Some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God

TheDivineWatermark · Mar 3, 2019

Matthew 17:9 [blb] -

"9 And as they were descending from the mountain, Jesus instructed them, saying, “Tell to no one the vision, until the Son of Man is risen out from the dead.” "

The Transfiguration was a kind of "picture" (actually taking place in their experience) of His Second Coming glory (at which time, He will "and then he will reward each, according to his work [singular; G4234 - praxin ]" Matthew 16:27).

Note that both Isaiah 40:10 and Isaiah 62:11 end with the bolded portion of the following: "Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him."

[I see Ahwatukee posted ahead of me!

]

Ahwatukee · Mar 3, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

I'll tell you Watermark,

Anyone who actually believes that Jesus has already returned to end the age and has already sent out His angels, has no clue about end-time events. As I continue to tell them. when returns to the earth to end the age, that will be the end of all human government and the beginning of His millennial kingdom. If Jesus had returned in 70 AD as they claim, we would have already gone through the millennial kingdom and would now be living in the eternal state. Yet, we haven't even begun the last seven years. And a whole lot of events need to take place before Jesus returns to end the age.

tanakh · Mar 3, 2019

Ahwatukee said:

If you want to present your case at least get your eschatological facts straight. Only FULL Preterism claims that the second coming as
believed by the rest of the Church throughout its history all happened in AD70. PARTIAL Preterists and Amillenialists still believe that Christ is to come again judge the world and bring about a new heaven and new earth. Where you seem to have a blind spot is in the fact that God has come in judgement within history and that AD70 was one such major occasion together with the judgement of Israel using the Assyrians and Judah by the Babylonians Christs ministry crucifixion resurrection and ascension brought about
the end of the Old Covenant age. That's why there hasn't been a Temple in Jerusalem FOR 2000+ Years. You don't need to read Josephus to work that out just study the Gospels and Jesus teaching about the kingdom together with his warnings to the Jewish leadership with the use of parables like that of the of the Vineyard and Tenants.

Christ came and brought the kingdom with him at his first coming. The Kingdom is wherever God is present and Jesus was God incarnate. His Parable of the Mustard seed and the Leaven explains how the kingdom grows. Daniels vision of a stone hitting a statue and growing into a Mountain also explains it. The kingdom of heaven is still growing with every person who comes to belief in Christ through the Holy Spirit the third person of the trinity

In Genesis God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful multiply and have dominion over his creation. The whole Bible is a progressive revelation of Gods plan of redemption through Christ using Covenants,Types and Symbols. The ultimate aim is to bring humanity back in fellowship with God and to have dominion once again over creation under Gods rule.

Ahwatukee · Mar 3, 2019

tanakh said:

Hello Tanakh,

Full preterism is exactly who I was talking about. The very fact that I said that they believe that most end-time events have already taken place, as well as the resurrection having already taken place, should have been a clue to you and anyone reading that full preterists is the group I was speaking about. I wasn't aware that I had to clarify myself on this issue. I'm well aware of the partial preterism view.

cv5 · Mar 3, 2019

tanakh said:

If you want to present your case at least get your eschatological facts straight. Only FULL Preterism claims that the second coming as
believed by the rest of the Church throughout its history all happened in AD70. PARTIAL Preterists and Amillenialists still believe that Christ is to come again judge the world and bring about a new heaven and new earth. Where you seem to have a blind spot is in the fact that God has come in judgement within history and that AD70 was one such major occasion together with the judgement of Israel using the Assyrians and Judah by the Babylonians Christs ministry crucifixion resurrection and ascension brought about
the end of the Old Covenant age. That's why there hasn't been a Temple in Jerusalem FOR 2000+ Years. You don't need to read Josephus to work that out just study the Gospels and Jesus teaching about the kingdom together with his warnings to the Jewish leadership with the use of parables like that of the of the Vineyard and Tenants.

Christ came and brought the kingdom with him at his first coming. The Kingdom is wherever God is present and Jesus was God incarnate. His Parable of the Mustard seed and the Leaven explains how the kingdom grows. Daniels vision of a stone hitting a statue and growing into a Mountain also explains it. The kingdom of heaven is still growing with every person who comes to belief in Christ through the Holy Spirit the third person of the trinity

In Genesis God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful multiply and have dominion over his creation. The whole Bible is a progressive revelation of Gods plan of redemption through Christ using Covenants,Types and Symbols. The ultimate aim is to bring humanity back in fellowship with God and to have dominion once again over creation under Gods rule.

Matt 24:14
"And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."

This end did not occur in 70AD of course. Despite the contrary notions of the extreme preterists.

Locutus · Mar 3, 2019

Unfortunately for the above poster "the end did come" when context and the writings of Paul are taken into consideration:

Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

The above is speaking of the the apostles and contemporary disciples

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

Mark 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Paul said the gospel had been preached to every creature:

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

To suggest that the gospel had not been preached in all the nations is to claim that the eleven and Paul failed to carry out Jesus' command to preach the gospel to every creature.

cv5 · Mar 3, 2019

Locutus said:

Unfortunately for the above poster "the end did come" when context and the writings of Paul are taken into consideration:

Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

The above is speaking of the the apostles and contemporary disciples

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

Mark 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Paul said the gospel had been preached to every creature:

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

To suggest that the gospel had not been preached in all the nations is to claim that the eleven and Paul failed to carry out Jesus' command to preach the gospel to every creature.

Did the apostles reach Nepal? The New World? China? British Isles?
More preterist error and absurdity. The furthest reaches of the world are only now being penetrated.

Guojing · Mar 3, 2019

Ahwatukee said:

For me, I adopt a dispensationalist view of Acts of the Apostles. If all the Jews had accepted the offer of the kingdom by Peter in Acts 2, instead of rejecting it and stoning Stephen at the end, Jesus would have returned to set up his kingdom in Jerusalem.

Thus, Jesus was not wrong when he made that remark about "some who are standing here..."

But because the Jews were given free choice and rejected Jesus as their King, that offer was postponed, as you have said, until the end of the Great Tribulation.

SIMON55 · Mar 3, 2019

Any walking dead or Necrophiles or Necromancers here that can tell us what
DEATH TASTES LIKE ???

TheDivineWatermark · Mar 4, 2019

cv5 said:

Correct, it didn't. It pertains to (the SEQUENCE shown in):

--Matt22:7 [the 70ad events: "the king... was WROTH... and he sent forth his armies...and burned up their city" SEE Lk21:20,22,23 "wrath upon this people" (70ad events section of the Olivet Discourse)]

--THEN Matt22:8 (AFTER THAT, meaning, AFTER the 70ad events) [the "THEN SAITH HE to his servants"... and what did He "SAITH UNTO" them AFTER 70ad events, He was IN HEAVEN at that point!; He disclosed FURTHER INFORMATION referring to His Second Coming to the earth, and the specific, limited, future time period leading UP TO IT: disclosed in LATER (95ad) "[The] Revelation" (see 1:1 / 7:3 "servants of our God"), and which involves VERY SPECIFIC "time-stamps" and the like!]

So that, this [particular] "INVITATION" is not what is presently going out (during "this present age [singular]") but that which WILL be "preached in all the world" DURING that future, specific, limited time period (Matt24:14 [26:13] "this gospel of the kingdom"); Those of Israel who will have come to faith WITHIN that time period will be the ones taking that particular message forth (and the Gentiles at that time, who come to faith, are the "guests [plural]" they INVITE). Rev7:9,14 are showing some of those effects [destination: the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom... promised to Israel, and in which Gentiles will also be "BLESSED" to ENTER [both distinct from "the Church which is His body"])

tanakh · Mar 4, 2019

Guojing said:

Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. If the Jews had accepted him as their king it would have meant that he
would not have presented himself as a sacrifice and the sacrificial system together with a sinful humanity would continue forever instead of being a temporary type and shadow. The whole Bible points to him coming to remove the curse brought about by Adams fall.
The dispensationalist view seems to lose the plot when it comes to Gods purpose for humanity. Some Jews did accept him and today
some Gentiles accept him as well. Paul calls him the second Adam. Those who accept him are part of Gods new creation. They have come out of the old creation headed by the old Adam and into the new headed by Christ. Gods ultimate purpose is for a new heaven and a new earth. Instead of looking for a tribulation we should be looking forward to that.

Guojing · Mar 4, 2019

tanakh said:

Actually your second part need not follow, even if the first part is true. If the Jews did accept Jesus in the 4 Gospels, no doubt the kingdom would have started immediately and the wolf and the lamb will indeed lie down together, as prophesied by Isaiah 11:6. We will be effectively living in the Sermon on the Mount times then.

But there can come a time when Jesus will tell his Jewish followers he would still need to be crucified on the cross, but the scenario that will lead to that will be different of course.

Locutus · Mar 4, 2019

Guojing said:

Not really, his crucifixion was according to the scriptures and the rejection by the nation was prophesied.

Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

Luke 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

The cross was necessary for Christ to enter his glory (the kingdom) and we can determine what is meant by his glory:

Mark 10:35 And James and John, the sons of Zebedee, come unto him, saying, Master, we would that thou shouldest do for us whatsoever we shall desire.

Mark 10:36 And he said unto them, What would ye that I should do for you?

Mark 10:37 They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.

And we should remember he stated his kingdom was not of this world:

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

The claim that the Jews rejected the kingdom thus postponing it is in error as he could with his "servants fight" to take the physical kingdom if he wanted, therefore the dispensational argument is built on quick sand.

Guojing · Mar 4, 2019

Locutus said:

We are now going into free will vs determinism here. Yes, I agree with you that the rejection of Jesus by the Jews was indeed prophesied, but just because God foreknew it, does not mean he caused it.

Free will is critical when God created Man. Adam had the legitimate choice whether or not to eat the fruit. Likewise, the Jews always had the choice, in fact they had 2 opportunities to do so, since when Jesus was at the cross, he forgave them for rejecting him because "they knew not what they were doing". That is why in Acts, Peter could legitimately offer them the same Gospel of the Kingdom again, in Acts 3

19 Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; 20 and that He may send Jesus, the [f]Christ appointed for you,21 whom heaven must receive until the [g]period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.

But with the stoning of Stephen, they rejected that offer once again, this time, they were not given a third chance. We Gentiles benefited from that rejection, as Paul explained in great details in Romans 9-11.

tanakh · Mar 4, 2019

Guojing said:

The wolf and the Lamb lying down together represents the return to Eden like conditions before the fall when the animal kingdom was under Adams rule without sin and death. The problem with your scenario is that Christ reigning as a king would not solve the major problem of sin and death as I already stated. The idea that Jesus would at some point get himself crucified to fit in with this is an unlikely scenario to say the least. Another problem with Dispensationalism is failure to understand that Jews did accept Jesus
and that there is a distinction between National Apostate Israel and the true Israel of God. Those who accepted Jesus back then were the true Israel and every person who has accepted him since are also part of it whoever they are.

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect
for they are not all Israel which are of Israel. Neither
because they are the seed of Abraham are they all children
but in Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is they that are
children of the flesh these are not the children of God
but the children of the promise are counted for the seed

Romans 9:7-8

Now will I sing to my well beloved touching a song of his
vineyard. My beloved had a vineyard in a very fruitful hill
And he fenced it and gathered out the stones thereof and planted
it with the choicest vine and built a tower in the midst of it and
also made a winepress therein and looked that it should bring
forth grapes and it brought forth wild grapes. And now o inhabitants
of Jerusalem and men of Judah judge I pay you betwixt me and my vineyard
that i have not done to it? wherefore when I looked that it should bring forth
grapes it brought forth wild grapes? And now go to I will tell you what I will
do to my vineyard I will take away the hedge thereof and it shall be eaten up
and break down the wall thereof and it shall be trodden down. And I will lay it
waste It shall not be pruned nor digged but there shall come up briers and thorns
I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it

Isaiah 5:1-6

Return we beseech thee Lord of

Guojing · Mar 4, 2019

tanakh said:

Fair enough, its all speculation on our part anyway and no one will be sure how this "alternate reality" would play out in the case where the Jews as a whole did accept Jesus. But our reality now is that the Jews rejected Jesus so there is that.

Yes, some Jews did accept Jesus. We call them Messianic Jews, and they will have the privilege, like the rest of us Gentile Church, to escape the Great Tribulation. However, the Jews as a nation have rejected Jesus as their King, you are not denying that right?

Bingo · Mar 4, 2019

'Ponder this'.......
2 Peter 3:16 *16*He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
Bingo...believe I need God, Ok.
Praise God'

cv5 · Mar 4, 2019

tanakh said:

Exactly what "end" has taken place then? The end of Israel and the Temple? There are scores of Scripures that declare the re-establishing of Israels borders, people and Temple at the "end of the age" Then comes the Day of the Lord lasting 1000 years. The70AD judgment was a chastisement, by no means an "end".

Ahwatukee · Mar 4, 2019

Guojing said:

And praise God that they did not receive Jesus as their Messiah, for we would all still be in our sins and that because the righteous blood of the Lord would not have been shed to cover them! Once the church has been gathered, God will pick up right where He left off with Israel in fulfillment of that last seven years of the seventy sevens that were decreed upon them.

Regarding "there are some standing here who will not taste of death before they see the Son of Man arriving in His kingdom" I made all this clear in the very first post that, those Jesus was referring to as those who were standing there, was referring to Peter, John and James and the fulfillment of them seeing the Son of Man coming in His kingdom, or seeing the kingdom of God come with power, was referring to Peter, John and James, getting a sneak peek of the Lord in His glorified state. It was stated in the following ways:

1). Until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. (Matt.16:28)

2). until they see the kingdom of God arrive with power. (Mark 9:1)

3). until they see the kingdom of God. (Luke 9:27)

Regarding this, Jesus used the same phrase when rebuking the Pharisees and religious leaders:

"But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you."

Therefore, Jesus reference to "the kingdom of God having come upon them" had nothing to do with the end of the age, but that the kingdom of God had come upon them, because Jesus was driving out demons by the Spirit of God.

In conclusion, those who were standing there would not taste of death before they saw the kingdom of God coming with power, were Peter, John and James and it was fulfilled when the witnessed Jesus' transfiguration into His glorified state, as well as the appearance of Moses and Elijah.

Lanolin · Mar 4, 2019

Yea they SAW.
With their own eyes.
Even Peter says in his letter they were eyewitness to his MAJESTY. He didnt mean he just saw Jesus cos everyone around him also did see Jesus, but he saw his MAJESTY. When he was transfigured.

Some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God

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