Jesus is not coming back. He already did in 70 A.D.

[delirious]

Your under the illusion that they ask about the sign of his coming meaning his second coming but if you examine the Gospels in every case when Jesus spoke to them of his death they did not understand. So by the timeline of the Olivet discourse they(the disciples) did not understand or believe in a "second coming" and so were asking him about the "sign of thy coming"

The disciples knew Jesus was going away. Let's look at the next 2 verses in Matthew 24 and keep things in context:

Matt 24: 4-5, "And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives YOU. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.

Jesus is speaking to the disciples. He is not speaking to you and me. What you just quoted is straight out of many commentaries who try and say the disciples were confused. They were not. They knew He was going away.

So in Matthew 24:3 they ask what was the sign of your coming as the king,Messiah that is going to rule the world from the Temple you just said would not be standing for him to rule in. And the age they were in when it would end in aspect to the things he said(these things be?),,,The point is though if you examine all three Gospels(after Christ death) none of the Disciples/Apostles undersood he would die,be buried or rise the third day and so it is impossible that they ask him about the sign of his second coming so they had to be asking him about the sign of the only coming they understood as the King,Messiah that rules the world and every nation bows to in the Temple he just said would be destroyed.

The Bible never uses the term "second coming". The entire New Testament speaks of Christ's coming with His kingdom. One coming. It doesn't speak of multiple comings of Christ anywhere. Just one. That's what the disciples were asking about.

So what are you trying to say? I don't get your point. They knew when He came that He would be establishing His kingdom and it would be the end of the Jewish age. That's why they asked the question the way they did.

 

[delirious]

Your under the illusion that they ask about the sign of his coming meaning his second coming but if you examine the Gospels in every case when Jesus spoke to them of his death they did not understand.

For the sake of argument, let me agree with your position for a moment. Let's say that the disciples believed Jesus was going to be with them forever and never leave. Then let us ask ourselves: What do the disciples mean by their question in Matt 24: 3?

They must be asking something like, "When are you going to come into town and destroy these buildings and set up your kingdom?"

Would you agree? That they would be asking something like that? Then let me ask you this:

How would that be different than if He went away and came back? I don't see any difference. Do you?

 

[Oseas]

According to the Bible, Jesus' second coming was in 70 A.D. Here is a few Scriptures in support of this:

Matt 16: 27-28, "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

Matt 24: 30-31, "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. " This is the Olivet Discourse and in verse 34 it says "ALL these things will come upon this generation" Not some things but ALL these signs will come upon this generation.

Matt 10: 23, "17 But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues. You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. “Now brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. 23 For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

I have many more Scriptures I can provide if anyone is interested in discussing this. God bless.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I desagree for the Word desagree too, as follow:
Acts 1:v.9-11
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in His saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that Day. (The seventh and LAST Day or seventh and last millennium, the Millennium of Christ and the Day of the Lord)

1 Thessalonians 4:v. 15-18
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Philippians 3:20-21
Our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

In Christ JESUS, KING of kings and LORD of lords
Oseas

 

[iamsoandso]

For the sake of argument, let me agree with your position for a moment. Let's say that the disciples believed Jesus was going to be with them forever and never leave. Then let us ask ourselves: What do the disciples mean by their question in Matt 24: 3?

They must be asking something like, "When are you going to come into town and destroy these buildings and set up your kingdom?"

Would you agree? That they would be asking something like that? Then let me ask you this:

How would that be different than if He went away and came back? I don't see any difference. Do you?

All but that at that time they didn't realize he was going away and then going to return in that age/generation or if one would end and the next begin and then the stones would be set one off the other ect. By Acts 3:21 though if you notice when he would return in his second coming was apparent to them.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The disciples knew Jesus was going away. Let's look at the next 2 verses in Matthew 24 and keep things in context:

Matt 24: 4-5, "And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives YOU. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.

Jesus is speaking to the disciples. He is not speaking to you and me.

CORRECT, I agree with you (!) that He is not speaking to you and me. Have you seen my posts referring to the "proleptic 'you'" [meaning, basically, "all those in the future, of the same category". (BTW, Paul also uses such, in his epistles, speaking of the entire "Church which is His body," there, as opposed to merely the literal group of persons immediately before him [in that time, during his lifetime, for example])]?

Jesus (in His Olivet Discourse) is speaking to "THOSE TO WHOM the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom was promised." [and that was NOT to you and me, correct!]. At the time Jesus spoke His Olivet Discourse, He had NOT YET spoken anything regarding "Rapture," for example. [THAT is not the SUBJECT being covered in His Olivet Discourse, but revealed and explained elsewhere]. The Olivet Discourse is using a CONSISTENT "you/ye" (and it is a proleptic 'you').

 

[cv5]

The mental gymnastics is astounding. People simply won't accept what Scripture says.

Seven times the book tells you, at the very beginning and end of it, that the things in it will shortly come to pass. It uses several different words including: shortly (1: 1), near (1: 3), shortly (22: 6), quickly (22:7), at hand (22: 10), quickly (22: 12), quickly (22: 20).

That's 4 different words/phrases used 7 times at the beginning and end of the book that many people simply refuse to accept.

If you want to believe near, at hand, shortly, quickly, means 2,000 years and counting, that is up to you.

Allow me to make a few comments:
-the first temple has been destroyed
-the second temple has now been built albeit in a far more humble state than the former
-the prophecy is indicating that a future temple (the 3rd Temple of Ezekiel, Revelation and elsewhere) will be resplendent in refulgent glory eclipsing any of its predecessors
-given the foregoing, it becomes apparent that the term "in a little while" does indeed span
a gulf of time to this present day, as we await the fulfillment of the promise.

One cannot present an adequate treatment of this topic on a message board, but for the life of me I cannot fathom the failing of so many to apprehend the truth of futurist prophecy. There is just so much of it.....

Haggai Ch 2

Who is left among you who saw this house in its former glory? How do you see it now? Is it not as nothing in your eyes? Yet now be strong, O Zerubbabel, declares the Lord. Be strong, O Joshua, son of Jehozadak, the high priest. Be strong, all you people of the land, declares the Lord. Work, for I am with you, declares the Lord of hosts, according to the covenant that I made with you when you came out of Egypt. My Spirit remains in your midst. Fear not. For thus says the Lord of hosts: Yet once more, in a little while, I will shake the heavens and the earth and the sea and the dry land. And I will shake all nations, so that the treasures of all nations shall come in, and I will fill this house with glory, says the Lord of hosts. The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, declares the Lord of hosts. The latter glory of this house shall be greater than the former, says the Lord of hosts. And in this place I will give peace, declares the Lord of hosts.’”

 

[Locutus]

I'm Just going by what the scriptures said they understood because it dones't make sense to think they were asking about his second coming when other Scripture shows they didn't understand that at the time of the discourse.

Even they did not fully understand you can't say that Jesus didn't right?

 

[cv5]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I desagree for the Word desagree too, as follow:
Acts 1:v.9-11
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in His saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that Day. (The seventh and LAST Day or seventh and last millennium, the Millennium of Christ and the Day of the Lord)

1 Thessalonians 4:v. 15-18
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Philippians 3:20-21
Our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

In Christ JESUS, KING of kings and LORD of lords
Oseas

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Surely an unmistakeable phenomenon. And doubtless this has yet to occur.....

 

[delirious]

All but that at that time they didn't realize he was going away and then going to return in that age/generation or if one would end and the next begin and then the stones would be set one off the other ect. By Acts 3:21 though if you notice when he would return in his second coming was apparent to them.

The more I think about it the more I am convinced you are right. They probably did think He was going to stay with them forever and never leave.

John 16: 5-7, "But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ 6 But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you."

So it looks like they may not have realized it until Passover dinner.

Whether He goes away or stays the effect is the same. When He comes into town, either from heaven or after hanging out with the apostles for a while, the temple is destroyed which ushers in the "end of the age". Then Christ's kingdom is set up and He rules and reigns forever. This is what happened at the fall of Jerusalem. So the effect is the same whether He leaves or stays.

I agree with you on Acts 3: 21. They definitely knew after the ascension that He had gone away (obviously) and was coming back to end the Jewish age and set up His kingdom.

P.S. Thanks for pointing that out about them not realizing He was going away!

 

[iamsoandso]

Even they did not fully understand you can't say that Jesus didn't right?

I can say that the Scriptures state in Revelation 5,,,that none were able to look on it or loose it's seals until the Lamb was slain and that in Matthew 24,25 he had not yet been slain nor loosed it and none were found worthy to look on it and so it makes no sense to say he spoke of it in the Olivet discourse... and why do so many assume the discourse is an in-depth explanation of his second return when he had not yet been slain and loosed the seals is anyone's guess I suppose the same as in the disciples not understanding his second coming men read second coming into it,the same they sub-plant Jesus answering it before he was slain and loosing it's seals...

 

[Locutus]

I can say that the Scriptures state in Revelation 5,,,that none were able to look on it or loose it's seals until the Lamb was slain and that in Matthew 24,25 he had not yet been slain nor loosed it and none were found worthy to look on it and so it makes no sense to say he spoke of it in the Olivet discourse... and why do so many assume the discourse is an in-depth explanation of his second return when he had not yet been slain and loosed the seals is anyone's guess I suppose the same as in the disciples not understanding his second coming men read second coming into it,the same they sub-plant Jesus answering it before he was slain and loosing it's seals...

Not getting this Bro - what has the Olivet discourse got to do with Rev 5? John is seeing a vision after Christ's death and resurrection - Christ is speaking of what was to be.

 

[delirious]

-the second temple has now been built albeit in a far more humble state than the former
-the prophecy is indicating that a future temple (the 3rd Temple of Ezekiel, Revelation and elsewhere) will be resplendent in refulgent glory eclipsing any of its predecessors

There is no physical third temple that is to be rebuilt in the land of Israel in physical Jerusalem. Jesus is the third temple.

For thus says the Lord of hosts: Yet once more, in a little while, I will shake the heavens and the earth and the sea and the dry land. And I will shake all nations, so that the treasures of all nations shall come in, and I will fill this house with glory, says the Lord of hosts. The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, declares the Lord of hosts. The latter glory of this house shall be greater than the former, says the Lord of hosts. And in this place I will give peace, declares the Lord of hosts.’”

This is a quote from Haggai 2: 6-9. The "little while" came to pass within a few years when God made all the surrounding nations pay for the building of the second temple. You can read about it in Ezra 6 when all the surrounding nations "were shaken" for their gold and silver and animals for the temple's construction and sacrifices. That's why it says the silver and gold are mine in Hag 2: 8.

God knows how to tell time and this was fulfilled within a few years. Where it says the "glory of this house shall be greater than the former and...in this place I will give peace" that is referring to Jesus as the temple fulfillment. He is the greatest temple and far surpasses the first temple in glory. He is also the One who gives peace.

 

[Oseas]

The Bible never uses the term "second coming". The entire New Testament speaks of Christ's coming with His kingdom. One coming. It doesn't speak of multiple comings of Christ anywhere. Just one. That's what the disciples were asking about.

John 14:v.2-3
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Hebrews 9:v.28
Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

[delirious]

ohn 14:v.2-3
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Hebrews 9:v.28
Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Neither one of those verses say "second coming". It says He will appear a second time which is the one future coming that is referred to in Scripture. This took place in 70 A.D. It is called the "second coming" by Christians but the Bible doesn't use that phrase. It just says He will come with His kingdom.

 

[Oseas]

Jesus is speaking to the disciples. He is not speaking to you and me.

You are saying that as whether we were not disciples of Christ, right?

 

[iamsoandso]

The more I think about it the more I am convinced you are right. They probably did think He was going to stay with them forever and never leave.

John 16: 5-7, "But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ 6 But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you."

So it looks like they may not have realized it until Passover dinner.

Whether He goes away or stays the effect is the same. When He comes into town, either from heaven or after hanging out with the apostles for a while, the temple is destroyed which ushers in the "end of the age". Then Christ's kingdom is set up and He rules and reigns forever. This is what happened at the fall of Jerusalem. So the effect is the same whether He leaves or stays.

I agree with you on Acts 3: 21. They definitely knew after the ascension that He had gone away (obviously) and was coming back to end the Jewish age and set up His kingdom.

P.S. Thanks for pointing that out about them not realizing He was going away!

lol, yea count me in!!!,,, I noticed a long time back that the more I listened to camp A they had some good points but then drifted off into the foggy grey area,lol.. Camp B does too but also drifts off into the grey area. Camp C yep and D do too so I joined the outside the camps camp and I'm no longer ashamed to say things camp A,B,C, ect. regard as sensitive areas.

In the end we can say preterist,amill,dispy,futurist ect. all the day long when we should have kept it all simple like "Christian", and looked at all the foggy grey areas,lol. Who on earth would imagine that so many people of different ideas of this might exist in our day? And in the end who will win the great eschatological debate if there are any left in the Christian camp who do not understand,love them all.

 

[iamsoandso]

Not getting this Bro - what has the Olivet discourse got to do with Rev 5? John is seeing a vision after Christ's death and resurrection - Christ is speaking of what was to be.

Are any of the things he said in the Olivet discourse the things that were sealed until after he was slain and found worthy to loose them?

 

[Oseas]

Neither one of those verses say "second coming". It says He will appear a second time which is the one future coming that is referred to in Scripture. This took place in 70 A.D. It is called the "second coming" by Christians but the Bible doesn't use that phrase. It just says He will come with His kingdom.

You are saying that.

Jesus said: I will come again. Newly. Again.

Acts 3:v.19-21&24

19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

20 And He (the God Father) shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of RESTITUTION of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. (yes, exactly these last TWO Days)

 

[Locutus]

Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

The above is related:

Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

And the timing is stated here:

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

And:

Heb 10:37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.

The above is the true eschatology.

 

[Oseas]

Neither one of those verses say "second coming".

Revelation 1:7-8
7 Behold, He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen.

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.