The hypocrisy of the left Part: I

[jaybird88]

I see that your preferred way of dealing with topics you can't answer cogently with a logical reply is to insult people. I'm sure it's fun for you, but it doesn't solve your problem, in that, you are displaying a large lack of basic Christian values, humility, and most of all: Grace. Not to mention common courtesy. "my 12 yr old is not here to interpret." Wonderful. That really got me. Sounds like something a 5-year old, or a Millennial would say. Eat the rich is not a difficult concept and if you've never heard the term, Google is your friend . . .

Exactly, no one like to be insulted. I dont think its fun but when someone swings at me I swing back.

The standard Liberal answer for "helping the poor" is always the same: Tax the working class more. It's the only answer they have.

Taxing those that have been bled dry and have nothing left to give sounds like the dumbest idea ever. I would settle for the rich to pay there fair share rather than 5 percent or in some cases zero.

I'm not talking about the Elderly. Or the infirmed. Or the mentally ill, and of course, you would already know that.

These are exactly the ones im talking about, when you cut social programs for the poor, they are the ones that get hurt.

But to defend your point, you have to poison the well, and make it look like people who do not support your flawed premise are mean and cold-hearted. It's a seedy tactic that marks you for exactly what kind of debater you are. One who doesn't deal well with points that don't support your worldview. But people cozied up with the Left can NEVER adequately deal with the fact that 99% of the entitlements in this country are given to people who refuse to work.

There are criminals in every walk of life that are going to take advantage, you deal with them the best you can, punishing the elderly is not the way to go about it.

Defend that concept for me Biblically.

Deuteronomy 15:7-11
7 “If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother, 8 but you shall open your hand to him and lend him sufficient for his need, whatever it may be. 9 Take care lest there be an unworthy thought in your heart and you say, ‘The seventh year, the year of release is near,’ and your eye look grudgingly on your poor brother, and you give him nothing, and he cry to the Lord against you, and you be guilty of sin. 10 You shall give to him freely, and your heart shall not be grudging when you give to him, because for this the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in all that you undertake. 11 For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, ‘You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.’

The Bible clearly tells us that we are responsible for taking care of ourselves. It tells us to earn our own keep.

and it commands us to take care of those in need.

The New Testament Church was giving aid to those in need within it's ranks.

Jesus relied on the hospitality of others when traveling.

The Church is not held responsible for giving financial aid to the entire world. It is supposed to deliver the Gospel and any aid that can be delivered is an out-growth of what is supposed to be the spread of more and more people who come to Christ through the Gospel. We are not called on, Biblically, to force the populace to support "the poor" through theft in the form of endless taxes. If you think you can lay out a case for that kind of rational from the Bible, go for it. Show me the money instead of carping about "the poor" and telling me I wouldn't help an elderly person in need. I support children in South America, so now would be a good time to say that your statement about a 90 year-old woman was ill advised.

a Christian should follow the example of Jesus, He fed and clothed those in need.

Even without that, there are approx. 100,000,000 unemployed people in the United States that I already support with my tax dollars. Just how many more people do you expect me to support?

i support them as well, i dont know what caused them to be unemployed but im not going to question a poor persons situation just to look for a way out of it.

John Chrysostom was a Catholic Bishop, so you shot yourself in the foot there, Sport. I was raised in a Southern Baptist and I never heard antisemitism there. You can't confer antisemitism on the entire Protestant Church because you heard it in your church. Is that the way you make your determinations? "Well, I saw it that one time in my Church, so it must be all over, and has been all over for 1000's of years." You might want to alter the way you process information.

Not really, the quote is from 344-407 A.D, before the orthodox split, before the reformation. In other words what this means is you cant blame this one on “the other” Christians because there were none at that time. The baptist church is not antisemitic, the point I was making is there are bad teachers that pop up here and there that teach it. Just as there are bad teachers in Islam. So maybe remove the plank.

I don't remember calling Muslims evil. Islam is evil. It is a satanic doctrine, so there is no question it is evil.

so if someone calle the Christian faith evil its ok because they are not calling Christians evil?

My faith isn't guilty of anything because I've never gone around killing people in the name of Christ. I don't know anyone who has.

Constintine declared war on the East claiming Jesus told him to, Chalamagne killed 4500 Saxons in one day because they didnt want to be Christian.

I'm only responsible for my actions and even then, you, again can't deal with the fact that the Bible does not teach killing people for the faith, but Islam clearly does. Have you studied Islam at all? Or you are basing your false dichotomies on . . . what?

your right the bible does not teach that, but one could easily take a few scriptures out of context and make that case, just the same as you do with Islam.
the US military budget is probably 10 times that of every Muslim nation combined. i dont see how they are any threat to the US. i have met many Muslims in my life and not one of them tried to kill me because i wasnt a Muslim.

 

[calibob]

https://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-stories/parable-of-the-lost sheep...
Jesus stops the crowd and begins to tell a story of how a shepherd left his flock of 99 sheep to go find one lost sheep. This parable displays beautiful meaning of God seeking out the lost sinner and rejoicing when they are found.

 

[calibob]

Jesus’ message is clear—it is impossible for anyone to be saved on his own merits. Since wealth was seen as proof of God’s approval, it was commonly taught by the rabbis that rich people were blessed by God and were, therefore, the most likely candidates for heaven. Jesus destroyed that notion, and along with it, the idea that anyone can earn eternal life. The disciples had the appropriate response to this startling statement. They were utterly amazed and asked, “Who then can be saved?” in the next verse. If the wealthy among them, which included the super-spiritual Pharisees and scribes, were unworthy of heaven, what hope was there for a poor man?

Matthew 19:21-26 English Standard Version (ESV)
21 Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” 22 When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.


23 And Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly, I say to you, only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” 25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?” 26 But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

 

[UnderGrace]

no one said throw money at the poor, its about taking care of those in need, like Jesus taught. There is a 90 yr old lady that lives down the road from me, why dont you go tell her to get off her lazy but and go out and earn her fair share. Lol

Jesus never once said this is to be done by governments.

Life is a series of choices make the wrong one and it can have long term problematic effects.

Seems to me prior generations seem to grasp this concept better.

 

[calibob]

Jesus never once said this is to be done by governments.

Life is a series of choices make the wrong one and it can have long term problematic effects.

Seems to me prior generations seem to grasp this concept better.

Yes, the ones who voted for FDR., Truman, Ike and JFK. If the majority don't have money to spend the economy flat lines.

 

[UnderGrace]

how about that corporate welfare that goes to walmart, con agra and every other billion dollar company.

That is crony capitalism not corporate welfare.

 

[UnderGrace]

Yes, the ones who voted for FDR., Truman, Ike and JFK. If the majority don't have money to spend the economy flat lines.

JFK, is the only on on that list that woke up and tried to turn the shipping sink (sinking towards globalism and the slave society) around and look what happened to him.

 

[calibob]

JFK, is the only on on that list that woke up and tried to turn the shipping sink (sinking towards globalism and the slave society) around and look what happened to him.

I agree. We need more like him.

 

[jaybird88]

Jesus never once said this is to be done by governments.

Life is a series of choices make the wrong one and it can have long term problematic effects.

Seems to me prior generations seem to grasp this concept better.

Luke 14:14
Then Jesus said to his host . . . When you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.

Jesus taught people should help those in need. the government is the voice of the people, or it was until corporations took it over.

That is crony capitalism not corporate welfare.

its an end result of capitalism when left unchecked.

 

[Jeauris]

i agree, the Dems are full of it, but i also dont see how anyone can support the GOP, war in iraq, 911 coverup, walstreet bailout, ruining public schools, privatizing power and water municipalities and prisons, and stomping down the poor working man.
they both only serve the one percent.

Yeah - we need Godly rulers, and I am very thankful for Trump. We need to pray and fight in the spirit and here in the arenas of man- political, social, etc. cause we live in a free country adn thats our duty really as rulers ourselves "by the people."

 

[Jeauris]

the war in the middle east is complex.
911 - there were lots of questions about what went on and the bush administration basically told the people to sit down and shut up.

capitalism with no social restriction gives you USA circa 1900 where families worked 14 hr days 6 days a week for a one room teniment home that many times they had to share with other families. and dont forget the kids had to work to. low wages, no safety, lose your arm in an accident you were tossed aside like garbage. thats capitalism in its purest form.

the whole point of these parties is to divide the people against each other. one party says they are for working men, the other for Christian values. all working men i know are Christian, divides each of us right through the middle.

we are doing great, she says i am to immature but that will never change. thank you for asking. hope all is well with you and your family.

The historical intent of the Republican Party was to abolish slavery. The original intent of the Democratic Party was to continue slavery -- that is what these are founded on. BUT, under Obama... "in the end days people group will rise up against people group.." has happened. Pray for America that she repents, the church, and God saves her.

 

[Jeauris]

so has Christianity. 500 years back when Christian Europe was persecuting Jews and stealing their homes and lands, it was Muslims that offered them a home and free will to worship.

not really, its actually the acts of corrupt greedy men in persuit of wealth power and influence. they use religion to manipulate the masses into their schemes, just like the crusades.



i love how build 7 fell without a single plain touching it, how every political statement was scripted, how no skyscraper had ever fell down due to planes hitting them before, how both towers fell in the exact way as if they were demo, and on and on and on. one would have to be pretty "stupid" to not notice such things and ask questions, maybe its just best to go back to watching reality tv and the latest hollywood celebrity scandal.



or how about that corporate welfare that goes to walmart, con agra and every other billion dollar company.
here is an interesting fact about corporate welfare, it is about double that of welfare for the poor. in other words the money that only benefits half of one percent is double that of hundreds of millions.
and here is another interesting fact, if you remove that welfare for the poor it wouldnt be enough to make a difference, gallon of milk will not change, your paycheck would not be bigger, this is just propaganda from the elite to justify taking that money as well, money from the single moms, elderly, disabled, the poorest of the poor. what kind of scumbag would want to take money from a disabled person? sad thing is so many fall for this hook line and sinker.

The democratic party mostly and the big companies who have politicians from both parties in their pockets. Welfare in the plantation economics of the democratic party keeps on making slaves of people "if you vote for us = welfare, if not those rich people will take them away." A good book or movie by a Christian man I can refer you to, two in fact "Obama's America" and "Hilary's America: The secret history of the Democratic Party." Dems And republicans regularly give welfare and other considerations to their donors - but less so on the Republican side

 

[Jeauris]

Have no idea what that means, my 12 yr old is not here to interpret.


no one said throw money at the poor, its about taking care of those in need, like Jesus taught. There is a 90 yr old lady that lives down the road from me, why dont you go tell her to get off her lazy but and go out and earn her fair share. Lol



John Chrysostom (344-407 A.D.) –
“The synagogue is worse than a brothel…it is the den of scoundrels and the repair of wild beasts…the temple of demons devoted to idolatrous cults…the refuge of brigands and dabauchees, and the cavern of devils. It is a criminal assembly of Jews…a place of meeting for the assassins of Christ… a house worse than a drinking shop…a den of thieves, a house of ill fame, a dwelling of iniquity, the refuge of devils, a gulf and a abyss of perdition."…"I would say the same things about their souls… As for me, I hate the synagogue…I hate the Jews for the same reason.”

this was before there was ever a RCC / protestant divide. It was just the church. Trying to blame antisemitism on Catholics as if it does not exist in the protestant churches is a joke. I grew up baptist and the majority of them talk pretty ugly about Jews.

It sounds like your saying when Muslims practice hate we can point our finger and call them the devil, when our own faith is guilty of the exact same thing, we ignore it. Wow.



in other words you have no response with any substance and when it comes to government everyone should just sit down, shut up and do what they are told. Lol bless your heart.

in America, the party whose military wing was and is the Klu Klux Klan continues to be the Democratic Party. The Party of freedom, equality, Godliness continues to be the Republican Party -- do some homework. There are those in both parties who want to cut of Social security and disability but they generally lose in a landslide. Obama bailed out the banks more grandly than ever in history and raised the deficit more than all other presidents combined -- do see "Obama's America" it is an eye opener - I suggest

 

[Jeauris]

Luke 14:14
Then Jesus said to his host . . . When you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.

Jesus taught people should help those in need. the government is the voice of the people, or it was until corporations took it over.



its an end result of capitalism when left unchecked.

No. Capitalism unchecked winds up being free trade, anyone being able to create their own life as God wills. Commnism's economic horrors are here to see in South Korea, Cuba, Venesuela and other places. USA and the world gave millions of lives and resources finallyh defeating the U.S.S.R. and the world rejoiced. Now satan has people like you fooled into thinking they were really right and America and free economies are bad. The onlhy reason that China still exists is that they switched to a capitalist economy heavily controled by the government. Sill a godless attrocity of a country.

Jesus did not say the government should take care of people He said The Church should take care of people. However, where the Church is unwilling or unable as in people who cannot care for themselves I agree that disability, some kind of aid is good. JOhn MCain fought for medical care for people - But Obama Care is a a scam of a scam - just let anyone take medicare like Congressman can if they choose. SImple

 

[UnderGrace]

Luke 14:14
Then Jesus said to his host . . . When you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.

Jesus taught people should help those in need. the government is the voice of the people, or it was until corporations took it over.



its an end result of capitalism when left unchecked.

Nope and nope

You could only make this case about the government if we lived in theocracy where every person is a Christian. That has never existed.
Democracy does not work, it is a flawed system, since it is the will of the majority imposing itself on the minority.

You really have misapplied Luke 14:14

If you knew anything about capitalism you would know that capitalism is a system of check and balances, it is government interference in those checks and balances that causes problems.

There is no end result of capitalism because it is not goal based system trying to create utopia, capitalism is based on the premise that humans are flawed but very capable of innovation......

.........which is very unlike socialism, where people are incapable of caring for themselves and therefire seeks to create a false utopia where everyone is equally poor except for a few at the top.

 

[UnderGrace]

JFK, is the only on that list that woke up and tried to turn the shipping sink (sinking towards globalism and the slave society) around and look what happened to him.

Too funny...

not sure what a shipping sink is

I think that should have read sinking ship!

 

[calibob]

Too funny...

not sure what a shipping sink is

I think that should have read sinking ship!

Here's a stinking ship->
LOL.

 

[calibob]

Nope and nope

You could only make this case about the government if we lived in theocracy where every person is a Christian. That has never existed.
Democracy does not work, it is a flawed system, since it is the will of the majority imposing itself on the minority.

You really have misapplied Luke 14:14

If you knew anything about capitalism you would know that capitalism is a system of check and balances, it is government interference in those checks and balances that causes problems.

There is no end result of capitalism because it is not goal based system trying to create utopia, capitalism is based on the premise that humans are flawed but very capable of innovation......

.........which is very unlike socialism, where people are incapable of caring for themselves and therefire seeks to create a false utopia where everyone is equally poor except for a few at the top.

It's starting to sound like you believe in a ruling class. That's why the USA rebelled against England to begin with.

 

[cobalt1959]

Exactly, no one like to be insulted. I dont think its fun but when someone swings at me I swing back.


Taxing those that have been bled dry and have nothing left to give sounds like the dumbest idea ever. I would settle for the rich to pay there fair share rather than 5 percent or in some cases zero.


These are exactly the ones im talking about, when you cut social programs for the poor, they are the ones that get hurt.



There are criminals in every walk of life that are going to take advantage, you deal with them the best you can, punishing the elderly is not the way to go about it.


Deuteronomy 15:7-11
7 “If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother, 8 but you shall open your hand to him and lend him sufficient for his need, whatever it may be. 9 Take care lest there be an unworthy thought in your heart and you say, ‘The seventh year, the year of release is near,’ and your eye look grudgingly on your poor brother, and you give him nothing, and he cry to the Lord against you, and you be guilty of sin. 10 You shall give to him freely, and your heart shall not be grudging when you give to him, because for this the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in all that you undertake. 11 For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, ‘You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.’


and it commands us to take care of those in need.



Jesus relied on the hospitality of others when traveling.


a Christian should follow the example of Jesus, He fed and clothed those in need.


i support them as well, i dont know what caused them to be unemployed but im not going to question a poor persons situation just to look for a way out of it.


Not really, the quote is from 344-407 A.D, before the orthodox split, before the reformation. In other words what this means is you cant blame this one on “the other” Christians because there were none at that time. The baptist church is not antisemitic, the point I was making is there are bad teachers that pop up here and there that teach it. Just as there are bad teachers in Islam. So maybe remove the plank.



so if someone calle the Christian faith evil its ok because they are not calling Christians evil?


Constintine declared war on the East claiming Jesus told him to, Chalamagne killed 4500 Saxons in one day because they didnt want to be Christian.


your right the bible does not teach that, but one could easily take a few scriptures out of context and make that case, just the same as you do with Islam.
the US military budget is probably 10 times that of every Muslim nation combined. i dont see how they are any threat to the US. i have met many Muslims in my life and not one of them tried to kill me because i wasnt a Muslim.

Yep, it's all me. You're right about everything. Happy?

You can't perform proper exegesis on the Biblical text you gave, you can't give a succinct definition of exactly who the poor are, you claim to be a Christian but openly say it's OK to insult people randomly, you obviously don't understand the concept and consequences of living in a fallen world, you don't understand the difference between faith in Jesus Christ and a satanic religion, and you just repeat the same tired talking points, over and over.

You aren't ready, or prepared for these kinds of debates.

 

[UnderGrace]

It's starting to sound like you believe in a ruling class. That's why the USA rebelled against England to begin with.

The ruling group extends far beyond the USA. I have always believed this, it seems quite self-evident.