Not By Works

[FollowHisSteps]

JUDAS was an unbeliever and a THIEF who only followed Jesus, because HE THOUGHT THERE WOULD BE BIG MONEY, when JESUS set up the KINGDOM. He had to settle for 30 pieces of silver, when he found out that JESUS was NOT GOING TO SET UP THE KINGDOM, right there at that time,

Matthew 10:4 (ASV)
4 Simon the Cananaean, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

John 12:4-6 (HCSB)
4 Then one of His disciples, Judas Iscariot (who was about to betray Him), said,
5 “Why wasn’t this fragrant oil sold for 300 denarii and given to the poor?”
6 He didn’t say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief. He was in charge of the money-bag and would steal part of what was put in it.


HE would STEAL from the Money BAG ALL THE TIME.

PROVED BY HIS ACTS that HE WAS NEVER BORN AGAIN.

Judas followed Jesus for 3 years, partook in the ministry to a degree all the other disciples accepted him as
exactly like them.

It was a shock when he appeared leading the romans.
The very night of the last supper, nobody thought it was Judas the betrayer.

Why is it so hard to believe people can be so close to God yet betray Him?
Satan did. 1/3rd of heaven did.

Most believers know many in their church who they doubt know Jesus truly, and feel
they would betray Him. On this forum, in this discussion, many feel so and so is an
evil deceiver ....... So Judas is not so different from us at all, and where we are.

The pharisees saw the miracles, heard the words, saw the wisdom yet killed Jesus.

Our sin blinds us very quickly to our failures and weaknesses and judges others so
harshly we would happily see them burn in hell.

But to walk like Jesus, impossible, a deception.

Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.
1 cor 11:1

 

[mailmandan]

Called....chosen....... ordained by Jesus but you somehow know he never was saved

John 13:10 - Jesus said to him, “He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.” 11 For He knew the one who was betraying Him; for this reason He said, “Not all of you are clean.”

In regards to Judas being chosen, in John 13:18, we read - I do not speak concerning all of you. I know whom I have chosen; BUT that the scripture may be fulfilled, 'He who eats bread with Me has lifted up his heel against Me.' By Jesus choosing Judas, that does not mean that Judas was saved and Judas was not included in those "whom the Father gave to Jesus to be kept."

John 17:12 - While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled. John 18:9 - that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, "Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none." Jesus did not lose Judas. Judas was already lost. Judas was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus and Jesus knew it from the beginning (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11).

Syllogism

1. All given by the Father to Jesus are kept.
2. Judas was not kept.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father

Or, this way.

1. None of those given to Jesus by the Father will be lost by Jesus.
2. Judas is lost.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Did Jesus give Judas the power to cast out devils?

Was Judas not called chosen and ordained by Jesus to be an apostle?

Jesus knows the end from the beginning so yes he knew that Judas would betray him.

But Judas was not forced to betray Jesus. No more then Eve was forced to eat the forbidden fruit....... She was tempted and she fell to that temptation. This the acts 1 says "Judas by transgression fell"

Bible says Satan entered the heart of Judas when Jesus gave him the sop

I would argue that Peters sins was far worse than Judas!!

Peter stood by the fire looking at the savior and cursed saying "i don't know who HE is". Imagine how Jesus must have felt......

Judas betrayed Jesus
Peter denied Jesus

Betrayal......slams the door in my face
Denial........locks the door

Betrayal......stabs a knife in my back
Denial.....twists the knife

Only difference between Peter and Judas was that Peter wept bitterly no doubt repenting........Judas couldn't bare the thought of facing Jesus, although he could have gotten forgiveness as Peter did..

Watch Judas preach one of his best sermons to you and I.......as he takes the money back, throws it down....gives it back......he is preaching to me that sin doesn't pay what it promises

Judas had to exist to answer the point of revelation.
People are innocent of destruction, because if they had a chance they would choose Jesus.

Even the closest friend, who knew His heart, His desires, His aspirations yet would betray Him,
demonstrates the depths of our sin and lostness.

And in this still Jesus did not raise a finger of protest. Praise the Lord.

 

[Goodnewsman]

John 13:10 - Jesus said to him, “He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.” 11 For He knew the one who was betraying Him; for this reason He said, “Not all of you are clean.”

In regards to Judas being chosen, in John 13:18, we read - I do not speak concerning all of you. I know whom I have chosen; BUT that the scripture may be fulfilled, 'He who eats bread with Me has lifted up his heel against Me.' By Jesus choosing Judas, that does not mean that Judas was saved and Judas was not included in those "whom the Father gave to Jesus to be kept."

John 17:12 - While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled. John 18:9 - that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, "Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none." Jesus did not lose Judas. Judas was already lost. Judas was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus and Jesus knew it from the beginning (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11).

Syllogism

1. All given by the Father to Jesus are kept.
2. Judas was not kept.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father

Or, this way.

1. None of those given to Jesus by the Father will be lost by Jesus.
2. Judas is lost.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father.

Judas didn't have to do what he did....constantly i see Jesus reaching out to Judas trying to help him in scripture

Just as Jesus knew you and I would betray him, nevertheless he saved us...so it was with Judas

How could God give the "devil" power to cast out devil's...... remember Jesus was accused of casting out devil's by Beelzebub....he replied how can Satan cast out Satan......house divided against itself cannot stand

 

[Goodnewsman]

Judas followed Jesus for 3 years, partook in the ministry to a degree all the other disciples accepted him as
exactly like them.

It was a shock when he appeared leading the romans.
The very night of the last supper, nobody thought it was Judas the betrayer.

Why is it so hard to believe people can be so close to God yet betray Him?
Satan did. 1/3rd of heaven did.

Most believers know many in their church who they doubt know Jesus truly, and feel
they would betray Him. On this forum, in this discussion, many feel so and so is an
evil deceiver ....... So Judas is not so different from us at all, and where we are.

The pharisees saw the miracles, heard the words, saw the wisdom yet killed Jesus.

Our sin blinds us very quickly to our failures and weaknesses and judges others so
harshly we would happily see them burn in hell.

But to walk like Jesus, impossible, a deception.

Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.
1 cor 11:1

Amen....... sin Always looks worse on others then it does our self

 

[mailmandan]

What does scripture say about Judas Iscariot?

1. Judas was an unbeliever and is a devil.....John 6:64-71
2. Judas was spiritually unclean......John 13:11
3. Judas is lost and is the son of perdition.........John 17:12
4. Judas was not kept by Jesus........John 17:12; 18:9
5. Judas was a traitor.....Luke 6:16
6. Judas was a betrayer.....Multiple verses.
7. Judas was a thief and did not care for the poor........John 12:6
8. Judas was guilty of a greater sin.......John 19:11
9. Judas was influenced by Satan to betray Jesus.......John 13:2
10. Judas was entered by Satan.......Luke 22:3
11. Judas kills himself......Matthew 27:5
12. Judas' habitation to be desolate......Acts 1:20, Psalm 69:25

 

[mailmandan]

Judas didn't have to do what he did....constantly i see Jesus reaching out to Judas trying to help him in scripture

Just as Jesus knew you and I would betray him, nevertheless he saved us...so it was with Judas

How could God give the "devil" power to cast out devil's...... remember Jesus was accused of casting out devil's by Beelzebub....he replied how can Satan cast out Satan......house divided against itself cannot stand

Why wouldn't Jesus reach out and try to help Judas? Jesus is full of love and compassion and gave Judas every chance to receive Him. Nothing in scripture indicates that Judas was saved, but I suspect that you will continue to believe what you want to believe, regardless. In regards to casting out devils, the power is in Jesus' name and not in the person. Satan does not cast out Satan, but power in the name of Jesus does and the disciples worked as a team, so it was a group effort and nothing is mentioned about Judas himself actually casting out demons.

In Matthew 10:1, we see that Jesus gave His 12 disciples power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. Judas is included in the 12, yet Jesus referred to Judas as an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray Him. (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11). Apparently, Judas believed that Jesus' name has the power to cast out devils, but did not truly believe in His name and become a child of God (John 1:12), but instead was the son of perdition (John 17:12).

 

[FollowHisSteps]

What does scripture say about Judas Iscariot?

1. Judas was an unbeliever and is a devil.....John 6:64-71
2. Judas was spiritually unclean......John 13:11
3. Judas is lost and is the son of perdition.........John 17:12
4. Judas was not kept by Jesus........John 17:12; 18:9
5. Judas was a traitor.....Luke 6:16
6. Judas was a betrayer.....Multiple verses.
7. Judas was a thief and did not care for the poor........John 12:6
8. Judas was guilty of a greater sin.......John 19:11
9. Judas was influenced by Satan to betray Jesus.......John 13:2
10. Judas was entered by Satan.......Luke 22:3
11. Judas kills himself......Matthew 27:5
12. Judas' habitation to be desolate......Acts 1:20, Psalm 69:25

Is Judas so different from ourselves?
If you knew Judas in your congregation, could you still love them, because they might be Peter
and just need rounding off?

You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
Matt 5:43-45

You will hear people claiming Jesus is just saying this to show us how unloving we are and how
loving He is, and we will always hate our enemies.

But that is the enemy speaking. With Christs love within we will love our enemies and bless those
who persecute us just as the apostles did

We work hard with our own hands. When we are cursed, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it; when we are slandered, we answer kindly. Up to this moment we have become the scum of the earth, the refuse of the world.
1 Cor 4:12-13

Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
Eph 5:1-2

 

[BillG]

Thank you brother, God used you today to help me more than you'll ever know. I sat in my vehicle for nearly two hours typing what little I did through tears

What a blessing that all your kids are believers. That is a testimony of good kids and good parents

I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
3 John 1:4 KJV

We have 3 kids
Katelyn 19
Codey 20
Corey 9 going on 19 lol

I encouraged my daughter to write in a journal during there long stay at the hospital.......She said she looked over at my son and the dash was all around him and they were using the jaws of life to get him out and he had a woman by the hand and was praying for God to help the EMT's. Then he reached out to her hand and they prayed together.......man I could go on

Please pray for my daughter she fights alot of guilt due to all this....but it has certainly brought them even closer than they were

Again.....thanks

Love the verse you quoted.

I can only imagine the range of emotions you have all gone through.
I posted a few posts back that "God promises to work good in all things" that does not mean that what was bad he makes good. But he works good in it to conform us to the image of Jesus.

Through this also he brings emotional and spiritual healing.

Will certainly pray for you all.
I tend not to make promises because I know what I am like.
It's not unusual for me to forget then all of sudden it's laid upon me to pray.

God bless you all and bring healing and release upon you all.

Bill

 

[Goodnewsman]

Why wouldn't Jesus reach out and try to help Judas? Jesus is full of love and compassion and gave Judas every chance to receive Him. Nothing in scripture indicates that Judas was saved, but I suspect that you will continue to believe what you want to believe, regardless. In regards to casting out devils, the power is in Jesus' name and not in the person. Satan does not cast out Satan, but power in the name of Jesus does and the disciples worked as a team, so it was a group effort and nothing is mentioned about Judas himself actually casting out demons.

In Matthew 10:1, we see that Jesus gave His 12 disciples power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. Judas is included in the 12, yet Jesus referred to Judas as an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray Him. (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11). Apparently, Judas believed that Jesus' name has the power to cast out devils, but did not truly believe in His name and become a child of God (John 1:12), but instead was the son of perdition (John 17:12).

Judas failed to temptation just like you and I.

Have you ever betrayed the Lord?

Are you saying the call of God on Judas was REVOKED?????

I thought you guys stood in solidarity that The gifts and the call of God is IRREVOCABLE???

Which is it? Obviously you cannot have it both ways

 

[gb9]

Judas failed to temptation just like you and I.

Have you ever betrayed the Lord?

Are you saying the call of God on Judas was REVOKED?????

I thought you guys stood in solidarity that The gifts and the call of God is IRREVOCABLE???

Which is it? Obviously you cannot have it both ways

have what both ways?

judas was never a true believer. he only hung out with Jesus.

Scripture says that he took money out of the money box.

he stole money right in the presence of the Lord.

no true believer could do that.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Is Judas so different from ourselves?
If you knew Judas in your congregation, could you still love them, because they might be Peter
and just need rounding off?

You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
Matt 5:43-45

You will hear people claiming Jesus is just saying this to show us how unloving we are and how
loving He is, and we will always hate our enemies.

But that is the enemy speaking. With Christs love within we will love our enemies and bless those
who persecute us just as the apostles did

We work hard with our own hands. When we are cursed, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it; when we are slandered, we answer kindly. Up to this moment we have become the scum of the earth, the refuse of the world.
1 Cor 4:12-13

Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
Eph 5:1-2

Did Judas eat the bread which came from heaven, where everyone who ate will never die? Or did he taste it. Not like what he tasted, turned and instead of being with christ, came against him

Again you all need to study john 6,

 

[mailmandan]

Is Judas so different from ourselves?
If you knew Judas in your congregation, could you still love them, because they might be Peter
and just need rounding off?

You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
Matt 5:43-45

You will hear people claiming Jesus is just saying this to show us how unloving we are and how
loving He is, and we will always hate our enemies.

But that is the enemy speaking. With Christs love within we will love our enemies and bless those
who persecute us just as the apostles did

We work hard with our own hands. When we are cursed, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it; when we are slandered, we answer kindly. Up to this moment we have become the scum of the earth, the refuse of the world.
1 Cor 4:12-13

Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
Eph 5:1-2

There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers and Jesus knows the hearts of all men. Jesus showed love to Judas, even fully knowing from the beginning that Judas was a devil who would betray Him, so who am I to not show love towards Judas if he was in my congregation?

Of course we are to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us. Those who believe the gospel have received Christ through faith and have received the Holy Spirit and God's love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us. (Ephesians 1:13; Romans 5:5). 1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Love the verse you quoted.

I can only imagine the range of emotions you have all gone through.
I posted a few posts back that "God promises to work good in all things" that does not mean that what was bad he makes good. But he works good in it to conform us to the image of Jesus.

Through this also he brings emotional and spiritual healing.

Will certainly pray for you all.
I tend not to make promises because I know what I am like.
It's not unusual for me to forget then all of sudden it's laid upon me to pray.

God bless you all and bring healing and release upon you all.

Bill

Amen

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Judas failed to temptation just like you and I.

Have you ever betrayed the Lord?

Are you saying the call of God on Judas was REVOKED?????

I thought you guys stood in solidarity that The gifts and the call of God is IRREVOCABLE???

Which is it? Obviously you cannot have it both ways

Jesus called judas for one purpose and one purpose only

So that scripture may be fulfilled.

If judas ate the bread which came from heaven, he never would have done what he did, he was for the part of being a part of the glorious kingdom he envisioned, he was against the part of what jesus ultimate goal was.

 

[Goodnewsman]

have what both ways?

judas was never a true believer. he only hung out with Jesus.

Scripture says that he took money out of the money box.

he stole money right in the presence of the Lord.

no true believer could do that.

He did not start out as a thief. He was tempted to steal just like you and I are tempted.

Was Judas not called of God?

And he goeth up into a mountain, and calleth unto him whom he would: and they came unto him. And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,
Mark 3:13‭-‬14 KJV

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Did Judas eat the bread which came from heaven, where everyone who ate will never die? Or did he taste it. Not like what he tasted, turned and instead of being with christ, came against him
Again you all need to study john 6,

I pause to wonder. Am I saved in your eyes in the communion of the saints, or trying to prove myself destined to hell?

Or am I like yourself, a faithful servant of the King, wishing to testify to His saving work in my life and share His offer
with all who will listen?

For studying scripture will only be of value if I know the King who is its author or at least desire to meet him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

He did not start out as a thief. He was tempted to steal just like you and I are tempted.

Was Judas not called of God?

And he goeth up into a mountain, and calleth unto him whom he would: and they came unto him. And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,
Mark 3:13‭-‬14 KJV

Again, look at all who came in john 6: how many walked with a false sense of what was going on, and left when they realised jesus was not who they though they were

And agin, did Judas eat the bread from heaven where whoever ate it would never die?did he partake of the food which endured to eternal life or not?

 

[mailmandan]

Judas failed to temptation just like you and I.

Have you ever betrayed the Lord?

Are you saying the call of God on Judas was REVOKED?????

I thought you guys stood in solidarity that The gifts and the call of God is IRREVOCABLE???

Which is it? Obviously you cannot have it both ways

Romans 3:23 - All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. All have been tempted and failed at times, but that is not the point here. Romans 6:23 - The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Judas' betrayal was ultimate betrayal and was final. That is not the same thing as being tempted and failing at times or falling and rising again, as with the 11 remaining disciples when Jesus was arrested. (Matthew 26:31-35)

Romans 8:30 - and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. Judas was neither justified or glorified, so there is no contradiction here with Romans 11:29.

Now what call are you talking about?

 

[Goodnewsman]

Jesus called judas for one purpose and one purpose only

So that scripture may be fulfilled.

If judas ate the bread which came from heaven, he never would have done what he did, he was for the part of being a part of the glorious kingdom he envisioned, he was against the part of what jesus ultimate goal was.

Good morning

Jesus called judas for one purpose and one purpose only

So that scripture may be fulfilled.

If judas ate the bread which came from heaven, he never would have done what he did, he was for the part of being a part of the glorious kingdom he envisioned, he was against the part of what jesus ultimate goal was.

Was the call of God on the life of Judas to be one of the first ordained apostles

Jesus called judas for one purpose and one purpose only

So that scripture may be fulfilled.

If judas ate the bread which came from heaven, he never would have done what he did, he was for the part of being a part of the glorious kingdom he envisioned, he was against the part of what jesus ultimate goal was.

Was the call of God on the life of Judas to be one of the first ordained apostles and preacher of the Gospel REVOKED????

Not trying to be mean or facetious but from previous posts it looked like you all stood in solidarity that the call of God was IRREVOCABLE???