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Jan 12, 2019
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They are preaching the exact Gospel. Jesus is the Savior of all mankind so He is worthy of all our praises and we should sacrifice a little for His Coming Kingdom. Can we?
Well, the distinction between the Gospel of the Kingdom, exclusive to the Jews, and the Gospel of Grace, which is for Jews and Gentiles, is a topic that will be too off-track from this discussion, so let us stop here. :)
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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You can get there like Moses "And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.

Or you can get there with diseases and sicknesses you thought you had to bear on Earth, because you think it glorifies God in the eyes of others. :)
No answer to the questiones i ask you.
To live in health and wealth is today no indicator for to live a God pleasant life.
And again, if you could show me where the writer of the NT teaches your doctrine, i would believedoctr
But there is not such a teaching. And the reality shows that this teaching is wrong.
 

gee20

Junior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Well, the distinction between the Gospel of the Kingdom, exclusive to the Jews, and the Gospel of Grace, which is for Jews and Gentiles, is a topic that will be too off-track from this discussion, so let us stop here. :)
Galatians 3:28 New International Version (NIV)
28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free,nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

The Gospel is that Jesus died on the cross for you and me to pay for our sins so that we may be welcome in Heaven and be saved from the wrath of God to come, so we must repent and trust our lives in Jesus. God is Just and we wouldn't want to go to hell. Please read the word of God so you may know the true living God and experience His Grace on a personal level. Yes, His Grace is available to all who wants to accept, but men are stubborn so please don't trust men, trust only the word of God. I'm pleading with you for your sake, Jesus is coming soon, let's all be ready, we will all be accountable in what we say and do, especially in what we teach to others.
 

gee20

Junior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Well, the distinction between the Gospel of the Kingdom, exclusive to the Jews, and the Gospel of Grace, which is for Jews and Gentiles, is a topic that will be too off-track from this discussion, so let us stop here. :)
 
Jul 23, 2018
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I know what the Bible teaches about healing. I just cant find your Position. And it seems you cant show me where the writers of the NT taught this to the church.
You put Salvation and physical healing in one pot. I cant find this in any teaching of the NT writer!
Either 1 or 2 peter " by his stripes you were healed*

I actually read the verses from bible gateway.
Thats how i am certain.
Certain from the authority of the word of God.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Galatians 3:28 New International Version (NIV)
28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free,nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

The Gospel is that Jesus died on the cross for you and me to pay for our sins so that we may be welcome in Heaven and be saved from the wrath of God to come, so we must repent and trust our lives in Jesus. God is Just and we wouldn't want to go to hell. Please read the word of God so you may know the true living God and experience His Grace on a personal level. Yes, His Grace is available to all who wants to accept, but men are stubborn so please don't trust men, trust only the word of God. I'm pleading with you for your sake, Jesus is coming soon, let's all be ready, we will all be accountable in what we say and do, especially in what we teach to others.
That 2 gospel mess is heresy.
In acts 15 it goes into detail that the apostles and Paul were on the same page.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Excellent point. Pity your critics do not realized that, when it comes to trusting God for salvation after they declare Jesus as the Lord and believe in his resurrection, they only have the Word of God to rely on.

No one can "feel in their body or emotions" that they are saved. But every church will teach, "Simply trust in the Word of God that says you are saved after praying to receive Jesus as your Lord". So they grew up being established in that truth that, "Since the Word of God says I am saved, then I am saved!"

But when it comes to physical healing, they are so eager to dismiss the Word of God that says they are healed by the stripes of Jesus, and state "But I am not healed! My body tells me that I am not healed! Therefore I cannot be healed!" :)
Especially since when looked at from the Gospels,Jesus' actions are opposite their beliefs.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Either 1 or 2 peter " by his stripes you were healed*

I actually read the verses from bible gateway.
Thats how i am certain.
Certain from the authority of the word of God.
He has already made up his mind, so there is really no point showing him any scriptures. :)
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Source?? This is a non-Biblical assumption. Meaning, we have no idea if in fact, it was something a rich man wore, or if it was Jesus' only possession.

Maybe his mother or aunt made it for him. Or maybe one of the women who followed Jesus and supported his ministry gave it to Jesus, knowing that many times, "He had no place to lay his head."

Israel gets cold in the winter, and even snows in the mountains. So, a good warm garment is essential for someone who was constantly going from Jerusalem to Galilee and back.

You have just held up Jesus as a rich man because of his chiton, or robe, when Scripture is silent on why Jesus came to have this garment. That is called being extra biblical, which is a typical tactic of Word Faith people, who don't know their Bibles, and only listen to the lying evangelists who try and get them to donate more, with this unbiblical nonsense. And only the preacher is getting rich!
I think his point was that it was seamless.
The word of God declares it was in fact seamless.
It is a tunic as John calls it.
Interestingly it really had to be as the pattern for it was laid out for the high priest to enter the H of H.
Jesus wore the same seamless tunic.

It was his tunic worn as our great high priest according to the pattern.

IOW, it had to be seamless.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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Either 1 or 2 peter " by his stripes you were healed*

I actually read the verses from bible gateway.
Thats how i am certain.
Certain from the authority of the word of God.

This is a perfect example of tearing part of a verse out of context! This is bad hermeneutics or Bible interpretation. You are believing it not because you read it in your Bible, but because some Word Faith evangelist cherry picked it, and you took this out of context preaching as true, rather than seeing what thise 6 words really say, when in context of the whole verse, and the passage!

"He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” 25 For “you were like sheep going astray,” but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls." 1 Peter 2:24-25. NET

What does the passage really say? Does it say by Jesus death everyone is healed? No!

The atonement is "He himself bore our sins!" Why, so we can be physically healed on demand?? It is quite clear, in this passage that Christ died so we would die to sin and live for righteousness!

We are redeemed by the cross of Christ, from our sin sickness! We were like sheep going astray, sinners, but because of Jesus death on the cross, we are set free by the Shepherd! In other words, we are no longer sheep going astray, because Jesus has saved us and brought him back to the safety and security of the sheep fold.

This psssage fulfills what was prophesied in Isaiah 53, that we are healed of our deep wounds of sin and death by Jesus death!

These are the verses Peter was quoting from Isaiah:

"4 Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his wounds we are healed." Isa, 53:4-5 ESV


Here are some links, to briefly explain why this Word Faith teaching is wrong! And context is the reason!

https://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/is-by-his-stripes-we-are-healed-a-promise-to-heal-everyone/

https://www.desiringgod.org/labs/by-his-wounds-you-have-been-healed
 
Jul 23, 2018
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You have me confused. Can you please post where anyone in this thread or any other said that the miraculous physical healings Jesus did in the NT were spiritual? In fact, there are too many solid examples of people being healed of physical ailments by Jesus for anyone to deny.

However, this is where the Word Faith has taken a wrong turn. It doesn't understand who God is, and therefore, the healings that Jesus performed are not necessarily for us to do. I do agree, healing of the body, soul and mind can happen today. But, it is the concept of being "little gods" which is totally misinterpreted, that is the foundation of why Word Faith believes it can COMMAND things into existence, if people would only deny reality, and lie about what is happening. Because claiming to be God, is blasphemy! And certainly heresy. And it shows a shallow and complete lack of understanding of the basis of theology, which is WHO GOD IS! It replaces a man centred doctrine with the truth of a holy, merciful and sovereign God. And it is heresy, in its claims that humans are gods.


So, how many times have you read the entire Bible from cover to cover, that you are firm in your doctrine? How many times have you looked at the so-called definitive verses Word Faith quotes, to see the context? As for interpreting from your belief, as I have repeated over and over in this thread, that is bad hermeneutics or Bible interpretation.

You are imposing your understanding on the text, to fit your preconceived ideas. Instead, we are called to read the Bible, to study it to see what it is saying to us, before we even begin to look at doctrine. Who God is, (Trinitarianism) how we are saved (soteriology) etc etc, come out of the text. We do not lay our interpretation on the text. This is the foundational principle on how to read the Bible. You are committing eisegesis, reading into Scripture what you want it to say. The only way this can be accomplished is to pull verses out of context, to go far beyond the text.

To say nothing of unfounded and untrue generalizations like people say Jesus only healed people spiritually. (Really an attack on people who can show you conclusively that Word Faith is wrong, while the whole movement mocks who God is, and you cover your ears, and are totally unteachable. And not just from me, but what the bible truly says!)

Jesus healed people physically. It was to show how he fulfilled the prophecies in the OT. It was to establish him in the eyes of the Jews the leaders and the people, that he was the promised Messiah. BUT, healing is not guaranteed anywhere in the Bible. It is NOT part of the atonement. Only salvation is part of the atonement. You simply cannot pull a few partial verses out of Isaiah 53, and correspond them to their fulfillment in the NT, and then claim Jesus went to the cross to heal us physically. Jesus' death and resurrection, the atonement, fulfilled the OT rituals and sacrifices as the one who saves us once for all for our sins.

I can bring out my stuff on Isa. and how healing is not in the atonement, if you want to discuss it. As for salvation, that is what the purpose of the atonement is.
The word " christian" basically means "little christs" or "Jesus' copycats".

"Little gods" are what we shoot for. To be like him. Like Jesus.
Not Gods,as satan tried to do in rebellion,but God's extended body on earth. His representatives. "Christians or little Jesus's"...."little gods"


You seem to first find a fault in a ministry,or some misuse,some extreme,then tirelessly attack biblical concepts while holding up extremes as " evidence".

Hence you denounce even the mention of the authority of the believer.
It is on the authority we cast out demons,raise the dead,heal the sick,etc.

It is like you remove the power in your own walk,then celebrate it.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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This is a perfect example of tearing part of a verse out of context! This is bad hermeneutics or Bible interpretation. You are believing it not because you read it in your Bible, but because some Word Faith evangelist cherry picked it, and you took this out of context preaching as true, rather than seeing what thise 6 words really say, when in context of the whole verse, and the passage!

"He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” 25 For “you were like sheep going astray,” but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls." 1 Peter 2:24-25. NET

What does the passage really say? Does it say by Jesus death everyone is healed? No!

The atonement is "He himself bore our sins!" Why, so we can be physically healed on demand?? It is quite clear, in this passage that Christ died so we would die to sin and live for righteousness!

We are redeemed by the cross of Christ, from our sin sickness! We were like sheep going astray, sinners, but because of Jesus death on the cross, we are set free by the Shepherd! In other words, we are no longer sheep going astray, because Jesus has saved us and brought him back to the safety and security of the sheep fold.

This psssage fulfills what was prophesied in Isaiah 53, that we are healed of our deep wounds of sin and death by Jesus death!

These are the verses Peter was quoting from Isaiah:

"4 Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his wounds we are healed." Isa, 53:4-5 ESV


Here are some links, to briefly explain why this Word Faith teaching is wrong! And context is the reason!

https://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/is-by-his-stripes-we-are-healed-a-promise-to-heal-everyone/

https://www.desiringgod.org/labs/by-his-wounds-you-have-been-healed
It is Gods heart to heal.
It really seems like you choose to remove any notion of healing.
Like healing just doesn't suit you or something. Therefore you work to make verses say something else.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
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This is a perfect example of tearing part of a verse out of context! This is bad hermeneutics or Bible interpretation. You are believing it not because you read it in your Bible, but because some Word Faith evangelist cherry picked it, and you took this out of context preaching as true, rather than seeing what thise 6 words really say, when in context of the whole verse, and the passage!

"He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” 25 For “you were like sheep going astray,” but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls." 1 Peter 2:24-25. NET

What does the passage really say? Does it say by Jesus death everyone is healed? No!

The atonement is "He himself bore our sins!" Why, so we can be physically healed on demand?? It is quite clear, in this passage that Christ died so we would die to sin and live for righteousness!

We are redeemed by the cross of Christ, from our sin sickness! We were like sheep going astray, sinners, but because of Jesus death on the cross, we are set free by the Shepherd! In other words, we are no longer sheep going astray, because Jesus has saved us and brought him back to the safety and security of the sheep fold.

This psssage fulfills what was prophesied in Isaiah 53, that we are healed of our deep wounds of sin and death by Jesus death!

These are the verses Peter was quoting from Isaiah:

"4 Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his wounds we are healed." Isa, 53:4-5 ESV


Here are some links, to briefly explain why this Word Faith teaching is wrong! And context is the reason!

https://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/is-by-his-stripes-we-are-healed-a-promise-to-heal-everyone/

https://www.desiringgod.org/labs/by-his-wounds-you-have-been-healed
"1 Peter 2:24-25. NET

What does the passage really say? Does it say by Jesus death everyone is healed? No!"

Nor does it mean everyone is saved.
That is called universalism.

You twisted it big time
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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Either 1 or 2 peter " by his stripes you were healed*

I actually read the verses from bible gateway.
Thats how i am certain.
Certain from the authority of the word of God.
You mean 1.Peter 2, 21-25, if you read the context you will find out that your verse is in relationship with sin and not with physical health.
If you see in this physical health, then you have to read it into the text. That is not what the text says.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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It is Gods heart to heal.
It really seems like you choose to remove any notion of healing.
Like healing just doesn't suit you or something. Therefore you work to make verses say something else.
Why then this is not taught from any writer of the NT?
I should believe somebody who stretches the word of God in the same way like f.e. JW do it
 
Jul 23, 2018
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You mean 1.Peter 2, 21-25, if you read the context you will find out that your verse is in relationship with sin and not with physical health.
If you see in this physical health, then you have to read it into the text. That is not what the text says.
That would be false.
The context would be the rest of the bible.
Kinda like the 100+ berses i directed you to.
Under your belief system you modify 1 peter to imply what you are making it say.
Since we have the rest of the bible'we CAN CLEARLY SEE healing as part of the atonement.
You are simply working tirelessly against Gods finished work.
Simple as that.
Your cure would be a bible study apart from prejudice on " healing" and "sickness".
But that is not likely
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Why then this is not taught from any writer of the NT?
I should believe somebody who stretches the word of God in the same way like f.e. JW do it
What are you talking about????
I literally stuck your nose in those 100+ verses that forever damages your ignorance.
The cure would be instant.
Just read the healing and sickness verses.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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I want more faith. Not less.
I desire peoples healing.
I hate it when people are sick.

It,sickness,is a curse. A curse ed thing.
An intruder. A trespasser. A giant.
Giants manifest for one reason.

TO BE DECAPITATED.
Thats what we do to giants.
WE WILL NOT PUT UP WITH THOSE LITTLE CURSE ED SPIRITS OF INFIRMITY.
They MUST give way. They Must be evicted and removed and cast down and DECAPITATED. Big time.

It is a slam dunk ....period!!!!
There is nothing more powerful than the king!!!
They,infirmities,go down every single time!!!!!!
Nothing is bigger or more powerful than God.
Its not that Goliaths are unmovable or something to rule and ruin lives.
Its that David is not arrived.
Once David shows up they mock,they jeer,they laugh,they accuse,they even put the armor of the fearful on him.

David throws off their fearful twists of scripture and clothes himself with the heart of the Lion. Invokes the prophetic Word of God and KNOWS all heaven has taken aim at that wimpy giant that seems so powerful.
Both he and sickness are no match for God.
David is just the arm of God.
We can take it up,or hide and watch.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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That would be false.
The context would be the rest of the bible.
Kinda like the 100+ berses i directed you to.
Under your belief system you modify 1 peter to imply what you are making it say.
Since we have the rest of the bible'we CAN CLEARLY SEE healing as part of the atonement.
You are simply working tirelessly against Gods finished work.
Simple as that.
Your cure would be a bible study apart from prejudice on " healing" and "sickness".
But that is not likely
I have no prejustice in healing and Sickness. And i have not an believesystem. To Take just Easily Word and Verses out of the context and fill them with your Ideologie is man Made Theologie.

Sorry to say it, but you Reading something in the Text, what is not Standing and meaning there. Your can do this But you must not wonder if you then Coming to false teachings. Is it only concerns to you it is your Thing, but if you Teach to others you Take the responsibility.
And as I told it repeaditly. It is not taught from any NT writer!
And God is not Standing behind it.
You are then not better then the Cults which taking the Word of God according their Doctrine for Support the same.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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What are you talking about????
I literally stuck your nose in those 100+ verses that forever damages your ignorance.
The cure would be instant.
Just read the healing and sickness verses.
Thats a fact. Your spreading false teachings. Like many others do.
To Read Verses and Take them out of the context for to create a Theologie is man Made.
And again in the whole NT this is not taught to the believers und you could bring me no Single proof that i am wrong.