (churches by many different names) than we ever had before.
Is there really a "name it and claim it" movement anywhere that is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
The original post is above.
Boy, does that get me.
After they say it they put a pert, smug smile on their face because they feel no pain and you do.
You see, we have to claim our health and wealth and everything else because God wants us to have it all in this lifetime.
There are so many holes in this belief that I no longer know where to begin.
All I can say is that God is not a field of science for us to master.
Every time we think we know it all, we find that we really don't know it all.
I was once on the other side of this.
I saw too many preachers get rich and too many people stay sick.
Today we have more name it and claim it preachers (churches by many different names) than we ever had before.
Is there really a "name it and claim it" movement anywhere that is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
The original post is above.
-
2
- Show all
I don't know about your English speaking culture but in mine, there is a difference between accepting a view and understanding the same view.
Just because I choose not to accept your view does not mean I have to misunderstand it. We can agree to disagree but to misunderstand someone's view is another matter altogether.
Just because I choose not to accept your view does not mean I have to misunderstand it. We can agree to disagree but to misunderstand someone's view is another matter altogether.
There is a problem here.
Peters healing of the man begging at the gate was unusual.
Paul and his healing as he preached later on again was unusual.
The healing miracles were so unusual by the next century the church leaders
do not refer to it as a ministry or special thing.
It is only in the 1900 do we start to see again the idea of healing ministries,
and demonstrations of Gods grace to evangelise.
That is a serious problem if one is claiming continuity of Gods working.
It is simply not there so the invention of this theology is false teaching.
God has always healed specially, but that is all.
God bless you
Peters healing of the man begging at the gate was unusual.
Paul and his healing as he preached later on again was unusual.
The healing miracles were so unusual by the next century the church leaders
do not refer to it as a ministry or special thing.
It is only in the 1900 do we start to see again the idea of healing ministries,
and demonstrations of Gods grace to evangelise.
That is a serious problem if one is claiming continuity of Gods working.
It is simply not there so the invention of this theology is false teaching.
God has always healed specially, but that is all.
God bless you
-
1
- Show all
I was not assuming, that was why I asked you.
Before I bring in the context of thorn in the OT, can you accept that thorn in the flesh need not have to mean a physical sickness? I am not asking you to believe that, just want to know whether you can accept that Paul was not necessarily talking about sickness.
As an example, if I were to write, "You are such a pain in my neck", do I literally mean you are afflicting my neck?
Before I bring in the context of thorn in the OT, can you accept that thorn in the flesh need not have to mean a physical sickness? I am not asking you to believe that, just want to know whether you can accept that Paul was not necessarily talking about sickness.
As an example, if I were to write, "You are such a pain in my neck", do I literally mean you are afflicting my neck?