Retire the Ten Commandments?

[mailmandan]

"From the above we see that Jesus by His death on the cross has caused our sins to be forgiven. This happened because His death caused the handwriting of ordinances which were against us to be blotted out. But what are these handwriting of ordinances?"

Paul goes on to proscribe these ordinances when he says:

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat,or in drink, or in respect of an holy day,or of the new moon,or of the Sabbath days:which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."[Colossians 2:16,17]

Colossians 2:14 - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

Ephesians 2:15 - Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.

The natural reading of Ephesians 2:14,15 and Colossians 2:14 would see that the entire Old Covenant written code was nailed to the cross, including the Ten Commandments (with all the rules and regulations attached to them under the Mosaic Law) which were the center point of the Old Covenant (Exodus 34:29-34).

"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns." But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).

The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter.

References for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant. (Colossians 2:16-17)

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - Matthew 5:33-37; 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7; James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

It is the book of Hebrews which explains the nature of these ordinances and shadows:

"For the law having a shadow of good things to come and not the very image of the things,can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect....For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins."[Hebrews 10:1-4]

And:

"Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us."[Hebrews 9:9-12]

These scriptures explain what the shadows are and even that the meat and drink refer to offerings made at those occasions and were not a reference to any eating or drinking (of which I know none) laws.

Even without this testimony however it is clear the passage refers to an action of Christ which caused forgiveness of sin which replaces these "handwriting of ordinances".

There is nothing in the old covenant which portrayed the 7th day Sabbath as having anything to do with the forgiveness of sins. The yearly festivals however held this connotation.

You remain confused and of course it was not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

 

[Endoscopy]

Many believe we should toss all 613 laws out because these were given to a people living in a culture thousands of years ago, laws not understood today and relate to a time of the temple.

God is our eternal God, one without the limitations of time. I think we should listen to God and try to understand the times the law was written in, I think the spirit of the law is eternal.

There are many divisions in the law. Keep in mind it is part of the Torah and is the word of God. The divisions have a horizontal and vertical divisions. The horizontal division is the do's and don'ts. Then the vertical ones are where they are applicable. Examples are Israel only, men, women, etc. Maimonides counted and documented them and no one has found more. Here is the list and a description of them. I keep this file for posting.

In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.

List of the 613 laws in the Torah
http://www.gods-word-first.org/bible-study/613commandments.html

Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

 

[preston39]

You don't understand the scripture?

2 Corinthians 3:14-15
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

Do you understand what this is saying?

Has nothing to do with...working

You see what foolishness sounds like?

Shame....the Bible is not foolishness.

 

[Deade]

4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17

You are taking this passage in Colossians as an exclusion from the weekly Sabbath. On the contrary, this was a warning of people bringing in new teachings other than Paul had instructed. The warning Col. 2:4 "And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words."

Paul was saying that there are new teachings that are subverting his. Col. 2:8 "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

The following is a teaching brought in about new man-made ordinances of fasting and inflicting oneself to further God's purpose. It does not refer to existing law.
Col. 2:16-23 [ESV]"Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."

 

[Deade]

"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns." But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).

The New Testament includes the law but in a new spiritual way. 2 Cor. 3:6 "Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."

When Christ gave the Beatitudes (Matt. 5-7) He was expounding on the true spiritual way to keep His laws. Start keeping the laws and see if you don't grow.

 

[Chester]

You are taking this passage in Colossians as an exclusion from the weekly Sabbath. On the contrary, this was a warning of people bringing in new teachings other than Paul had instructed. The warning Col. 2:4 "And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words."

Paul was saying that there are new teachings that are subverting his. Col. 2:8 "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

The following is a teaching brought in about new man-made ordinances of fasting and inflicting oneself to further God's purpose. It does not refer to existing law.
Col. 2:16-23 [ESV]"Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."

I agree with you that Col. 2:16,17 is not a prooftext that the Sabbath is not for us today. I am not a Saturday-day keeping person at all, but let's be careful how we use prooftexts.

 

[Blik]

The New Testament includes the law but in a new spiritual way. 2 Cor. 3:6 "Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."

When Christ gave the Beatitudes (Matt. 5-7) He was expounding on the true spiritual way to keep His laws. Start keeping the laws and see if you don't grow.

Every verse of scripture has many meanings, spiritual, symbolic, historical, and even hidden meanings. No scripture can be separated out as having only one kind of message.

This mistaken idea is behind a lot of the Christian idea of faith including no action. There is spiritual content in action, as there is spiritual content in the history scripture gives.

 

[Endoscopy]

The New Testament includes the law but in a new spiritual way. 2 Cor. 3:6 "Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."

When Christ gave the Beatitudes (Matt. 5-7) He was expounding on the true spiritual way to keep His laws. Start keeping the laws and see if you don't grow.

Something too many ignore is what Jesus said about the law.

Matthew 5 AMPC
17 Do not think that I have come to do away with or undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook [identifying certain Hebrew letters] will pass from the Law until all things [it foreshadows] are accomplished.
19 Whoever then breaks or does away with or relaxes one of the least [important] of these commandments and teaches men so shall be called least [important] in the kingdom of heaven, but he who practices them and teaches others to do so shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.

List of the 613 laws in the Torah
http://www.gods-word-first.org/bible-study/613commandments.html

Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

Since it is impossible for any of us to keep the law we thank God for the grace through faith in Jesus that seperates our sins from us. Without that we would be doomed. Woe to those who reject this grace.

 

[Matthew55]

Yes, He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns" (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).

The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter.

Tell me what you think is more demanding, the letter or the Spirit of the law?

Is the Spirit of the law a higher law than the letter of the law?

What is the Law of Christ?

 

[Endoscopy]

Tell me what you think is more demanding, the letter or the Spirit of the law?

Is the Spirit of the law a higher law than the letter of the law?

What is the Law of Christ?

The law is the 613 laws scattered through the Torah. Jesus stated they are in force until the heavens and earth disappear. So you tell me what law is higher than that. No one can keep the law so thank God for the grace through faith in Jesus for taking the condemnation from us.

 

[Locutus]

The law is the 613 laws scattered through the Torah. Jesus stated they are in force until the heavens and earth disappear. So you tell me what law is higher than that. No one can keep the law so thank God for the grace through faith in Jesus for taking the condemnation from us.

The heavens and earth of old was a covenant creation not the physical heavens and earth - Isaiah tells us when God created Israel's "heavens and earth":

Isa 51:16 And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.

The above is about giving the law to Israel and the creation of THEIR "heavens and earth" which was deconstructed with the sack of Jerusalem in the war of 66-70 AD and full establishment of the New covenant/creation.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The 613 laws and it's covenant when *poof* back in the 1st century AD.

 

[Deade]

The heavens and earth of old was a covenant creation not the physical heavens and earth - Isaiah tells us when God created Israel's "heavens and earth":

Isa 51:16 And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.

The above is about giving the law to Israel and the creation of THEIR "heavens and earth" which was deconstructed with the sack of Jerusalem in the war of 66-70 AD and full establishment of the New covenant/creation.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The 613 laws and it's covenant when *poof* back in the 1st century AD.

When the disciples received the Holy Ghost in Acts 2, what was the reference to Joel about? And what about the part in the last verse (2:21) “that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved?”Acts 2:16-21: “But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel. And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Has there been any era where that has happened? Joel chapter 1 speaks about the devastation of the earth and the Day of the Lord (Future events).

Then Joel 2 ends with: 31: “The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.” 32: “And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.”

Many say we are already in God’s new covenant that was prophesied in the OT and in Acts/Hebrews.

Heb. 8:7-13 “For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.”

Jer. 31:31-34 “Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

What can we conclude from this? What we have today is not the New Covenant God was talking about. Not yet. The way I read that is everyone that calls on the Lord will have salvation. Surely, that is not today. So, when is it?

 

[preston39]

You are taking this passage in Colossians as an exclusion from the weekly Sabbath. On the contrary, this was a warning of people bringing in new teachings other than Paul had instructed. The warning Col. 2:4 "And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words."

Paul was saying that there are new teachings that are subverting his. Col. 2:8 "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

The following is a teaching brought in about new man-made ordinances of fasting and inflicting oneself to further God's purpose. It does not refer to existing law.
Col. 2:16-23 [ESV]"Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."

The Bible warns us in 3 separate places to .....not.......change, modify, amend or other wise attempt to redact G-d's word. Nevertheless, since the 1960's we have seen all kinds of efforts to do just that thru new interpretations and/or revised versions of the bible. It is interesting that most of the new Bible editions have been since the 1960's.....why?.

 

[Deade]

The Bible warns us in 3 separate places to .....not.......change, modify, amend or other wise attempt to redact G-d's word. Nevertheless, since the 1960's we have seen all kinds of efforts to do just that thru new interpretations and/or revised versions of the bible. It is interesting that most of the new Bible editions have been since the 1960's.....why?.

So, you are afraid of newer translations. No need to be afraid of anything when you have the HS to teach you. Even the KJV has been tampered with but God is greater than the evildoers doing the tampering. I do grant you, some new versions have a lot of doctrine read into them: like the "Living Bible."

 

[mailmandan]

You are taking this passage in Colossians as an exclusion from the weekly Sabbath. On the contrary, this was a warning of people bringing in new teachings other than Paul had instructed. The warning Col. 2:4 "And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words."

Paul was saying that there are new teachings that are subverting his. Col. 2:8 "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

The following is a teaching brought in about new man-made ordinances of fasting and inflicting oneself to further God's purpose. It does not refer to existing law.
Col. 2:16-23 [ESV]"Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."

Paul clearly stated to beware that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ and Paul also clearly states in Colossians 2:16-17 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

Speaking of someone acting as your judge in regards to a Sabbath day in violation of Colossians 2:16-17, Seventh-day Adventists teach that the near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday. - http://www.nonsda.org/study8.shtml

 

[mailmandan]

The New Testament includes the law but in a new spiritual way. 2 Cor. 3:6 "Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."

When Christ gave the Beatitudes (Matt. 5-7) He was expounding on the true spiritual way to keep His laws. Start keeping the laws and see if you don't grow.

Which laws? All 613 laws scattered throughout the Torah? No. Since the old covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God made obsolete the old covenant to put legally into place the new covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13). The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2). Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10). Out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments which are reiterated in the New Testament, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians in the New Testament.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - Matthew 5:33-37; 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7; James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

 

[mailmandan]

Tell me what you think is more demanding, the letter or the Spirit of the law?

Is the Spirit of the law a higher law than the letter of the law?

What is the Law of Christ?

James 2:10 - For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

Galatians 3:10 - For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.” That sounds very demanding!

To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the Old Covenant would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced. So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath (Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19). *Also, according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people. That also sounds very demanding!

As Paul explained in 2 Corinthians 3:6-9, "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns." But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.

In Galatians 6:2, we read - "Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ." The law of Christ is also mentioned in 1 Corinthians 9:21 and although the Bible does not seem to give a precise, specific definition of the law of Christ, many people understand the law of Christ to be what Christ stated in the two great commandments. Mark 12:28 - One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord; 30 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

In place of the Mosaic law and being under the law in the Old Testament, Christians are to fulfill the law of Christ. Rather than being under 613 laws under the old covenant, Christians are to love God and loving others as ourself. If Christians were to obey these two great commands, we would be fulfilling the law of Christ.

Sadly, there are those who pervert the gospel by teaching salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." Here is an example below from a statement made by a former member of Christian Chat (who happens to be SDA) that I was once in a discussion with.

"There is another Gospel out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. The counterfeit Gospel is out there. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ."

Of course that statement above is absolutely FALSE. During his time on Christian Chat (prior to getting banned) this SDA had a link to a website called, "TheBeastsMarkiscoming" that promotes the idea that those who worship God on Sunday instead of Saturday will receive the mark of the beast. He was absolutely obsessed with turning keeping the Sabbath day into a legalistic prescription for salvation for the Church in the New Testament, contrary to scripture.

 

[Endoscopy]

The heavens and earth of old was a covenant creation not the physical heavens and earth - Isaiah tells us when God created Israel's "heavens and earth":

Isa 51:16 And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.

The above is about giving the law to Israel and the creation of THEIR "heavens and earth" which was deconstructed with the sack of Jerusalem in the war of 66-70 AD and full establishment of the New covenant/creation.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The 613 laws and it's covenant when *poof* back in the 1st century AD.

You ignore what Jesus stated. I'll post it again.

Matthew 5 AMPC
17 Do not think that I have come to do away with or undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook [identifying certain Hebrew letters] will pass from the Law until all things [it foreshadows] are accomplished.
19 Whoever then breaks or does away with or relaxes one of the least [important] of these commandments and teaches men so shall be called least [important] in the kingdom of heaven, but he who practices them and teaches others to do so shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.

List of the 613 laws in the Torah
http://www.gods-word-first.org/bible-study/613commandments.html

Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

 

[Endoscopy]

Sin is defined as breaking God's law. When we admit we sin we are saying the law is in place. Breaking the law condemns us. Thank God for the grace through faith in Jesus that removes the penalty from us. Woe to those who reject this free gift of grace.

 

[Deade]

Which laws? All 613 laws scattered throughout the Torah? No. Since the old covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God made obsolete the old covenant to put legally into place the new covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13). The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2). Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10). Out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments which are reiterated in the New Testament, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians in the New Testament.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - Matthew 5:33-37; 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7; James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

You can pour out words to justify just how you define the laws of Jesus Christ and point us to the curse of trying to be justified by keeping them all you want. The position I hold is I am justified by grace and need not keep any of the law for salvation. That brings us down to just what points in the law are still good for us.

Because of the weakness of our flesh, we sometimes still need guidance as to what sin is so we can stay away from that way. When someone comes in to the forum and states they obey God differently than we do, our ego jumps all over that. We know it is our ego when we resort to name calling and belittling statements. How much better it would be if we all calmly worked toward uncovering God's truths and edifying the brethren.