Not By Works
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Thanks for the warning! 
I don't use the net for learning....
But what the site STATES is all true and accepted by biblical scholars.
It's very important to know that these three chapters in Romans are speaking about God's promises to the Jews and NOT about personal salvation.
Only calvinists, of course, do not accept this.
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Amen! As the text you quoted testifies! However!
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:26,27
What truth?
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
(Heb 10:14-16 KJV)
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:26,27
What truth?
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
(Heb 10:14-16 KJV)
WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM (John 3:15,16,18) *This is not limited to the Jews.
Romans 9:30 - What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. Jews only huh?
Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved." Jews only huh?
Romans 11:25 - For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; 27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins." 28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience. Jews only huh?
*Does Romans 5:15-18; 6:23; 8:30 and Ephesians 2:8 also only apply to Jews? NO.
I'm not a 5 point Calvinist and I already understand about Romans.
Romans 9:30 - What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. Jews only huh?
Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved." Jews only huh?
Romans 11:25 - For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; 27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins." 28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience. Jews only huh?
*Does Romans 5:15-18; 6:23; 8:30 and Ephesians 2:8 also only apply to Jews? NO.
I'm not a 5 point Calvinist and I already understand about Romans.
Read those articles again.
It's not that it's ABOUT the Jews or to the Jews.
It's about God's promises to them.
They refused Jesus as Messiah.
Did God fail?
This is more what it's about.
ONLY CALVINISTS do not accept all those links I posted.
But, take it or leave it.
We like to stay in our comfort zone, don't we?
I like to move out of it and learn.
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On this type of language, I have noticed different groups use the same words to mean slightly
different things and then dispute with others what they are saying.
So Christ within me stirs me to love an elderly widow. I reach out and support them.
Another would say, "no you were trying to prove you were good, so you did an act for reward.
I avoid such doubt and do not do the act unless the "Spirit" tells me or else it is just the flesh."
It turns out if you have a cold heart, and the Lord has not warmed you and you have not opened
up to the cross, then a cold heart will only reach out to prove something, because the reaching out
would never be a reflection of love that is not there.
So often the language and theology or interpretation is just reflecting the reality within, and not
actually real theology without. And so the arguments that result are not logical or truth, but
derived from different heart conditions and experiences. And I say this for His people, because those
with cold hearts have no choice, they are what they are.
I have learnt more from exploring this questions than anywhere else, because the vehmence of some
is eye opening. When you understand you can wrap a hard heart in the gospel, and rip people apart
while appearing to speak His word, things become a lot clearer, and the attacks irrelevant.
God bless you.
different things and then dispute with others what they are saying.
So Christ within me stirs me to love an elderly widow. I reach out and support them.
Another would say, "no you were trying to prove you were good, so you did an act for reward.
I avoid such doubt and do not do the act unless the "Spirit" tells me or else it is just the flesh."
It turns out if you have a cold heart, and the Lord has not warmed you and you have not opened
up to the cross, then a cold heart will only reach out to prove something, because the reaching out
would never be a reflection of love that is not there.
So often the language and theology or interpretation is just reflecting the reality within, and not
actually real theology without. And so the arguments that result are not logical or truth, but
derived from different heart conditions and experiences. And I say this for His people, because those
with cold hearts have no choice, they are what they are.
I have learnt more from exploring this questions than anywhere else, because the vehmence of some
is eye opening. When you understand you can wrap a hard heart in the gospel, and rip people apart
while appearing to speak His word, things become a lot clearer, and the attacks irrelevant.
God bless you.
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sorry, could not help my self
but dose any one not ask the calvinist, he make big words like omnipresent ,omnipotent,omniscience, tulp, etc
yet could not understand do not kill, lol
yet god is every ware . you got to blind eye to a dictionary. lol
no offence intended, just things the rhema point out etc
but dose any one not ask the calvinist, he make big words like omnipresent ,omnipotent,omniscience, tulp, etc
yet could not understand do not kill, lol
yet god is every ware . you got to blind eye to a dictionary. lol
no offence intended, just things the rhema point out etc
But what we think is true at times is subjective. What is True is not.
Some think they are saved and are not. A mere "intellectual" assent to the Holy Writ and a profession of it; if not from the Spirit through our heart, is nothing but a lie.
Many think they are of the Spirit and are not.
He is LOVE and as HE is so are we in this World.
Some think they are saved and are not. A mere "intellectual" assent to the Holy Writ and a profession of it; if not from the Spirit through our heart, is nothing but a lie.
Many think they are of the Spirit and are not.
He is LOVE and as HE is so are we in this World.
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Where did the word "human" come from? God said, "Let us make man in our image." Is God human?
God created man with three parts, Body, Soul and Spirit. We were designed to be in a relationship with God - connected to Him by body, soul and spirit.
Human and humanity sounds like a fallen state to me - mortal and corrupt.
God said, "Let us make man in our image." Is God human?God created man with three parts, Body, Soul and Spirit. We were designed to be in a relationship with God - connected to Him by body, soul and spirit.
Human and humanity sounds like a fallen state to me - mortal and corrupt.
I don't understand your point...
It sounds like you're saying God is human and that's the only way we could be human since we're made in HIS image!
I know this is not what you mean.
Adam was human even before the fall...
We're just a different being than God is.
When God said "let us make man in our image" He gave man some of His attributes.
He gave us the ability to love,
The ability to be creative,
The ability to have a family, (like God also has a family)
He gave us the ability to be social and to interact with others....
This is what is meant by making us like Him.
After the fall man did become mortal and the relationship with God was corrupted....
also the relationship with other persons,,,with nature,,,and with himself.
Man acquired the sin nature and tends toward sin.
This is my understanding.
rhema being a word
Rhema (ῥῆμα in Greek) literally means an "utterance" or "thing said" in Greek. It is a word that signifies the action of utterance. In philosophy, it was used by both Plato and Aristotle to refer to propositions or sentences.
god speaking directly to you,
if you dont have the holy spirit, then all you will have is the written word, ie ( the bible only become a history book of god and the people he work with, )etc
if you have the holy spirit paul is telling you to step up to
1 Corinthians 12 New International Version (NIV)
Concerning Spiritual Gifts
and learn to hear or work toward a spiritual gift etc
Rhema (ῥῆμα in Greek) literally means an "utterance" or "thing said" in Greek. It is a word that signifies the action of utterance. In philosophy, it was used by both Plato and Aristotle to refer to propositions or sentences.
god speaking directly to you,
if you dont have the holy spirit, then all you will have is the written word, ie ( the bible only become a history book of god and the people he work with, )etc
if you have the holy spirit paul is telling you to step up to
1 Corinthians 12 New International Version (NIV)
Concerning Spiritual Gifts
and learn to hear or work toward a spiritual gift etc
??
What does that have to do with anything?
Jesus will be our judge...
Other humans cannot judge us to heaven or hell....only God can.
So if you judge another's soul....you are trying to take over God's job...
I'm pretty sure we cannot do that.
James 4:11-12
11 Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. 12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?
Romans 2:1-3
1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?
What does that have to do with anything?
Jesus will be our judge...
Other humans cannot judge us to heaven or hell....only God can.
So if you judge another's soul....you are trying to take over God's job...
I'm pretty sure we cannot do that.
James 4:11-12
11 Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. 12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?
Romans 2:1-3
1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?
Did faith before evidence not require some convincing. Did it not require a level of acceptance on our part. Is believing what seems impossible require some level of work on our part? Has any of us never questioned or doubted what we were taught? Is not the American version of Sant Clause or the Easter Bunny a lie? We figured it out for ourselves. Why do we believe in Jesus? We figured out it's true. That took work in our heads and hearts.
I can feel the wind and see the leaves and branches move so I believe that air exists. God to the ungodly is much less tangible. It didn't require work with our hands or speech but it did in our hearts and minds head. Since we were saved the work is finished. It is not losable because the work to get it was finished. Saved by Grace would no be saved it would be earned otherwise.
That's enough dialectics rom me for today.
I can feel the wind and see the leaves and branches move so I believe that air exists. God to the ungodly is much less tangible. It didn't require work with our hands or speech but it did in our hearts and minds head. Since we were saved the work is finished. It is not losable because the work to get it was finished. Saved by Grace would no be saved it would be earned otherwise.
That's enough dialectics rom me for today.
However that way is,,,,I think we're just to be thankful that we know God and pray for those who do not.
Jesus knew that not everyone would accept Him....this is why the Way is Narrow....not many find it.
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LOL
I said that the two sentences are making the same statement...
and if you don't think so,,,,,to explain HOW they are different....since they are NOT.
When I ask you to explain something it's to find out what YOU think about it.
I don't come here to learn from anyone here....I've learned from good sources.
However, one could always learn something new....but this is not why I ask.
So now maybe you understand and will keep this in mind.
And James is talking about FAITH....he was with Jesus throughout His ministry and understands what FAITH is.
James said FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.
NO WORKS.......NO FAITH.
I said that the two sentences are making the same statement...
and if you don't think so,,,,,to explain HOW they are different....since they are NOT.
When I ask you to explain something it's to find out what YOU think about it.
I don't come here to learn from anyone here....I've learned from good sources.
However, one could always learn something new....but this is not why I ask.
So now maybe you understand and will keep this in mind.
And James is talking about FAITH....he was with Jesus throughout His ministry and understands what FAITH is.
James said FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.
NO WORKS.......NO FAITH.
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I'm not sure what you mean by the above....
What I was saying is that the theology of calvinism, or reformed, believes that Romans 9, 10 and 11 is speaking about individual persons and they use these verses to show how God has mercy on whom He will have Mercy, how He "chose" Jacob over Esau even though Esau was the firs-born, and how the potter could make the clay vessel however he desires to and the clay vessel cannot complain.
This is NOT what Romand 9, 10 and 11 is speaking about.
It's speaking about the history between God and the Jews, from Abraham on...
It's speaking about corporate salvation and not individual salvation.
If you read the links I posted,,,,you'll learn what scholars say those chapters mean....
no need to listen to me! I'm not a scholar. But I do like to learn all I can.
What I was saying is that the theology of calvinism, or reformed, believes that Romans 9, 10 and 11 is speaking about individual persons and they use these verses to show how God has mercy on whom He will have Mercy, how He "chose" Jacob over Esau even though Esau was the firs-born, and how the potter could make the clay vessel however he desires to and the clay vessel cannot complain.
This is NOT what Romand 9, 10 and 11 is speaking about.
It's speaking about the history between God and the Jews, from Abraham on...
It's speaking about corporate salvation and not individual salvation.
If you read the links I posted,,,,you'll learn what scholars say those chapters mean....
no need to listen to me! I'm not a scholar. But I do like to learn all I can.
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I have read what you have written.
“If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15
If you worship other gods, is that loving God or hating God?
- Loving God
- Hating God
If I murder my neighbor, is that loving my neighbor or hating them?
- Loving my neighbor
- Hating my neighbor
If I steal from my brother is that loving him?
- Loving my brother
- Hating my brother
JPT
