Not By Works

[Goodnewsman]

Romans 3:23 - All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. All have been tempted and failed at times, but that is not the point here. Romans 6:23 - The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Judas' betrayal was ultimate betrayal and was final. That is not the same thing as being tempted and failing at times or falling and rising again, as with the 11 remaining disciples when Jesus was arrested. (Matthew 26:31-35)

Romans 8:30 - and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. Judas was neither justified or glorified, so there is no contradiction here with Romans 11:29.

Now what call are you talking about?

The call to be one of the first ordained apostles and preacher of the Gospel

And he goeth up into a mountain, and calleth unto him whom he would: and they came unto him. And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,
Mark 3:13‭-‬14 KJV

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Good morning


Was the call of God on the life of Judas to be one of the first ordained apostles

Is God omniscient? Did god not know Judas would never make it to the apsotleship?

Was the call of God on the life of Judas to be one of the first ordained apostles and preacher of the Gospel REVOKED????

Not trying to be mean or facetious but from previous posts it looked like you all stood in solidarity that the call of God was IRREVOCABLE???

Jesus called judas to follow him like he did many people. Who ended up following him

Only 11 known made it to the end of class, they rest failed and gave up.

I know your tring to make him saved. But you can’t apart from denying God knew what would happen,

And again, did Judas partake of the food which would endure to eternal life? Where one could eat and never die, live forever, never hunger or thirst?

Why did Judas hunger and thirst if he ate the food jesus offered?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Good morning

Good morning to you as well

 

[mailmandan]

The call to be one of the first ordained apostles and preacher of the Gospel

And he goeth up into a mountain, and calleth unto him whom he would: and they came unto him. And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,
Mark 3:13‭-‬14 KJV

Just because Judas, along with the other 11 disciples were summoned to be His 12 disciples does not mean that Judas was predestined and received the effectual call, was justified and to be glorified. *Apparently, not the same call that we read about in Romans 8:30 - and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. ALL of them. Was Judas justified? NO. Will the son of perdition be glorified? NO

You are not looking at scripture as a whole on this matter and are basing your arguments on faulty human logic.

 

[mailmandan]

The call to be one of the first ordained apostles and preacher of the Gospel

And he goeth up into a mountain, and calleth unto him whom he would: and they came unto him. And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,
Mark 3:13‭-‬14 KJV

Was that the effectual call of Romans 8:30? Obviously not. If Judas had received the effectual call, then he would be justified and ultimately glorified, but that was not the case for the son of perdition. So being called or summoned to be one of the 12 disciples is not the same thing as receiving the effectual call in Romans 8:30.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Good morning


Was the call of God on the life of Judas to be one of the first ordained apostles


Was the call of God on the life of Judas to be one of the first ordained apostles and preacher of the Gospel REVOKED????

Not trying to be mean or facetious but from previous posts it looked like you all stood in solidarity that the call of God was IRREVOCABLE???

Irrevocable - I love my kids, and will always, but they can still refuse to listen, share and take advice.

I have been told, Israel were all saved, because that was irrevocable.
Being executed, killed by snakes, plague, fire, the ground opening up is just Gods discipline.
Being blotted out of His book, is also just discipline.

I wonder as people are burnt in the lake of fire, maybe the meaning of irrevocable will sink in.
But by then it will be all too late.

for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you.
Rom 11:29-31

When a snake bites you on your ankle because of Gods judgement, do you think, Gods promise is
irrevocable therefore I will not die, or you look to the bronze snake to gain healing?

So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, he lived.
Num 21:9

People lived because of Gods provision of forgiveness and healing through the snake, not the original promise.

 

[GodsGrace101]

See there you go attacking people with slanderous lies again.

Breaking comandments is common place for you though, so i guess it just fits who you are

Why is that a lie?
UG is interested in JUSTIFICATION.
She does not seem to me to be interested in SANCTIFICATION.

If she was, she would:
1. Understand what it is.
2. Understand it's a two-way street between us and God.
3. Our COOPERATION is absolutely required for sanctification.

There can be no other way if one understands what it is.
And I'm not going to explain it again. Everyone on this thread should know what it is.
I think YOU do, so I'm not sure why you argue with me.

 

[Goodnewsman]

Is God omniscient? Did god not know Judas would never make it to the apsotleship?



Jesus called judas to follow him like he did many people. Who ended up following him

Only 11 known made it to the end of class, they rest failed and gave up.

I know your tring to make him saved. But you can’t apart from denying God knew what would happen,

And again, did Judas partake of the food which would endure to eternal life? Where one could eat and never die, live forever, never hunger or thirst?

Why did Judas hunger and thirst if he ate the food jesus offered?

Judas was an apostle.......what do you mean that Jesus knew he wouldn't make it to apostlship?????? He was an apostle according to mark 3

God knew you and I would betray him and yet he saved us???? Did he not???
Are we any better than Judas?

BTW....you still didn't answer my questions.

Was the call of God (mark 3) on Judas to be one of the first ordained apostles and preachers of the Gospel REVOKED???

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Judas was an apostle.......what do you mean that Jesus knew he wouldn't make it to apostlship?????? He was an apostle according to mark 3

I read mark 3, i do nothing t see the word apostle anywhwre,

What i see is he sent 12 disciples,

They were apostles in training, judas never made it to the final exam, he bailed.

God knew you and I would betray him and yet he saved us???? Did he not???
Are we any better than Judas?

I was born betraying jesus as were you as was judas,

I repented, ate the food which endures to eternal life, and now follow him (not perfectly)

How about you? Have you eaten that food? Did judas?

BTW....you still didn't answer my questions.

Was the call of God (mark 3) on Judas to be one of the first ordained apostles and preachers of the Gospel REVOKED???

Many are called few are chosen
Rom 8: says those who he called he justified, and will glorify, was judas justified (did he eat the bread) and will judas be glorified.

I think mailmandan answered your question quite well i can not add to what he said, and john 6 once again wouod be your savior, but you fail to understand it

Plus as i said earlier, he was called for one purpose, to fulfill prophesy so yes i did answer you, once again, you lied

 

[GodsGrace101]

It would not be eternal life then it would be conditional life

The words itself prove you wrong,

It IS conditional EG.
Look at these verses...how do YOU explain them away?
(there are many, many more BTW, which I will post if you ask.....
and if it would do any good for anyone.

Those who believe need no proof...
And to those who do NOT believe any amount of proof is useless....


“… only we who believe can enter His rest … but those who first heard this good news
failed to enter because they disobeyed God.” (Hebrews 4:3, 7)
Disobedience proves Unbelief --- Unbelief causes Disobedience

“And to whom was God speaking when he took an oath that they would never enter His rest?
Wasn’t it the people who disobeyed him? So we see that because of their unbelief
they were not able to enter his rest … so we ought to tremble with fear that some of
you might fail to experience it … IF we disobey God … we will fall.” (Hebrews 3:18 - 4:11)

“… make sure that your own hearts are not evil and unbelieving,
turning you away from the living God …
so that none of you will be deceived by sin
and hardened against God.” (Hebrews 3:12)
If we are deceived by sin (especially habitual sin), this can result in
departing from God with “an evil heart of unbelief” (Hebrews 3:12, NKJV).

“Do you not know that
if you present yourselves to anyone as as obedient slaves,
you are slaves of the one whom you obey,
either (slaves) of sin which leads to (eternal) death,
OR (slaves) of obedience leading too righteousness?” (Romans 6:16)
Slaves of obedience > eternal life --- Slaves of sin > eternal death


“Afterward they will receive the crown of life
that God has promised to those who love Him.” (James 1:12)
The “crown of life” means eternal life.

“You are truly my disciples, if you remain faithful to my teachings
… anyone who obeys my teachings will never die!” (John 8:31, 51)

“Therefore, go and make disciples … Teach these new disciples to
obey all the commands I have given you.” (Matthew 28:19-20)

“We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ.” (2 Cor. 10:5)

“To all who are victorious (overcomers) who obey Me to the very end,
to them I will give authority over all the nations.” (Revelation 2:26)

The church: “all who keep God’s commandments and
maintain their testimony for Jesus.” (Revelation 12:17)

“So, you must live as God’s obedient children.” (1 Peter 1:14)


“If you love Me, obey My commandments.” (John 14:15)

“Those who accept My commandments and obey them are
the ones who love Me … All who love Me will do what I say.
Anyone who doesn’t love Me will not obey Me.” (John 14:21-24)

“When you obey My commandments, you remain in My love” (John 15:10)

“You are My friends, if you do what I command.” (John 15:14)

“We can be sure we know Him, if we obey His commandments” (1 John 2:3)

“He who keeps His commandments abides in Him and He in him” (1 John 3:24)

“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love” (1 John 3:24)

“Loving God means keeping His commandments” (1 John 5:3)

“Love means doing what God has commanded us” (2 John 6)

 

[GodsGrace101]

Oh really?

Sanctifiction is living out what we already are ...new creations in Him

IF you're living out the new creation in you...
WHY and WHAT are we arguing about?
WHY don't you agree with me?

What do I say that bothers you so much IF you're walking with God?

And maybe you could explain how you understand sanctification a little better?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

BTW....you still didn't answer my questions.

If you continue to lie about people answering you will hurt yourself further.

Just because you do not like or disagree with their answer does not mean they did not answer you, so please stop bearing false witness against other people.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Ahaa.

did i understand right: You are saying that 1 john 5:13 means that if you believe now, you have the HOPE of eternal life, at that moment? but its not actually yet?

If thats the case. No wonder we disagree. We got a different view on the verse! I take it as, if you believe now, it means you have right now eternal life, wont ever end, since you know Jesus.
This also answers your question about perseveraanceof the saints: How to know you're REALLY elect? By 1 john 5:13 !

Check out Pres. of the Saints.
It states EXACTLY what I stated.
How will you know you're one of the elect IF YOU DO NOT PERSEVERE till the end?
Since it's God keeping you and you have nothing to do with it...
How can you be SURE you're one of them?
And did you know that God also, in that theology, tricks some into THINKING they're saved?
Look that up.
You'll have to do some of the work.
I'm not going to spend a lot of time posting links anymore.
Too busy.

But check it out.
It's TRUE.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

See there you go attacking people with slanderous lies again.
Breaking comandments is common place for you though, so i guess it just fits who you are

Slanderous lie - "You are not interested in sanctification"

In a conversation between two people, showing the other their preferences, how can this be a lie?
Of what benefit would it be to do this, but rather than to encourage the other party to engage.

And then to make doing this into the level of a sin worthy of hell.

This is like the rants of a mad dictator. You have offended me, off with your head, lol.
No joke, people have done this in the past, and will in the future.

Is this the fruits of the spirit?

the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control
Gal 5:22-23

Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.
1 Thess 5:11

Let us .... press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
Phil 3:14

 

[GodsGrace101]

Oh by continually slandering them with lies?


Good way to ignore what john said, you can not take away the fact he said whoever leaves was never of us, gnostic or not, it would never t make a difference if they were gmostic or not. Your just trying to get gnore what he said.

EG,

Because I don't agree with someone, it does not make my theology A LIE.
And as to the gnostics...you need to really study scripture.
And I really mean that sincerely.
There was a lot going on when ALL the books were written,,,but especially John since he lived so long.

Find out what was going on.
Do a study on Christian history.
You'll learn a lot of interesting stuff.

And if you think it's not necessary because the bible has become a fourth member of the Trninity for you....

Then at least refrain from arguing with me about things you know nothing about.

And I don't mean that in a mean way...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Slanderous lie - "You are not interested in sanctification"

In a conversation between two people, showing the other their preferences, how can this be a lie?
Of what benefit would it be to do this, but rather than to encourage the other party to engage.

And then to make doing this into the level of a sin worthy of hell.

This is like the rants of a mad dictator. You have offended me, off with your head, lol.
No joke, people have done this in the past, and will in the future.

Is this the fruits of the spirit?

the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control
Gal 5:22-23

Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.
1 Thess 5:11

Let us .... press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
Phil 3:14

Its a lie because it is a lie

She said people do not want to deal,with sanctificarion

If this is not true, then it is a lie, and by defenition, bearing false witness, which is a sin.

How legalists excuse each others sin just amazes me to no end.


And where did the thought someone would go to hell because they lied come from? Do you listen to people? No one has said this!

 

[Goodnewsman]

I read mark 3, i do nothing t see the word apostle anywhwre,

What i see is he sent 12 disciples,

They were apostles in training, judas never made it to the final exam, he bailed.


I was born betraying jesus as were you as was judas,

I repented, ate the food which endures to eternal life, and now follow him (not perfectly)

How about you? Have you eaten that food? Did judas?


Many are called few are chosen
Rom 8: says those who he called he justified, and will glorify, was judas justified (did he eat the bread) and will judas be glorified.

I think mailmandan answered your question quite well i can not add to what he said, and john 6 once again wouod be your savior, but you fail to understand it

Plus as i said earlier, he was called for one purpose, to fulfill prophesy so yes i did answer you, once again, you lied

The first few verses of Luke 17 Jesus is teaching about forgiving one another

Notice verse 5
And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.
Luke 17:4‭-‬5 KJV

 

[GodsGrace101]

i have already made up my mind, im just trying to understand you guys. I like to think of eternal life as...... well everlasting life.

Therefore the idea that it can 'stop' is just nonsensical.

But i wanna take a look at what you said: Eternal life is something we get afteer we die. Yet its spoken of in the present tense, as you quoted above, and then the condition is belief, right?

So I believe right now in Jesus, i got eternal life. (present tense in the verse).
I stop believing tomorrow, now i dont have eternal life.

^Was my life 'eternal' to begin with? You see that would work IF its like you said that we only get it after we die, but because the verse says HAVE (hath) eternal life. Not WILL have in the future, maybe.

You see my point there?

The verse says WE HAVE eternal life because we BELIEVE at that moment in Christ.

Listen to what Jesus said:

John 11:25-26
25Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,
26and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die.


From the above we can learn that HE WHO BELIEVES in Jesus will never die.
If you notice the word BELIEVES is ALWAYS in the present tense. It NEVER says "HE WHO BELIEVED" in me,,,,,No. The word believe is present tense...it means we must believe NOW and until we die.

Those who BELIEVE IN JESUS will never die.
But we have to ENDURE and believe until the end.

What if you stopped believing if Jesus, for whatever reason, 10 years from now.
According to what Jesus said above...Would you still be saved?

(however YOU have your theology to deal with, which is a problem for you)

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Lies, lies ....... lies

This reminds me of films in which the arch villain shouts as their empire crumbles around them.
The idea they could have done anything wrong could never be agreed with, because
of course they did it all wrong to benefit themselves, it was getting caught they hate.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The first few verses of Luke 17 Jesus is teaching about forgiving one another

Notice verse 5
And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.
Luke 17:4‭-‬5 KJV

So god called someone knowing he would become an antichrist

How far will you go,to,destroy gyour ds character?

Again, romans 8 answers your question, as does john 13, the reason judas was called.

And why do you continue to ignore john 6?