Can people be a Christian and a Karaite Jew simultaneously?

[Blik]

No, we're on a whole different plane. If the OP believes what I posted Karaite Jews believe. Not even in the same ball park. It seems somehow the OP is trying to mix that cult with some form of Christianity,therefore the confusion. Now I know where he is coming from and why he is arguing as he does.

Now God's chosen people are cults? Why not listen to scripture? Have you even read Romans?

Your use of the term "mixing up" in order to say you believe in doing away with any scripture you can judge as old just doesn't fly. By refusing to learn from scripture as we are told to do you are truly mixing up the messages the Lord gives us.

 

[Grandpa]

I think you are using these wonderful verses to try to judge me as one who teaches the law without understanding, and to say that it is foolish to read the law as God gives it to us. I can just feel you shaking a judging finger ate me. Despite your judging, I love the 119th Psalm. Despite your judging finger I thoroughly believe in living with Christ and repenting. What is it you call me? A legalist?

Your way of interpreting the Lord has resulted in churches whose members never even consider living a life for Christ, they believe only in accepting all sin. Because Christ forgives us of any sin, they say all sin is acceptable. So our churches are weak. They are not a leavening element as they should be. God says that if they won't take Christ seriously and turn from sin through Him, then God won't hear them.

Some of your posts seem like they almost come close to brushing the truth. This one wasn't one of them.

You have it completely backwards.

The more people think they need to work at the law the less they Rest in Christ. The less a person Rests in Christ the further they get from Righteousness. The more a person rests in Christ the closer they are to Righteousness.

Our churches are weak because they don't understand this. Or if they do they purposely forget and push the laws they think are most beneficial upon their congregation.

I think they just don't understand. Just like most legalists.

 

[kaylagrl]

Now God's chosen people are cults? Why not listen to scripture? Have you even read Romans?

Your use of the term "mixing up" in order to say you believe in doing away with any scripture you can judge as old just doesn't fly. By refusing to learn from scripture as we are told to do you are truly mixing up the messages the Lord gives us.

No,the chosen people aren't a cult, but your form of belief seems to be. I support the Jews and Israel,more so than most. But your belief system doesn't even agree with Christians.

I said nothing about doing away with Scripture,that's a lie. You're so confused you don't know which end is up. I'm never going to agree with man made religion as Kariate's do.

 

[Blik]

Some of your posts seem like they almost come close to brushing the truth. This one wasn't one of them.

You have it completely backwards.

The more people think they need to work at the law the less they Rest in Christ. The less a person Rests in Christ the further they get from Righteousness. The more a person rests in Christ the closer they are to Righteousness.

Our churches are weak because they don't understand this. Or if they do they purposely forget and push the laws they think are most beneficial upon their congregation.

I think they just don't understand. Just like most legalists.

If we go to God and to scripture, you have your pride in your great understanding backwards. God says obey, you say just rest in Christ. Don't obey, let Christ do the obeying. I'm sorry, Christ asks you to join Him.

You say just stand back, do nothing but say "I believe" "I understand". Those words, as James told you, mean nothing at all with your idea of a do nothing religion.

 

[Blik]

No,the chosen people aren't a cult, but your form of belief seems to be. I support the Jews and Israel,more so than most. But your belief system doesn't even agree with Christians.

I said nothing about doing away with Scripture,that's a lie. You're so confused you don't know which end is up. I'm never going to agree with man made religion as Kariate's do.

If you don't believe Jews are a cult then don't say so. If you aren't doing away with scripture then don't go on about how you must not use scripture passages, don't mix them into scripture.

I use scripture for my religion, and as I have pointed out to you, you aren't using scripture. You are picking and choosing verses and making them fit into a scheme of your own choosing. I believe in all scripture, you don't. We disagree, that is just that.

The Kariate I am speaking of believe in scripture without believing in the oral traditions. They do not believe in Christ as the Messiah. I am asking if you think they can keep their belief in all scripture if they accept Christ. And it is evident, you do not believe in all scripture at all, you are a Christian who has wiped out all that led to Christianity. 'The creation, the 4,000 years before Christ, all of it means nothing to you, it is as if the world started with Christ as the only true God, as if Christ had no Father.

 

[kaylagrl]

If you don't believe Jews are a cult then don't say so. If you aren't doing away with scripture then don't go on about how you must not use scripture passages, don't mix them into scripture.

I use scripture for my religion, and as I have pointed out to you, you aren't using scripture. You are picking and choosing verses and making them fit into a scheme of your own choosing. I believe in all scripture, you don't. We disagree, that is just that.

The Kariate I am speaking of believe in scripture without believing in the oral traditions. They do not believe in Christ as the Messiah. I am asking if you think they can keep their belief in all scripture if they accept Christ. And it is evident, you do not believe in all scripture at all, you are a Christian who has wiped out all that led to Christianity. 'The creation, the 4,000 years before Christ, all of it means nothing to you, it is as if the world started with Christ as the only true God, as if Christ had no Father.

If you don't believe Jews are a cult then don't say so.

READ!!! Read what I said!! I said Kariates seem to be a cult. By what I read they believe and posted,that is a cult. Are all Jews Kariates? No! Only a small sect. Never said Jews are a cult!! Do not put words in my mouth.

If you aren't doing away with scripture then don't go on about how you must not use scripture passages, don't mix them into scripture.

Never said that either. So far you're two for two.

And it is evident, you do not believe in all scripture at all, you are a Christian who has wiped out all that led to Christianity.

There's the three fer. Another sentence full of things I never said. I don't know if you don't understand English well or have a problem with reading comprehension. And that's an honest observation,not sarcasm.

'

The creation, the 4,000 years before Christ, all of it means nothing to you, it is as if the world started with Christ as the only true God, as if Christ had no Father.

No,no and no. You can't find anything you said in any post I wrote. I don't believe any of that,never said such a thing. I think English is either not your first language or you are unable to understand what is written down.

 

[Blik]

No,no and no. You can't find anything you said in any post I wrote. I don't believe any of that,never said such a thing. I think English is either not your first language or you are unable to understand what is written down.

These are copies of your posts that I have tried to clear up. If I misunderstand I am sorry. It is true that you have posted faith in Christ that I agree with wholeheartedly, but have been so alarmed at posts that take away from the power and truth in the OT that I respond more to that than to your wonderful faith in Christ, and I am sorry, will try to do better.

"OT law is not the same in the NT.
"I said we are not under the OT covenant law. Jesus being God has nothing to do with the subject of the Law.
Christ was foreshadowed in the OT, that still has nothing to do with the law.
our friend seemed to have re-written the Bible to suit your own false religion
The OT law has nothing to do with the NT. Christ is the sacrifice. You are You misunderstand and are twisting the two systems, you are simply wrong.trying to merge the two,
You are twisting Scripture and mixing OT and NT.
we don't follow the OT laws"

 

[kaylagrl]

These are copies of your posts that I have tried to clear up. If I misunderstand I am sorry. It is true that you have posted faith in Christ that I agree with wholeheartedly, but have been so alarmed at posts that take away from the power and truth in the OT that I respond more to that than to your wonderful faith in Christ, and I am sorry, will try to do better.

"OT law is not the same in the NT.
"I said we are not under the OT covenant law. Jesus being God has nothing to do with the subject of the Law.
Christ was foreshadowed in the OT, that still has nothing to do with the law.
our friend seemed to have re-written the Bible to suit your own false religion
The OT law has nothing to do with the NT. Christ is the sacrifice. You are You misunderstand and are twisting the two systems, you are simply wrong.trying to merge the two,
You are twisting Scripture and mixing OT and NT.
we don't follow the OT laws"

Ok brother let's start again. Firstly I believe salvation is for the Jew first then the Gentiles. I believe the Jews are still today God's chosen people. I believe Israel still belongs to the Jews. I do not believe the church has replaced the Jews and the promises made to the Jews are now for the Christians. I believe God is not done with the Jewish people. I believe America should support Israel and I believe God has His hand covering the Jews. To curse the Jews is to be cursed and to bless them is to be blessed. So I wanted you to understand my beliefs concerning the Jewish people. I expect people may argue this but this is what I see according to the Bible.

When I speak of OT law I am speaking of the sacrificial laws where animal blood was used to cover sin and the priest spoke to God for the people. Another poster here went deeper into it. But my point from the first is not that the OT is useless but that Jesus fulfilled the law when He died. I posted Scripture to show that was true. So now Jesus blood takes away our sin,not just covers,He takes away our sin. We don't need animal blood,we don't need a priest. The OT law is fulfilled in Christ. This is the point I have trying to make all along. I don't know that we agree yet. But perhaps we may.

 

[NayborBear]

If you don't believe Jews are a cult then don't say so. If you aren't doing away with scripture then don't go on about how you must not use scripture passages, don't mix them into scripture.

I use scripture for my religion, and as I have pointed out to you, you aren't using scripture. You are picking and choosing verses and making them fit into a scheme of your own choosing. I believe in all scripture, you don't. We disagree, that is just that.

The Kariate I am speaking of believe in scripture without believing in the oral traditions. They do not believe in Christ as the Messiah. I am asking if you think they can keep their belief in all scripture if they accept Christ. And it is evident, you do not believe in all scripture at all, you are a Christian who has wiped out all that led to Christianity. 'The creation, the 4,000 years before Christ, all of it means nothing to you, it is as if the world started with Christ as the only true God, as if Christ had no Father.

In trying to answer the OP, and not impose myself (too much ), in this "barn burner" of a discussion you got goin' on.

With Christ, and God the Father? ALL things, are possible! So, in that regard? Yeah! They sure could!
But, by definition of not believing Christ as the Messiah? What would they accept Christ as? I believe that most "Jews" believe Jesus came. Yet, they don't recognize/accept Jesus as Messiah.
Seeings how, by definition Kariate's are only beholden to the Torah, or the first 5 books of our Bible?
Would their accepting of Christ, then open up the rest of the Bible to 'em? Including the N.T.?

And, as Jesus referred to His Disciples like sending "sheep out in the midst of wolves?" Would they then go out, and convert those who would be converted? And, kill those wolves that refused?

 

[Blik]

Ok brother let's start again. Firstly I believe salvation is for the Jew first then the Gentiles. I believe the Jews are still today God's chosen people. I believe Israel still belongs to the Jews. I do not believe the church has replaced the Jews and the promises made to the Jews are now for the Christians. I believe God is not done with the Jewish people. I believe America should support Israel and I believe God has His hand covering the Jews. To curse the Jews is to be cursed and to bless them is to be blessed. So I wanted you to understand my beliefs concerning the Jewish people. I expect people may argue this but this is what I see according to the Bible.

When I speak of OT law I am speaking of the sacrificial laws where animal blood was used to cover sin and the priest spoke to God for the people. Another poster here went deeper into it. But my point from the first is not that the OT is useless but that Jesus fulfilled the law when He died. I posted Scripture to show that was true. So now Jesus blood takes away our sin,not just covers,He takes away our sin. We don't need animal blood,we don't need a priest. The OT law is fulfilled in Christ. This is the point I have trying to make all along. I don't know that we agree yet. But perhaps we may.

Thanks so much for answering!

We are still on the same page but the words are interpreted a bit differently. Everything is the same up until interpreting what the OT means to us. I think the Lord, being eternal, gave us Christ at the time Adam fell but Christ's full power was withheld with our kind of time. For those 4,000 years, the sacrificial system was used the same way that Christ is used, but not as well. I base that on Matt. 27: 51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people. In the OT death is spoken of as sleep, now it means eternal life. So I think that the sacrificial system and Christ are closely connected, with each explaining the other.

When I read the term OT law, to me it hasn't meant the part of the sacrificial system that is gone with Christ but God's eternal laws that operates our world. The law that 119th Psalm is speaking of, so you are speaking of oranges and I am responding to apples.

When you speak of Christ fulfilling the law it means something entirely different to each of us. I think that when we take our sins to Christ with repentance in our hearts that they are completely wiped out, and that fact fulfills what was spoken of Christ before. But sin is still sin and sin still means death. I never could wrap my head around what fulfilling the law means to the present day church, but it doesn't mean to them that Christ is the answer to all spoken of Him and Christ fulfilled all of it as I feel so certain is what God meant when God told us about fulfilling.

It seems to me that we need to know about what animal blood did, and we need to know about the duties of the levi Priests, not because they are still in effect but they give us an understanding of the more perfect way those things are done, now. I don't think we truly understand God's ways and principles unless we first understand God at creation and explained in the OT. I think God's ways are eternal, and we have all of that only better.

So I think that perhaps the Mesianic Karaite Jew might be one up on us because of his background of learning God's eternal laws first.

 

[kaylagrl]

Thanks so much for answering!

We are still on the same page but the words are interpreted a bit differently. Everything is the same up until interpreting what the OT means to us. I think the Lord, being eternal, gave us Christ at the time Adam fell but Christ's full power was withheld with our kind of time. For those 4,000 years, the sacrificial system was used the same way that Christ is used, but not as well. I base that on Matt. 27: 51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people. In the OT death is spoken of as sleep, now it means eternal life. So I think that the sacrificial system and Christ are closely connected, with each explaining the other.

When I read the term OT law, to me it hasn't meant the part of the sacrificial system that is gone with Christ but God's eternal laws that operates our world. The law that 119th Psalm is speaking of, so you are speaking of oranges and I am responding to apples.

When you speak of Christ fulfilling the law it means something entirely different to each of us. I think that when we take our sins to Christ with repentance in our hearts that they are completely wiped out, and that fact fulfills what was spoken of Christ before. But sin is still sin and sin still means death. I never could wrap my head around what fulfilling the law means to the present day church, but it doesn't mean to them that Christ is the answer to all spoken of Him and Christ fulfilled all of it as I feel so certain is what God meant when God told us about fulfilling.

It seems to me that we need to know about what animal blood did, and we need to know about the duties of the levi Priests, not because they are still in effect but they give us an understanding of the more perfect way those things are done, now. I don't think we truly understand God's ways and principles unless we first understand God at creation and explained in the OT. I think God's ways are eternal, and we have all of that only better.

So I think that perhaps the Mesianic Karaite Jew might be one up on us because of his background of learning God's eternal laws first.

So I think that the sacrificial system and Christ are closely connected, with each explaining the other.

I would agree with this. There is foreshadowing of Christ all through the OT. The Jews were looking for a Messiah because of verses in the OT. I agree the sacrificial system and Christ are closely tied.

When I read the term OT law, to me it hasn't meant the part of the sacrificial system that is gone with Christ but God's eternal laws that operates our world. The law that 119th Psalm is speaking of, so you are speaking of oranges and I am responding to apples.

I agree we are taking apples and oranges,but I like both It seems we have been using different definitions.

I think that when we take our sins to Christ with repentance in our hearts that they are completely wiped out, and that fact fulfills what was spoken of Christ before. But sin is still sin and sin still means death.

Yes,I agree ours sins are wiped away when we repent. And yes, sin is still sin and leads to death. That is why I believe evangelism is very important.

It seems to me that we need to know about what animal blood did, and we need to know about the duties of the levi Priests, not because they are still in effect but they give us an understanding of the more perfect way those things are done, now. I don't think we truly understand

God's ways and principles unless we first understand God at creation and explained in the OT. I think God's ways are eternal, and we have all of that only better.

I agree with all of that too. I thought it was interesting that our pastor said that the animal blood covered sins,but Jesus' blood wipes away our sin.

So I think that perhaps the Mesianic Karaite Jew might be one up on us because of his background of learning God's eternal laws first.

I was trying to find information on whether there were Messianic Karaite Jews and couldn't find it. My mother lives next to a Messianic Jew. I haven't had a chance to talk to him about his beliefs yet but I hope to.

 

[Blik]

I would agree with this. There is foreshadowing of Christ all through the OT. The Jews were looking for a Messiah because of verses in the OT. I agree the sacrificial system and Christ are closely tied.



I agree we are taking apples and oranges,but I like both It seems we have been using different definitions.




Yes,I agree ours sins are wiped away when we repent. And yes, sin is still sin and leads to death. That is why I believe evangelism is very important.




I agree with all of that too. I thought it was interesting that our pastor said that the animal blood covered sins,but Jesus' blood wipes away our sin.

I was trying to find information on whether there were Messianic Karaite Jews and couldn't find it. My mother lives next to a Messianic Jew. I haven't had a chance to talk to him about his beliefs yet but I hope to.

Isn't communication great! I will try to understand posts better, I will, I will!!!

 

[kaylagrl]

Isn't communication great! I will try to understand posts better, I will, I will!!!

Rofl!! I will do the same! Since we seem to be the only ones talking on this thread now,what is your opinion of blood moons? Do you think they have an significance?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

What a degrading question to ask anyone who tells you they believe in what scripture tells them. Like asking if I consider myself as holy as God.

If you feel free to ask me that, when scripture tells me it is only God who gives salvation, may I ask you if you can ask forgiveness for a sin you do not repent of?

if by repent you mean you immediately stop whatever sin you ask forgiveness for, then we are all doomed

you have a very quirky understanding of both forgiveness and what it is

so tell us please do, how many times did Jesus say we should forgive someone?

WHAT? CAN'T HEAR YOU...LOUDER PLEASE

I feel free to tell you but I doubt you are free to answer properly

further, this mock outrage of yours....(What a degrading question to ask anyone) is really only about how righteous you believe yourself to be

and

you can quote me

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I know it's a long read but if you wish to understand where the OP is coming from it's worth the moment to read it.

I'll pass

every thread he creates is basically the exact same thread

only the words have been changed to confuse the innocent

 

[Dino246]

I'll pass

every thread he creates is basically the exact same thread

only the words have been changed to confuse the innocent

The OP is female, according to the profile. She's put me on Ignore so there is little point in me trying to correct her.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

The OP is female, according to the profile. She's put me on Ignore so there is little point in me trying to correct her.

well oopsie doopsie then

checked it and you are right

the point is to be right here. not be corrected

the nerve you have

 

[Blik]

if by repent you mean you immediately stop whatever sin you ask forgiveness for, then we are all doomed

you have a very quirky understanding of both forgiveness and what it is

so tell us please do, how many times did Jesus say we should forgive someone?

WHAT? CAN'T HEAR YOU...LOUDER PLEASE

I feel free to tell you but I doubt you are free to answer properly

further, this mock outrage of yours....(What a degrading question to ask anyone) is really only about how righteous you believe yourself to be

and

you can quote me

For goodness sakes, what a tempest in a teapot!! If you want to go to Christ for forgiveness and tell Christ that you want to repeat the sin you ask forgiveness for and intend to do it, it is up to you to go ahead with it. Between you and Christ and I am not part of it.

 

[Blik]

Rofl!! I will do the same! Since we seem to be the only ones talking on this thread now,what is your opinion of blood moons? Do you think they have an significance?

I am impressed with the way the Jews interpreted scripture about the Messiah coming and how wrong they were about what scripture told them. I'll bet that we are doing the same thing as we read the signs of the last days. The blood moons are part of the signs according to scripture, or I think they are what scripture points to.

So what I do about it personally is to not make assumptions about any of it but just trust the Lord to care for me.

 

[Blik]

t

if by repent you mean you immediately stop whatever sin you ask forgiveness for, then we are all doomed

you have a very quirky understanding of both forgiveness and what it is

so tell us please do, how many times did Jesus say we should forgive someone?

WHAT? CAN'T HEAR YOU...LOUDER PLEASE

I feel free to tell you but I doubt you are free to answer properly

further, this mock outrage of yours....(What a degrading question to ask anyone) is really only about how righteous you believe yourself to be

and

you can quote me

What a tempest in a teapot! If you go to Christ for forgiveness but want to repeat the sin you ask forgiveness for, then go for it. It is you and Christ, no one else is involved.

Perhaps Christ will tell you that it is OK sonny boy, you just go ahead with whatever sin you wish to commit, I'm always here to clean you up.

Is that how your earthly Father treated you?