John Wesley/Methodist view on the thief on the cross

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SIMON55 said:
You don't even realize you reprimanded yourself with your own pasties.....
1. First you limit the holy spirit to what is audible
2. Then you revalidate it
3. Then you reprimanded yourself for believing yourself better because you heard the word and dont believe faith can come by seeing......
You're just all over the place.😀
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No, actually PennEd nailed it.
 
PennEd said:
I don't think we agree.

My faith comes from the Lord. This is an important point. Your posts are all about what YOU did and do.

BTW, why are you labeling yourself a caucasion? First off, I think we can all see that, ( Cool hairdo! you look like a Viking!) secondly, it's a little weird to put that in your profile.

But I digress. Where does YOUR faith come from?

Why do some hear and NOT believe, while others hear and DO believe? WHERE does YOUR faith come from?
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Some people might find it a little w
PennEd said:
I don't think we agree.

My faith comes from the Lord. This is an important point. Your posts are all about what YOU did and do.

BTW, why are you labeling yourself a caucasion? First off, I think we can all see that, ( Cool hairdo! you look like a Viking!) secondly, it's a little weird to put that in your profile.

But I digress. Where does YOUR faith come from?

Why do some hear and NOT believe, while others hear and DO believe? WHERE does YOUR faith come from?
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Some people might find reading profiles grasping for someting to criticize them about....
" A little weird "
Seondly it is the government that has labeled eveyone with their ethnicities not me.
Thirdly....if I choose to acknowledge the truth of what it is and not conceal it from anyone like the majority of unnamed faceless how is that creepier than the concealed faceless nameless majority?
Fourthly my profile was written before I had any Idea as to whether my image would even upload and would do so from my ptheir So fifthly what does it matter I don't misrepresent things even though there isn't anyway of confirming if anyones image is theirs.
And lastly what is the point in repeating the same questions that the answers have already been indicated for........?
Oh that's right you already indicated from the start you don't READ....the illiteracy must be why you keep condemning deaf people.
It must be good for you
that your pc or phone speaks text to you since you are blind.
 
preacher4truth said:
No, actually PennEd nailed it.
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Wrong hearing is not the only sense by which faith comes don't attach yourself to his Ignorance.....
People come to faith initially in different ways.....
Some by SEEING
GOD DO FOR THEM WHAT THEY CAN'T DO FOR THEMSELVES.....
Being ignorant and saying the power of the Holy Spirit or GOD is limited to one sense of understanding only condemns the deaf....
DO YOU HATE DEAF PEOPLE?
Get real hearing is not the only sense scripture indicates.
That OBSESSION is as bad as the RCC telling people they couldnt read scripture for themself....
 
SIMON55 said:
Wrong hearing is not the only sense by which faith comes don't attach yourself to his Ignorance.....
People come to faith initially in different ways.....
Some by SEEING
GOD DO FOR THEM WHAT THEY CAN'T DO FOR THEMSELVES.....
Being ignorant and saying the power of the Holy Spirit or GOD is limited to one sense of understanding only condemns the deaf....
DO YOU HATE DEAF PEOPLE?
Get real hearing is not the only sense scripture indicates.
That OBSESSION is as bad as the RCC telling people they couldnt read scripture for themself....
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Lol!!! You're just ate up with disdain and being all over the place, aren't ya??? Are you converted, something seems amiss?
 
SIMON55 said:
Are there blind people here insisting Faith only comes by hearing....because scripture says those who have
EYES TO SEE.....
I am confused are the blind condemning the deaf ?😀
So.....that would mean there would be no point in printing bibles in brail wouldn't it....?
Because they wouldn't receive any faith from seeing even if they had sight their eyes would still be useless.
Wonder why Christ kept telling everyone .....
" It is written "
Can you hear what is written when you put your ear to a scroll kind of like a seashell?
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When I read the word, the Scripture I’m reading is God’s voice speaking to me.
 
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preacher4truth said:
No, actually PennEd nailed it.
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ACTUALLY....if you believe his ignorance you don't believe your own scripture because it says......
People SAW miracles and came to believe.....
People SAW miracles and came to believe before Christ was ever crucified.....
People SAW the miracles before they could ever
HEAR
The unwritten gospels and
CAME TO BELIEVE
THE APOSTLES....... SAW
Things before they wrote them down AND CAME TO BELIEVE!!!
SEEING IS BELIEVING
.............you have heard
BUT I HAVE SEEN !!!
 
John146 said:
When I read the word, the Scripture I’m reading is God’s voice speaking to me.
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So.....If you weren't reading scripture and hearing things
And you weren't going to church and hearing things
And when you prayed you weren't hearing things.
BUT.......
1. You were carried away by the spirit to a heaven.
2. You SAW the hands of God
3. You SAW your own healing
4. You SAW your own baptisim
5. You SAW your own adoption
6. You SAW the unseen
YOU HEARD NOTHING
NOT A WORD SPOKEN
You would conclude to not believe it then because you heard no spoken word.
You have heard.
I SAW !
 
PennEd said:
No.

I'm pretty sure I got you.

You want to take credit and work for Salvation. I don't.

I want to give Jesus ALL the credit, and love Him for ALL HE HAS DONE.

I'll try one more time.

Where did the faith cone from that you believe?
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Last time I checked God deals faith in measure....except to Christ who was dealt faith without measure.....
 
I fully expect @SIMON55 to break out singing "Midnight Rider" by the Allman Brothers hahahahahahha

Simon....you remind me of them......and a dude I used to work with in Missouri.........

.....And I am bound to keep on riding
And I've got one more silver dollar
But I'm not gonna let them catch me, no
Not gonna let them catch the midnight rider.......

HAHA
 
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SIMON55 said:
Are there blind people here insisting Faith only comes by hearing....
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because, this is truth:

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
(Romans 10:17) ​

how did you know
who to pray to if you had never heard ?

& what John146 said:

John146 said:
When I read the word, the Scripture I’m reading is God’s voice speaking to me.
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you say God gave you a vision, Simon. wasn't He speaking to you by it?
 
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SIMON55 said:
People SAW miracles and came to believe.....
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actually, that part too :)

When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, "Surely He was the Son of God!" ​
(Matthew 27:54)​
​
God spoke to them through this -- and God creates with the word of His mouth
 
SIMON55 said:
So.....If you weren't reading scripture and hearing things
And you weren't going to church and hearing things
And when you prayed you weren't hearing things.
BUT.......
1. You were carried away by the spirit to a heaven.
2. You SAW the hands of God
3. You SAW your own healing
4. You SAW your own baptisim
5. You SAW your own adoption
6. You SAW the unseen
YOU HEARD NOTHING
NOT A WORD SPOKEN
You would conclude to not believe it then because you heard no spoken word.
You have heard.
I SAW !
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Experiences never trump God’s word.
 
Locoponydirtman said:
All the work of salvation is done by God himself.
The work of Jesus and his ministry, and his work of self sacrifice execution on the cross and resurrection.
The work of the Holy Spirit in the regenerate man. All the good works we see from a man is from the Holy Spirit, which are evidence of salvation, but not salvation it self.
So a re- examination of the fellow on the cross, shows faith granted by the Holy spirit resulting in repentance, and a work of the repented and regenerate man evidenced by another work of the the Holy Spirit, in the rebuke of the other criminal on the cross there along side.
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the thief, with the confession of his mouth, showed that he believes Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, the Lord of heaven and earth -

he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom"​
(Luke 23:42) ​

this doesn't come from man, but from God

“But what about you?” He asked. “Who do you say I am?”​
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the Living God.”​
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven."​
(Matthew 16:15-17) ​

this knowledge of God -- it doesn't come through, from or by the flesh of anyone

No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father ​
except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.​
(Matthew 11:27) ​

this knowledge - that the kingdom is Christ's, and that He goes to sit on the throne - that He is the Everlasting Father, having taken upon flesh - this is the rock upon which the church is built. the knowledge that He is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. and this knowledge, to know Him, is eternal life

this is eternal life: that they know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent. ​
(John 17:3) ​

this is salvation: to know Him: Yeshua, 'Yah is Salvation'
and this is a gift, not of works. no one can boast. no one knows Him except who He chooses to reveal Himself to -- and He is lifted up, just as the serpent in the wilderness, that we all may look to Him, and live! :)
 
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dcontroversal said:
Blessed are those that have not SEEN and yet BELIEVED.........
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Sure enough and which I also stated in respect to what I have seen....but I have seen so therefore I am unable to deny that truth....and I will not accept anyone telling me I had to hear before I could see....it was different than most for me God saw it fit that I should see before I could begin to hear....
I had my own out of body
Similar to Pauls experience wherin I cried out Father Abba in gratitude and baptism and adoption the only sounds were the waterfall of life the stream running off it birds and animals.....
Not a word spoken....
Nobody gets carried away out of their body wide awake with their eyes open to another place and sees the unseen things like I have and denies it .
 
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