Not By Works
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This word perfect does not carry the idea we have of perfect in our modern usage.....it means complete or mature and lends toward the fact that as babes in Christ we are to mature in our walk and faith, grow spiritually to maturity and be transformed by the process described in Romans 12:1-2.....same word metamorphosis<----changed outwardly because of the inward change dia a study and application of the word of God
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Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
NIV1984 1 Corinthians 4:5-8 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and WILL EXPOSE THE MOTIVES OF MEN'S HEARTS. At that time each will receive his praise from God. Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “DO NOT GO BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another. For WHO MAKES YOU DIFFERENT FROM ANYONE ELSE? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, WHY DO YOU BOAST as though you did not? Already you have all you want! Already you have become rich! YOU HAVE BECOME KINGS—and that WITHOUT US! How I wish that you really had become kings so that we might be kings with you!
...God had planned something better for us so that only TOGETHER WITH US WOULD THEY BE MADE PERFECT. Hebrews 11:40
Judas was made an EXAMPLE of how people would betray Jesus by this wicked generation...GREED, LAWLESSNESS and UNBELIEF... ( see 2 timothy 3:1-5) contrary to the EXAMPLES that Jesus has set for us to follow...TO WALK IN LOVE (1 John 2:6 & 2 John 1:6
Why Judas?
If he did not do what was prophecied then prophecy would have failed and put God into shame which is IMPOSSIBLE.
If not Judas then God can pick anyone else to do that role but HE WAS CHOSEN for that role.
...For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. Romans 9:15,17-18
Another thing to consider, Judas was deceived by the devil just as Eve was deceived.
So don't let anyone DECEIVE you.
NIV1984 1 Corinthians 4:5-8 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and WILL EXPOSE THE MOTIVES OF MEN'S HEARTS. At that time each will receive his praise from God. Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “DO NOT GO BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another. For WHO MAKES YOU DIFFERENT FROM ANYONE ELSE? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, WHY DO YOU BOAST as though you did not? Already you have all you want! Already you have become rich! YOU HAVE BECOME KINGS—and that WITHOUT US! How I wish that you really had become kings so that we might be kings with you!
...God had planned something better for us so that only TOGETHER WITH US WOULD THEY BE MADE PERFECT. Hebrews 11:40
Judas was made an EXAMPLE of how people would betray Jesus by this wicked generation...GREED, LAWLESSNESS and UNBELIEF... ( see 2 timothy 3:1-5) contrary to the EXAMPLES that Jesus has set for us to follow...TO WALK IN LOVE (1 John 2:6 & 2 John 1:6
Why Judas?
If he did not do what was prophecied then prophecy would have failed and put God into shame which is IMPOSSIBLE.
If not Judas then God can pick anyone else to do that role but HE WAS CHOSEN for that role.
...For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. Romans 9:15,17-18
Another thing to consider, Judas was deceived by the devil just as Eve was deceived.
So don't let anyone DECEIVE you.
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Salvation is renewal and is ongoing until, "In the days of the voice of the seventh angels, when he shall begin to sound, the Mystery of God shall be finished as He has declares to Hi servants the prophets." "For we are saved if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end." We have a glimpse of the mystery of God by the Holy Spirit. The Mystery of God can't be attained in understanding: we don't know God in our understanding. Our works separate us from God as we become dominated by the fruit in pride of achievement: dominated by ego. "The grace of God has appeared to all men, that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts we should live godly righteously and soberly in this present world." "For this cause we both labour (work) and suffer reproach because we believe in Jesus Christ who is the saviour of all men, especially of them that believe."
For some to be saved is to retire from work: to retire from pride of achievement, retire from being your own boss.
Women don't have that problem, "They shall be saved in child bearing." They learn to love in bearing children. "Keep in mind salvation is not by works, I will get opposition here, mostly from men though. We know very well that Loving children is not work but more valuable than work and more difficult and that women are much more gifted here, neither should they have to work. We also know that men benefit little from work to grow in love, and have great expectations to be loved by their wives, and become disappointed and abusive like codependent children who did not grow up to see the Lord first and think they should be saved by works. We cant ad to the work of God, we are to know Him as a friend, the cross to bear is a sentence of death in ourselves, so that we don't lived in pride of achievement, to think we are better than others, to think we should be ruling with Him, this disqualifies us from working with Him as a servant of no reputation. Needs editing but we are out of time, and entering the time of trouble such as never was...
For some to be saved is to retire from work: to retire from pride of achievement, retire from being your own boss.
Women don't have that problem, "They shall be saved in child bearing." They learn to love in bearing children. "Keep in mind salvation is not by works, I will get opposition here, mostly from men though. We know very well that Loving children is not work but more valuable than work and more difficult and that women are much more gifted here, neither should they have to work. We also know that men benefit little from work to grow in love, and have great expectations to be loved by their wives, and become disappointed and abusive like codependent children who did not grow up to see the Lord first and think they should be saved by works. We cant ad to the work of God, we are to know Him as a friend, the cross to bear is a sentence of death in ourselves, so that we don't lived in pride of achievement, to think we are better than others, to think we should be ruling with Him, this disqualifies us from working with Him as a servant of no reputation. Needs editing but we are out of time, and entering the time of trouble such as never was...
The practice of the Presence of God:
“He has shown you O man what is good and what does the Lord requires of you: but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God."
God requires no great accomplishments from us, but to yield to Him who regards not great works but the lover in fellowship with Him. An inner Journey in admiration worship: doing unto Him what we commonly did for ourselves in work. With inner peace in His Presence we are not overwhelmed by fear in storms of life; sustained in temptation and deepening our relationship with God remain present with thanksgiving and overflowing outwardly as peacemakers. We have sufficient light not to premeditate what to say; having His influence in relationships that we may do as He please, to Love without expectations. “A servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be kind to everyone, patient in instructing those opposing themselves, that God may grant them repentance to acknowledge the Truth." We deceive ourselves thinking we have another time elsewhere to be in fellowship with God: "Let us fear since a promise left us of entering into His rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with Faith in them that heard it. For we who have believed do enter into rest." Consider it all Joy, pray without ceasing, in everything give thanks for this is the Will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you." "Praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints."
“He has shown you O man what is good and what does the Lord requires of you: but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God."
God requires no great accomplishments from us, but to yield to Him who regards not great works but the lover in fellowship with Him. An inner Journey in admiration worship: doing unto Him what we commonly did for ourselves in work. With inner peace in His Presence we are not overwhelmed by fear in storms of life; sustained in temptation and deepening our relationship with God remain present with thanksgiving and overflowing outwardly as peacemakers. We have sufficient light not to premeditate what to say; having His influence in relationships that we may do as He please, to Love without expectations. “A servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be kind to everyone, patient in instructing those opposing themselves, that God may grant them repentance to acknowledge the Truth." We deceive ourselves thinking we have another time elsewhere to be in fellowship with God: "Let us fear since a promise left us of entering into His rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with Faith in them that heard it. For we who have believed do enter into rest." Consider it all Joy, pray without ceasing, in everything give thanks for this is the Will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you." "Praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints."
LOL! I like you . . . You admit you are too lazy to read back . . . . Nah, you are not lazy: you are just afraid you will not find that said that I said there was a verse where someone had eternal life and lost it!
You are asking what I "believe"? That is not the point in this discussion! The point of this discussion is what does Scripture say about eternal life being able to be lost or not be lost.
My "belief" or your "belief" is not the starting point. Scripture is the starting point. The contention has been made that "eternal life" cannot be lost and that God cannot/will not take it back, etc. I maintain that if that is correct theology, then there should be a verse that clearly states it as such.
You are asking what I "believe"? That is not the point in this discussion! The point of this discussion is what does Scripture say about eternal life being able to be lost or not be lost.
My "belief" or your "belief" is not the starting point. Scripture is the starting point. The contention has been made that "eternal life" cannot be lost and that God cannot/will not take it back, etc. I maintain that if that is correct theology, then there should be a verse that clearly states it as such.
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no i really am lazy, and i dislike you now for making me go read these things back........... no just joking. i dont. but i really do dislike going back like this. its terrible.
But isnt this what happened: i started by asking you if there are verses like that, then you flipped the question on me, i answered, you disagreed with my view?
im still waiting for the verses that say eternal life can stop or be lost. Or salvation in general.
https://christianchat.com/goto/post?id=3855659
This is where our conversation started. So my question just as i expected wasnt misplaced! You didnt use the words "show me a verse where someone had eternal life and lost it"
You said:
So while you didnt say exactly that, the way you phrased that ^ suggests you believe there IS such a verse, since you ask us to give one that say it CANNOT be lost. That, and you say "if osas were true".
I in my opinion gave you such a verse, you just didnt agree with my view nor my interpretation, NOW its your turn to support what YOU believe.
Come on now.
But isnt this what happened: i started by asking you if there are verses like that, then you flipped the question on me, i answered, you disagreed with my view?
im still waiting for the verses that say eternal life can stop or be lost. Or salvation in general.
https://christianchat.com/goto/post?id=3855659
This is where our conversation started. So my question just as i expected wasnt misplaced! You didnt use the words "show me a verse where someone had eternal life and lost it"
You said:
So while you didnt say exactly that, the way you phrased that ^ suggests you believe there IS such a verse, since you ask us to give one that say it CANNOT be lost. That, and you say "if osas were true".
I in my opinion gave you such a verse, you just didnt agree with my view nor my interpretation, NOW its your turn to support what YOU believe.
Come on now.
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N
romans 8
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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Hi Chester,
OSAS means something specific.
If you read my post no. 86,226 you'd see that there are 3 types of beliefs and OSAS is just one of them.
As to accusing....I don't accuse....
What's happening is that I say obedience is necessary for santification....
Then I get told that nobody is saying otherwise....
And yet there are a few here who refuse to agree...
So, what are we arguing about??
This is confusing to me when I state what Sanctification means and I'm told they agree but then they post that obedience is not part of the deal, and so they don't really agree.
Could you read that post quick and tell me what you believe?
OSAS means something specific.
If you read my post no. 86,226 you'd see that there are 3 types of beliefs and OSAS is just one of them.
As to accusing....I don't accuse....
What's happening is that I say obedience is necessary for santification....
Then I get told that nobody is saying otherwise....
And yet there are a few here who refuse to agree...
So, what are we arguing about??
This is confusing to me when I state what Sanctification means and I'm told they agree but then they post that obedience is not part of the deal, and so they don't really agree.
Could you read that post quick and tell me what you believe?
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E
bu-bu-but it doesnt list the mighty free will there 
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God does not force people
I can only gather you can not comprehend that because you have never experienced christ
Those who have, would never desire to even think of thinking they do not need saved and walk away from what saves them.
Thats why the bible says those who walk away were never saved.
I can only gather you can not comprehend that because you have never experienced christ
Those who have, would never desire to even think of thinking they do not need saved and walk away from what saves them.
Thats why the bible says those who walk away were never saved.
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