Name It and Claim It

dcontroversal · Feb 22, 2019

I made a typo and @TheLearner pointed it out my bad......the typo is fixed in bolded....I wrote Psalms instead of Isaiah ......Thanks LEARNER

Sure..that does not prove anything about his physical looks or strength....and read the ISAIAH 53 and be honest with the verbiage....I am sick of people what claim belief while rejecting the WORDS INSPIRED IN THE BIBLE while INSERTING OPINION.....

For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

toar: outline, form
Original Word: תֹּאַר
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: toar
Phonetic Spelling: (to'-ar)
Definition: outline, form

hadar: an ornament, honor, splendor
Original Word: הָדָר
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: hadar
Phonetic Spelling: (haw-dawr')
Definition: an ornament, honor, splendor

mareh: sight, appearance, vision
Original Word: מַרְאֶה
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: mareh
Phonetic Spelling: (mar-eh')
Definition: sight, appearance, vision

chamad: to desire, take pleasure in
Original Word: חָמַד
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: chamad
Phonetic Spelling: (khaw-mad')
Definition: to desire, take pleasure in

cv5 · Feb 22, 2019

dcontroversal said:

I made a typo and @TheLearner pointed it out my bad......the typo is fixed in bolded....I wrote Psalms instead of Isaiah ......Thanks LEARNER

Sure..that does not prove anything about his physical looks or strength....and read the ISAIAH 53 and be honest with the verbiage....I am sick of people what claim belief while rejecting the WORDS INSPIRED IN THE BIBLE while INSERTING OPINION.....

For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

toar: outline, form
Original Word: תֹּאַר
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: toar
Phonetic Spelling: (to'-ar)
Definition: outline, form

hadar: an ornament, honor, splendor
Original Word: הָדָר
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: hadar
Phonetic Spelling: (haw-dawr')
Definition: an ornament, honor, splendor

mareh: sight, appearance, vision
Original Word: מַרְאֶה
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: mareh
Phonetic Spelling: (mar-eh')
Definition: sight, appearance, vision

chamad: to desire, take pleasure in
Original Word: חָמַד
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: chamad
Phonetic Spelling: (khaw-mad')
Definition: to desire, take pleasure in

Hhmmmm sounds supportive of my thesis....

dcontroversal · Feb 23, 2019

cv5 said:

Not really....the verbiage points to a man with no beauty or FORM that would cause us to desire him in any way, shape or form........i see what you post and you have your head on straight on many things, why are you ignoring the verbiage of this verse which states openly that there was nothing about him outwardly that would cause anyone to desire him.....?

He was not good looking, not muscular, not tall etc.......Nothing physical about him would cause us to desire him

AllenW · Feb 23, 2019

I went to a WOF meeting last night at a neighbor's house.
They were studying a book, not the Bible.
They take their prayers straight to God the Father, bypassing Jesus,
They've learned that they are sons of God, just like Jesus.
They kept giving testimonies about healings, healings because they are faithful tithers.
Tithing is a big part of WOF.
It seems no one has interest in the Bible.
Only the Bible leader could quote the Bible except for the WOF verses they use.
They most all knew them.

I kept quiet the whole evening.
I won't be going back.

cv5 · Feb 23, 2019

AllenW said:

I just saw a TV commercial where the WOF nutter Peter Popoff is selling bogus holy water in some kind of ponzi scheme and all of his followers are testifying that they are getting filthy rich exploiting the hapless customers aka victims. Appalling and disgusting.

know1 · Feb 23, 2019

Absolutely said:

How did you come to know the truth concerning the word of faith?
Yes, those who disagree with WOF say they believe the bible and claim to know all about the subject, but when you try to get them to expound on certain promises, suddenly the subject gets changed to the natural or so-called real world.
What they don't know is that the word of God does the same thing today as it did with all the worlds in existence today, it CREATES the world around you, making the unseen realities manifest in the natural. Just like it says in Hebrews 11:1
If the word of God is truth, as it is written, and that truth conflicts with the works of the god of this world, or the natural world, which reality should we believe, receive, and walk in? The lie of the natural world or the truth of God's word?
The devil isn't called the god of the natural world for nothing, and it isn't because he can affect the minds of people. God and the angels do the same. It is because he uses a lie to create natural disasters in people's lives through sicknesses and other calamities.
The bible calls these event, lies of the devil.
So a believer should reject these lies and accept God's truth to create a good reality that lines up with His word.
Those who don't believe the promises of God always point to what others have done or said. They never point out the truths in scripture. They can't, otherwise they would be exposed and have to admit they missed it and propagated a lie.
They unwittingly call God a liar while vilifying His word and the blessings that come from the promises.
If you hate the truth, how can you claim to love God?
It is always nice to hear what a true believer thinks and that is why I enjoyed your post. Thanks.

know1 · Feb 23, 2019

AllenW said:

Joh 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

You make this sound like it's a bad thing.
Are you getting paid from a Russian troll farm or from the world elitists?
The thread itself was base on hate and division.
How dare anyone accuse you of not having enough faith.
Seriously?
I'm sure you believe you are not perfect or one who knows it all, maybe even a sinner saved by grace. So why do you now claim to be prefect, not being at fault, or having any sin of doubting the word of God, when that is all you perpetually spew out?
I get to know the trees by the fruit they produce, and yours is that of doubt and hate. I don't see anything that indicates you have God's faith.
From what I have read, it looks like you have zero faith. Maybe a wolf in sheep's clothing.
I think you don't even know what faith is, and I know you don't know how it works.
You started a thread about people condemning doubters, like you, of not having enough faith, so why don't you show scripturally how they, and myself included, are wrong.
How can you prove that you yourself are not at fault for all the failures in your life?
Why does it always have to be God or His will that might be the problem.
If you are so concerned about God's will being done then you should gladly accept the afflictions or problems, instead of fighting it.
So what is your reasoning as to why you think you have the faith for healing or whatnot?
Why is it a bad thing for a WOFer to say you don't have enough faith?

TheLearner · Feb 23, 2019

know1 said:

The highlighted parts are exactly what I was taught in Christian Science.

Hebrews 10:35-12:3 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
35 So don’t lose the courage that you had in the past. Your courage will be rewarded richly. 36 You must be patient. After you have done what God wants, you will get what he promised you. 37 He says,

“Very soon now, the one who is coming
will come and will not be late.
38 The person who is right with me
will live by trusting in me.
But I will not be pleased with the one
who turns back in fear.”

39 But we are not those who turn back and are lost. No, we are the people who have faith and are saved.

Faith
11 Faith is what makes real the things we hope for. It is proof of what we cannot see. 2 God was pleased with the people who lived a long time ago because they had faith like this.

3 Faith helps us understand that God created the whole world by his command. This means that the things we see were made by something that cannot be seen.

4 Cain and Abel both offered sacrifices to God. But Abel offered a better sacrifice to God because he had faith. God said he was pleased with what Abel offered. And so God called him a good man because he had faith. Abel died, but through his faith he is still speaking.

5 Enoch was carried away from this earth, so he never died. The Scriptures tell us that before he was carried off, he was a man who pleased God. Later, no one knew where he was, because God had taken Enoch to be with him. This all happened because he had faith. 6 Without faith no one can please God. Whoever comes to God must believe that he is real and that he rewards those who sincerely try to find him.

7 Noah was warned by God about things that he could not yet see. But he had faith and respect for God, so he built a large boat to save his family. With his faith, Noah showed that the world was wrong. And he became one of those who are made right with God through faith.

8 God called Abraham to travel to another place that he promised to give him. Abraham did not know where that other place was. But he obeyed God and started traveling because he had faith. 9 Abraham lived in the country that God promised to give him. He lived there like a visitor who did not belong. He did this because he had faith. He lived in tents with Isaac and Jacob, who also received the same promise from God. 10 Abraham was waiting for the city[a] that has real foundations. He was waiting for the city that is planned and built by God.

11 Sarah was not able to have children, and Abraham was too old. But he had faith in God, trusting him to do what he promised. And so God made them able to have children. 12 Abraham was so old he was almost dead. But from that one man came as many descendants as there are stars in the sky. So many people came from him that they are like grains of sand on the seashore.

13 All these great people continued living with faith until they died. They did not get the things God promised his people. But they were happy just to see those promises coming far in the future. They accepted the fact that they were like visitors and strangers here on earth. 14 When people accept something like that, they show they are waiting for a country that will be their own. 15 If they were thinking about the country they had left, they could have gone back. 16 But they were waiting for a better country—a heavenly country. So God is not ashamed to be called their God. And he has prepared a city for them.

17-18 God tested Abraham’s faith. God told him to offer Isaac as a sacrifice. Abraham obeyed because he had faith. He already had the promises from God. And God had already said to him, “It is through Isaac that your descendants will come.” But Abraham was ready to offer his only son. He did this because he had faith. 19 He believed that God could raise people from death. And really, when God stopped Abraham from killing Isaac, it was as if he got him back from death.

20 Isaac blessed the future of Jacob and Esau. He did that because he had faith. 21 And Jacob, also because he had faith, blessed each one of Joseph’s sons. He did this while he was dying, leaning on his rod and worshiping God.

22 And when Joseph was almost dead, he spoke about the people of Israel leaving Egypt. And he told them what they should do with his body. He did this because he had faith.

23 And the mother and father of Moses hid him for three months after he was born. They did this because they had faith. They saw that Moses was a beautiful baby. And they were not afraid to disobey the king’s order.

24-25 Moses grew up and became a man. He refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter. He chose not to enjoy the pleasures of sin that last such a short time. Instead, he chose to suffer with God’s people. He did this because he had faith. 26 He thought it was better to suffer for the Messiah than to have all the treasures of Egypt. He was waiting for the reward that God would give him.

27 Moses left Egypt because he had faith. He was not afraid of the king’s anger. He continued strong as if he could see the God no one can see. 28 Moses prepared the Passover and spread the blood on the doorways of the people of Israel, so that the angel of death[c] would not kill their firstborn sons. Moses did this because he had faith.

29 And God’s people all walked through the Red Sea as if it were dry land. They were able to do this because they had faith. But when the Egyptians tried to follow them, they were drowned.

30 And the walls of Jericho fell because of the faith of God’s people. They marched around the walls for seven days, and then the walls fell.

31 And Rahab, the prostitute, welcomed the Israelite spies like friends. And because of her faith, she was not killed with the ones who refused to obey.

32 Do I need to give you more examples? I don’t have enough time to tell you about Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel, and the prophets. 33 All of them had great faith. And with that faith they defeated kingdoms. They did what was right, and God helped them in the ways he promised. With their faith some people closed the mouths of lions. 34 And some were able to stop blazing fires. Others escaped from being killed with swords. Some who were weak were made strong. They became powerful in battle and defeated other armies. 35 There were women who lost loved ones but got them back when they were raised from death. Others were tortured but refused to accept their freedom. They did this so that they could be raised from death to a better life. 36 Some were laughed at and beaten. Others were tied up and put in prison. 37 They were killed with stones. They were cut in half. They were killed with swords. The only clothes some of them had were sheepskins or goatskins. They were poor, persecuted, and treated badly by others. 38 The world was not good enough for these great people. They had to wander in deserts and mountains, living in caves and holes in the ground.

39 God was pleased with all of them because of their faith. But not one of them received God’s great promise. 40 God planned something better for us. He wanted to make us perfect. Of course, he wanted those great people to be made perfect too, but not before we could all enjoy that blessing together.

We Also Should Follow Jesus’ Example
12 We have all these great people around us as examples. Their lives tell us what faith means. So we, too, should run the race that is before us and never quit. We should remove from our lives anything that would slow us down and the sin that so often makes us fall. 2 We must never stop looking to Jesus. He is the leader of our faith, and he is the one who makes our faith complete. He suffered death on a cross. But he accepted the shame of the cross as if it were nothing because of the joy he could see waiting for him. And now he is sitting at the right side of God’s throne. 3 Think about Jesus. He patiently endured the angry insults that sinful people were shouting at him. Think about him so that you won’t get discouraged and stop trying.

TheLearner · Feb 23, 2019

John 16 King James Version (KJV)
16 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.

2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

4 But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you.

5 But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou?

6 But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart.

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

17 Then said some of his disciples among themselves, What is this that he saith unto us, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me: and, Because I go to the Father?

18 They said therefore, What is this that he saith, A little while? we cannot tell what he saith.

19 Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me?

20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.

21 A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.

22 And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.

23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.

26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:

27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

29 His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.

30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

31 Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe?

32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.

33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Who is this all addressed to in the context?

TheLearner · Feb 23, 2019

John 1 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
Christ Comes to the World
1 Before the world began, the Word[a] was there. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was there with God in the beginning. 3 Everything was made through him, and nothing was made without him. 4 In him there was life, and that life was a light for the people of the world. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not defeated[c] it.

6 There was a man named John, who was sent by God. 7 He came to tell people about the light. Through him all people could hear about the light and believe. 8 John was not the light. But he came to tell people about the light. 9 The true light was coming into the world. This is the true light that gives light to all people.

10 The Word was already in the world. The world was made through him, but the world did not know him. 11 He came to the world that was his own. And his own people did not accept him. 12 But some people did accept him. They believed in him, and he gave them the right to become children of God. 13 They became God’s children, but not in the way babies are usually born. It was not because of any human desire or plan. They were born from God himself.

14 The Word became a man and lived among us. We saw his divine greatness—the greatness that belongs to the only Son of the Father. The Word was full of grace and truth. 15 John told people about him. He said loudly, “This is the one I was talking about when I said, ‘The one who is coming after me is greater than I am, because he was living before I was even born.’”

16 Yes, the Word was full of grace and truth, and from him we all received one blessing after another.[d] 17 That is, the law was given to us through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God. The only Son is the one who has shown us what God is like. He is himself God and is very close to the Father.

TheLearner · Feb 23, 2019

Romans 8 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
Life in the Spirit
8 So now anyone who is in Christ Jesus is not judged guilty. 2 That is because in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit that brings life made you[a] free. It made you free from the law that brings sin and death. 3 The law was without power because it was made weak by our sinful selves. But God did what the law could not do: He sent his own Son to earth with the same human life that everyone else uses for sin. God sent him to be an offering to pay for sin. So God used a human life to destroy sin. 4 He did this so that we could be right just as the law said we must be. Now we don’t live following our sinful selves. We live following the Spirit.

5 People who live following their sinful selves think only about what they want. But those who live following the Spirit are thinking about what the Spirit wants them to do. 6 If your thinking is controlled by your sinful self, there is spiritual death. But if your thinking is controlled by the Spirit, there is life and peace. 7 Why is this true? Because anyone whose thinking is controlled by their sinful self is against God. They refuse to obey God’s law. And really they are not able to obey it. 8 Those who are ruled by their sinful selves cannot please God.

9 But you are not ruled by your sinful selves. You are ruled by the Spirit, if that Spirit of God really lives in you. But whoever does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to Christ. 10 Your body will always be dead because of sin. But if Christ is in you, then the Spirit gives you life, because Christ made you right with God. 11 God raised Jesus from death. And if God’s Spirit lives in you, he will also give life to your bodies that die. Yes, God is the one who raised Christ from death, and he will raise you to life through his Spirit living in you.

12 So, my brothers and sisters, we must not be ruled by our sinful selves. We must not live the way our sinful selves want. 13 If you use your lives to do what your sinful selves want, you will die spiritually. But if you use the Spirit’s help to stop doing the wrong things you do with your body, you will have true life.

14 The true children of God are those who let God’s Spirit lead them. 15 The Spirit that we received is not a spirit that makes us slaves again and causes us to fear. The Spirit that we have makes us God’s chosen children. And with that Spirit we cry out, “ Abba, Father.” 16 And the Spirit himself speaks to our spirits and makes us sure that we are God’s children. 17 If we are God’s children, we will get the blessings God has for his people. He will give us all that he has given Christ. But we must suffer like Christ suffered. Then we will be able to share his glory.

We Will Have Glory in the Future
18 We have sufferings now, but these are nothing compared to the great glory that will be given to us. 19 Everything that God made is waiting with excitement for the time when he will show the world who his children are. The whole world wants very much for that to happen. 20 Everything God made was allowed to become like something that cannot fulfill its purpose. That was not its choice, but God made it happen with this hope in view: 21 That the creation would be made free from ruin—that everything God made would have the same freedom and glory that belong to God’s children.

22 We know that everything God made has been waiting until now in pain like a woman ready to give birth to a child. 23 Not only the world, but we also have been waiting with pain inside us. We have the Spirit as the first part of God’s promise. So we are waiting for God to finish making us his own children. I mean we are waiting for our bodies to be made free. 24 We were saved to have this hope. If we can see what we are waiting for, that is not really hope. People don’t hope for something they already have. 25 But we are hoping for something we don’t have yet, and we are waiting for it patiently.

26 Also, the Spirit helps us. We are very weak, but the Spirit helps us with our weakness. We don’t know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit himself speaks to God for us. He begs God for us, speaking to him with feelings too deep for words. 27 God already knows our deepest thoughts. And he understands what the Spirit is saying, because the Spirit speaks for his people in the way that agrees with what God wants.

28 We know that in everything God works for the good of those who love him. These are the people God chose, because that was his plan. 29 God knew them before he made the world. And he decided that they would be like his Son. Then Jesus would be the firstborn of many brothers and sisters. 30 God planned for them to be like his Son. He chose them and made them right with him. And after he made them right, he gave them his glory.

God’s Love in Christ Jesus
31 So what should we say about this? If God is for us, no one can stand against us. And God is with us. 32 He even let his own Son suffer for us. God gave his Son for all of us. So now with Jesus, God will surely give us all things. 33 Who can accuse the people God has chosen? No one! God is the one who makes them right. 34 Who can say that God’s people are guilty? No one! Christ Jesus died for us, but that is not all. He was also raised from death. And now he is at God’s right side, speaking to him for us. 35 Can anything separate us from Christ’s love? Can trouble or problems or persecution separate us from his love? If we have no food or clothes or face danger or even death, will that separate us from his love? 36 As the Scriptures say,

“For you we are in danger of death all the time.
People think we are worth no more than sheep to be killed.”

37 But in all these troubles we have complete victory through God, who has shown his love for us. 38-39 Yes, I am sure that nothing can separate us from God’s love—not death, life, angels, or ruling spirits. I am sure that nothing now, nothing in the future, no powers, nothing above us or nothing below us—nothing in the whole created world—will ever be able to separate us from the love God has shown us in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

TheLearner · Feb 23, 2019

Galatians 4:5
To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Galatians 4 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
4 This is what I am saying: When young children inherit all that their father owned, they are still no different from his slaves. It doesn’t matter that they own everything. 2 While they are children, they must obey those who are chosen to care for them. But when they reach the age the father set, they are free. 3 It is the same for us. We were once like children, slaves to the useless rules[a] of this world. 4 But when the right time came, God sent his Son, who was born from a woman and lived under the law. 5 God did this so that he could buy the freedom of those who were under the law. God’s purpose was to make us his children.

6 Since you are now God’s children, he has sent the Spirit of his Son into your hearts. The Spirit cries out, “ Abba, Father.” 7 Now you are not slaves like before. You are God’s children, and you will receive everything he promised his children.

Paul’s Love for the Galatian Believers
8 In the past you did not know God. You were slaves to gods that were not real. 9 But now you know the true God. Really, though, it is God who knows you. So why do you turn back to the same kind of weak and useless rules you followed before? Do you want to be slaves to those things again? 10-11 It worries me that you follow teachings about special days, months, seasons, and years. I fear that my work for you has been wasted.

12 Brothers and sisters, I became like you. So please become like me. You were very good to me before. 13 You know that I came to you the first time because I was sick. That was when I told the Good News to you. 14 My sickness was a burden to you, but you did not stop showing me respect or make me leave. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel from God. You accepted me as if I were Jesus Christ himself! 15 You were very happy then. Where is that joy now? I can say without a doubt that you would have done anything to help me. If it had been possible, you would have taken out your own eyes and given them to me. 16 Am I now your enemy because I tell you the truth?

17 Those people[c] are working hard to persuade you, but this is not good for you. They want to persuade you to turn against us and work hard for them. 18 It is good for you to work hard, of course, if it is for something good. That’s something you should do whether I am there or not. 19 My little children, I am in pain again over you, like a mother giving birth. I will feel this pain until people can look at you and see Christ. 20 I wish I could be with you now. Then maybe I could change the way I am talking to you. Now I don’t know what to do about you.

The Example of Hagar and Sarah
21 Some of you people want to be under the law. Tell me, do you know what the law says? 22 The Scriptures say that Abraham had two sons. The mother of one son was a slave woman, and the mother of the other son was a free woman. 23 Abraham’s son from the slave woman was born in the normal human way. But the son from the free woman was born because of the promise God made to Abraham.

24 This true story makes a picture for us. The two women are like the two agreements between God and his people. One agreement is the law that God made on Mount Sinai. The people who are under this agreement are like slaves. The mother named Hagar is like that agreement. 25 So Hagar is like Mount Sinai in Arabia. She is a picture of the earthly Jewish city of Jerusalem. This city is a slave, and all its people are slaves to the law. 26 But the heavenly Jerusalem that is above is like the free woman, who is our mother. 27 The Scriptures say,

“Be happy, woman—you who cannot have children.
Be glad you never gave birth.
Shout and cry with joy!
You never felt those labor pains.
The woman who is alone[d] will have more children
than the woman who has a husband.”

28 My brothers and sisters, you are children who were born because of God’s promise, just as Isaac was. 29 But the other son of Abraham, who was born in the normal way, caused trouble for the one who was born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same today. 30 But what do the Scriptures say? “Throw out the slave woman and her son! The son of the free woman will receive everything his father has, but the son of the slave woman will receive nothing.”[e] 31 So, my brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman. We are children of the free woman.

TheLearner · Feb 23, 2019

Ephesians 1:5
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Ephesians 1 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
1 Greetings from Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus. I am an apostle because that is what God wanted.

To God’s holy people living in Ephesus,[a] believers who belong to Christ Jesus.

2 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Spiritual Blessings in Christ
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. In Christ, God has given us every spiritual blessing in heaven. 4 In Christ, he chose us before the world was made. He chose us in love to be his holy people—people who could stand before him without any fault. 5 And before the world was made, God decided to make us his own children through Jesus Christ. This was what God wanted, and it pleased him to do it. 6 And this brings praise to God because of his wonderful grace. God gave that grace to us freely. He gave us that grace in Christ, the one he loves.

7 In Christ we are made free by his blood sacrifice. We have forgiveness of sins because of God’s rich grace. 8 God gave us that grace fully and freely. With full wisdom and understanding 9 he let us know his secret plan. This was what God wanted, and he planned to do it through Christ. 10 God’s goal was to finish his plan when the right time came. He planned that all things in heaven and on earth be joined together with Christ as the head.

11 In Christ we were chosen to be God’s people. God had already planned for us to be his people, because that is what he wanted. And he is the one who makes everything agree with what he decides and wants. 12 We Jews were the first to hope in Christ. And we were chosen so that we would bring praise to God in all his glory. 13 It is the same with you. You heard the true message, the Good News about the way God saves you. When you heard that Good News, you believed in Christ. And in Christ, God put his special mark on you by giving you the Holy Spirit that he promised. 14 The Spirit is the first payment that guarantees we will get all that God has for us. Then we will enjoy complete freedom as people who belong to him. The goal for all of us is the praise of God in all his glory.

Paul’s Prayer
15-16 That is why I always remember you in my prayers and thank God for you. I have done this ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all of God’s people. 17 I always pray to the great and glorious Father, the God of our Lord Jesus Christ. I pray that he will give you the Spirit, who will let you know truths about God and help you understand them, so that you will know him better.

18 I pray that God will open your minds to see his truth. Then you will know the hope that he has chosen us to have. You will know that the blessings God has promised his holy people are rich and glorious. 19 And you will know that God’s power is very great for us who believe. It is the same as the mighty power 20 he used to raise Christ from death and put him at his right side in the heavenly places. 21 He put Christ over all rulers, authorities, powers, and kings. He gave him authority over everything that has power in this world or in the next world. 22 God put everything under Christ’s power and made him head over everything for the church. 23 The church is Christ’s body. It is filled with him. He makes everything complete in every way.

TheLearner · Feb 23, 2019

2 Peter 1 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
1 Greetings from Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ.

To all of you who share in the same valuable faith that we have. This faith was given to us because our God and Savior Jesus Christ always does what is good and right.

2 Grace and peace be given to you more and more, because now you know God and Jesus our Lord.

God Has Given Us Everything We Need
3 Jesus has the power of God. And his power has given us everything we need to live a life devoted to God. We have these things because we know him. Jesus chose us by his glory and goodness, 4 through which he also gave us the very great and rich gifts that he promised us. With these gifts you can share in being like God. And so you will escape the ruin that comes to people in the world because of the evil things they want.

5 Because you have these blessings, do all you can to add to your life these things: to your faith add goodness; to your goodness add knowledge; 6 to your knowledge add self-control; to your self-control add patience; to your patience add devotion to God; 7 to your devotion add kindness toward your brothers and sisters in Christ, and to this kindness add love. 8 If all these things are in you and growing, you will never fail to be useful to God. You will produce the kind of fruit that should come from your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But those who don’t grow in these blessings are blind. They cannot see clearly what they have. They have forgotten that they were cleansed from their past sins.

10 My brothers and sisters, God called you and chose you to be his. Do your best to live in a way that shows you really are God’s called and chosen people. If you do all this, you will never fall. 11 And you will be given a very great welcome into the kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, a kingdom that never ends.

12 You already know these things. You are very strong in the truth you have. But I am always going to help you remember them. 13 While I am still living here on earth, I think it is right for me to remind you of them. 14 I know that I must soon leave this body. Our Lord Jesus Christ has shown me that. 15 I will try my best to make sure you remember these things even after I am gone.

We Saw Christ’s Glory
16 We told you about the power of our Lord Jesus Christ. We told you about his coming. The things we told you were not just clever stories that people invented. No, we saw the greatness of Jesus with our own eyes. 17 Jesus heard the voice of the great and glorious God. That was when he received honor and glory from God the Father. The voice said, “This is my Son, the one I love. I am very pleased with him.” 18 And we heard that voice. It came from heaven while we were with Jesus on the holy mountain.[a]

19 This makes us more sure about what the prophets said. And it is good for you to follow closely what they said, which is like a light shining in a dark place. You have that light until the day begins and the morning star brings new light to your minds. 20 Most important of all, you must understand this: No prophecy in the Scriptures comes from the prophet’s own understanding. 21 No prophecy ever came from what some person wanted to say. But people were led by the Holy Spirit and spoke words from God.

cv5 · Feb 23, 2019

know1 said:

How did you come to know the truth concerning the word of faith?
Yes, those who disagree with WOF say they believe the bible and claim to know all about the subject, but when you try to get them to expound on certain promises, suddenly the subject gets changed to the natural or so-called real world.
What they don't know is that the word of God does the same thing today as it did with all the worlds in existence today, it CREATES the world around you, making the unseen realities manifest in the natural. Just like it says in Hebrews 11:1
If the word of God is truth, as it is written, and that truth conflicts with the works of the god of this world, or the natural world, which reality should we believe, receive, and walk in? The lie of the natural world or the truth of God's word?
The devil isn't called the god of the natural world for nothing, and it isn't because he can affect the minds of people. God and the angels do the same. It is because he uses a lie to create natural disasters in people's lives through sicknesses and other calamities.
The bible calls these event, lies of the devil.
So a believer should reject these lies and accept God's truth to create a good reality that lines up with His word.
Those who don't believe the promises of God always point to what others have done or said. They never point out the truths in scripture. They can't, otherwise they would be exposed and have to admit they missed it and propagated a lie.
They unwittingly call God a liar while vilifying His word and the blessings that come from the promises.
If you hate the truth, how can you claim to love God?
It is always nice to hear what a true believer thinks and that is why I enjoyed your post. Thanks.

The WOF is manifested by their fruits: scams, ripoffs, payoffs, exploitation.

Its all over TV you can't miss it.....

AllenW · Feb 23, 2019

know1 said:

Joh 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

You make this sound like it's a bad thing.
Are you getting paid from a Russian troll farm or from the world elitists?
The thread itself was base on hate and division.
How dare anyone accuse you of not having enough faith.
Seriously?
I'm sure you believe you are not perfect or one who knows it all, maybe even a sinner saved by grace. So why do you now claim to be prefect, not being at fault, or having any sin of doubting the word of God, when that is all you perpetually spew out?
I get to know the trees by the fruit they produce, and yours is that of doubt and hate. I don't see anything that indicates you have God's faith.
From what I have read, it looks like you have zero faith. Maybe a wolf in sheep's clothing.
I think you don't even know what faith is, and I know you don't know how it works.
You started a thread about people condemning doubters, like you, of not having enough faith, so why don't you show scripturally how they, and myself included, are wrong.
How can you prove that you yourself are not at fault for all the failures in your life?
Why does it always have to be God or His will that might be the problem.
If you are so concerned about God's will being done then you should gladly accept the afflictions or problems, instead of fighting it.
So what is your reasoning as to why you think you have the faith for healing or whatnot?
Why is it a bad thing for a WOFer to say you don't have enough faith?

Jesus Christ is my God.
What's the name of yours?

know1 · Feb 23, 2019

TheLearner said:

Only I'm not of that religious. That to me is a religion, not a relationship.
I don't know what they teach, and no offense, but I don't care either.
I only care about finding the truth to what is written, without any bias.
Love God and love the word of God.
Just about everything I wrote, I can show you both where and how I got what I wrote, without twisting or perverting scripture.

know1 · Feb 23, 2019

cv5 said:

Specifically, what is written about WOF?
Is it of God, or of the devil?
If it is of the devil, then you are just in condemning it.
But if it of God, then you are calling God a liar, you don't believe the bible, and you hate both the truth and the word of God.

know1 · Feb 23, 2019

AllenW said:

That's an easy one, FATHER.
I thank, praise, and worship Jesus, but I pray to my Father.
Jesus is God the Son. He is His own person, even as the Holy Spirit and the Father are their own person.
Now, my definition of Person might be off, but the gist of it is that they are three separate beings cohabiting in one body, and Jesus is the body of God the Father, like our physical body is to us, because Jesus is the heart of God the Father.
And since Jesus is the heart of God, which makes Him part of the makeup of God, then Jesus is God also, like you heart is you, but He is not the Head, the Father is.
It is not one being or person playing different rolls.
They are three distinct beings, each with their own abilities and authority.
I received this revelation and more, from God alone. No man showed or told me any of what I learned about how both God and man are made. It was He who spoke to me about these things, but always with scripture to back up what He told me.
This He did repeatedly.
So, though God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are One, they, plural are three being with their own mind and are their own person.

know1 · Feb 24, 2019

ToastAndTea said:

It's easy for a wicked person to say, WOF is of the devil... especially when you don't use a single stitch of scripture to back up your claim.
Not only that, but the guy also stated that the bible WASN'T the word of God, and I quote, "God's word is not the bible, but that word that tells us mystically, spiritually what we should want."
And you listen to someone like this, who takes the word he gets internally OVER the word of God?
Do you even know if the person is born again?
I ask because if they are not, then neither do you know the source of that word they are giving you.
If anyone is a cult leader teaching doctrines of the devil, it's this John MacArther.
That is one reason why I disagreed with the wicked idiot.
The other is of course because he never use any scripture to prove Osteen wrong.
I personally don't listen to Osteen, but I suppose we agree on some things he teaches, at least from what I heard in the video.
There are obviously pastors out their who are secular unbelievers posting as a child of God, and their are those who think they are born again, but are not. When someone teaches others to put their feeling, experiences, testimonies, thoughts, and the like, BEFORE AND ABOVE the written word of God, we need to expose them for what they really are... a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

2Pe 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
2Pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
2Pe 1:18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

The bible IS OUR FOUNDATION, upon which we should build our faith.
The preachers of today, such as this macarther, are not "holy men of God...", that we should take their word OVER that of the bible.
I see both he and his teachings as evil and an abomination to God.

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