Open Theism

[Endoscopy]

the congregation would hear those parts of the Nicene Creed which are essentially restatements of the beginning of 1st Corinthians 15, which Paul says is the gospel.

I don't doubt that befriending a person is the most efficient way to convert them to Christianity. I was talking about whether or not the gospel is proclaimed in many churches throughout the USA or only a few.

If only by repeating a Creed by rote not really. After a while it becomes meaningless unless preached about from the pulpit. The Bible states that the it is by hearing of the gospel message we receive salvation. Not parroting it. A parrot only imitates sounds it hears. It doesn't understand it.

 

[Didymous]

a single legion was at that time ~ 5,000 trained fighting men. so the reference is to somewhere in the neighborhood of ~60,000 angels prepared for war.

when the Jews revolted against Roman occupation in 66AD they did so with considerably less than 20,000 militia, and won some key victories. Gallus mustered the Syrian army and fielded about 30,000 to quash the rebellion, with some short-lived success. in 67-68, Vespasian & Titus invaded with approximately 60,000 Roman troops ((coincidence?)). this is the fighting force which ultimately under Titus' command ((Vespasian, his father, having returned to Rome to pursue political power, it seeming possible that he might be named Caesar)) laid siege to Jerusalem and destroyed the temple in 70 AD. [/QUOTE

And let us not forget that one Angel destroyed an army of 185,000.

 

[Endoscopy]

I disagree that the main issue is what is preached from the pulpit. The church as a whole proclaims the gospel.

Of course there will always be people who don't understand.

Romans 10 NIV
17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

 

[Dan_473]

If only by repeating a Creed by rote not really. After a while it becomes meaningless unless preached about from the pulpit. The Bible states that the it is by hearing of the gospel message we receive salvation. Not parroting it. A parrot only imitates sounds it hears. It doesn't understand it.

How a person recites the Nicene Creed, how they ponder it, is up to them.

I was discussing the question of whether only a few churches proclaim the gospel or many churches.

How a person responds to the proclamation is about them
John 12: 38. that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke, "Lord, who has believed our report? To whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?"

 

[posthuman]

Romans 10 NIV
17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

But to this day the LORD has not given you a heart to understand or eyes to see or ears to hear. ​

(Deuteronomy 29:4)​

​

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love Me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but He sent Me. Why do ye not understand My speech? even because ye cannot hear My word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.​

(John 8:42-44)​

​

The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, ​

the LORD hath made even both of them.​

(Proverbs 20:12)​

​

But ye believe not, because ye are not of My sheep, as I said unto you. ​

(John 10:26)​

​

The lot is cast into the lap; ​

but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD. ​

(Proverbs 16:33)​

 

[Endoscopy]

How a person recites the Nicene Creed, how they ponder it, is up to them.

I was discussing the question of whether only a few churches proclaim the gospel or many churches.

How a person responds to the proclamation is about them
John 12: 38. that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke, "Lord, who has believed our report? To whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?"

Unfortunately only a few. Just the sub denominations still preach the gospel message.

 

[Dan_473]

Unfortunately only a few. Just the sub denominations still preach the gospel message.

I hear you, and I disagree. The Nicene Creed contains a proclamation of the Gospel as it is described at the beginning of 1st Corinthians 15. Many churches say the Creed, as I've listed above.

Peace be with you!

 

[Endoscopy]

I hear you, and I disagree. The Nicene Creed contains a proclamation of the Gospel as it is described at the beginning of 1st Corinthians 15. Many churches say the Creed, as I've listed above.

Peace be with you!

How is it possible for the gospel to be preached by secular ministers?

 

[Endoscopy]

The major denominations were taken over by secular ministers by 1932. Gary North wrote the book "Crossed Fingers" documenting Presbyterian USA being taken over by 1932. He asserted the rest of the major denominations were taken over as well. I have the book and read it. Only the sub denominations still preach the gospel message. 30 years ago I talked to a minister in it and he was angry and was trying to reverse it. He failed.

 

[Endoscopy]

I hear you, and I disagree. The Nicene Creed contains a proclamation of the Gospel as it is described at the beginning of 1st Corinthians 15. Many churches say the Creed, as I've listed above.

Peace be with you!

The word is preached and those hearing the word can respond to it. Without hearing the word there is no salvation. That is what the Bible says. It says nothing about things like the creeds being able to provide salvation.

 

[Dan_473]

How is it possible for the gospel to be preached by secular ministers?

The gospel is proclaimed by the people saying the Creed, both the preachers and the people sitting in the pews.

Also, we have this idea
Philippians 1: 15. Some indeed preach Christ even out of envy and strife, and some also out of good will. 16. The former insincerely preach Christ from selfish ambition, thinking that they add affliction to my chains; 17. but the latter out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the Good News. 18. What does it matter? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed.
I rejoice in this, yes, and will rejoice.

 

[Dan_473]

The word is preached and those hearing the word can respond to it. Without hearing the word there is no salvation. That is what the Bible says. It says nothing about things like the creeds being able to provide salvation.

The Creeds do not provide salvation. But if you are saying the Nicene Creed, you are also proclaiming the gospel as it is laid out at the beginning of 1st Corinthians 15.

Yes it is true that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God! I don't think this means that a person must hear the entire Bible before they can be saved.

Paul gives a brief summary of The Gospel at the beginning of 1st Corinthians 15. If you were to give a brief summary of The Gospel, would it be significantly different than what Paul wrote?

 

[Endoscopy]

The Creeds do not provide salvation. But if you are saying the Nicene Creed, you are also proclaiming the gospel as it is laid out at the beginning of 1st Corinthians 15.

Yes it is true that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God! I don't think this means that a person must hear the entire Bible before they can be saved.

Paul gives a brief summary of The Gospel at the beginning of 1st Corinthians 15. If you were to give a brief summary of The Gospel, would it be significantly different than what Paul wrote?

The purpose of the creeds is to define what a Christian must believe. It was originally used for evangelism. Remember when the creeds were written in 212 to 500 there was no printing press. Therefore Bibles were very expensive and rare. Back then people memorized long passages of texts as part of education. With the creeds and memorized sections of scripture evangelism and Christian education were done.

 

[Endoscopy]

The Creeds do not provide salvation. But if you are saying the Nicene Creed, you are also proclaiming the gospel as it is laid out at the beginning of 1st Corinthians 15.

Yes it is true that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God! I don't think this means that a person must hear the entire Bible before they can be saved.

Paul gives a brief summary of The Gospel at the beginning of 1st Corinthians 15. If you were to give a brief summary of The Gospel, would it be significantly different than what Paul wrote?

The gospel message with scripture references being told to people who hear the word of God and make a decision about it. Thus salvation coming by hearing the word. Creeds and scripture references are used to tell the unbelievers in order to convert them. Creeds define what a Christian must believe.

 

[kaylagrl]

The word is preached and those hearing the word can respond to it. Without hearing the word there is no salvation. That is what the Bible says. It says nothing about things like the creeds being able to provide salvation.

No, that's simply not true. Hundreds and thousands have come to the Lord not having a Bible in their hands. People have been saved though dreams and visions. People have been saved in bars,in motels, a million different places. Creeds are our doctrines and they contain truths within that lead to salvation. They are important,if you don't know your doctrines you will believe errors and fall into heresy.

 

[louis]

Basically means God is limited is this backed up with scripture?

Mark 10:27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

 

[Endoscopy]

No, that's simply not true. Hundreds and thousands have come to the Lord not having a Bible in their hands. People have been saved though dreams and visions. People have been saved in bars,in motels, a million different places. Creeds are our doctrines and they contain truths within that lead to salvation. They are important,if you don't know your doctrines you will believe errors and fall into heresy.

Romans 10 NIV
17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

 

[kaylagrl]

Romans 10 NIV
17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

I know the Bible. It doesn't say people cannot be saved without a Bible in hand. The criminal on the cross had no Bible in hand. It say so is quite silly. God can speak to a heart,the Holy Spirit moves on a person and they are saved. Thousands upon thousands around the world have no access to a Bible and yet have become saved. Missionaries testify to this. There are people who have received salvation during the last moments of their life never having had a Bible and are in heaven today.

 

[Dan_473]

The purpose of the creeds is to define what a Christian must believe. It was originally used for evangelism. Remember when the creeds were written in 212 to 500 there was no printing press. Therefore Bibles were very expensive and rare. Back then people memorized long passages of texts as part of education. With the creeds and memorized sections of scripture evangelism and Christian education were done.

"The purpose of the creeds is to define what a Christian must believe."
I don't doubt it. And while reciting the Nicene Creed, a church is also proclaiming the gospel as it is described in the beginning of 1st Corinthians 15.

 

[Dan_473]

The gospel message with scripture references being told to people who hear the word of God and make a decision about it. Thus salvation coming by hearing the word. Creeds and scripture references are used to tell the unbelievers in order to convert them. Creeds define what a Christian must believe.

"The gospel message with scripture references being told to people who hear the word of God and make a decision about it."

If I'm understanding you right, this is your answer to the question:
If you were to give a brief summary of The Gospel, would it be significantly different than what Paul wrote?

It sounds to me like it is different. As I said before, if one uses a different statement of the Gospel, one will arrive at a different conclusion about whether it's many churches or a few churches that proclaim the gospel.