Open Theism
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I was responding to what you wrote in post number 241:
"Only independent churches and sub denominations still preach the gospel message. Almost half of the country goes to church but only a splinter hear the gospel message."
of course, if we count only what is said from the pulpit during the homily, then we will achieve different results.
I was counting what the entire congregation said as well.
"Only independent churches and sub denominations still preach the gospel message. Almost half of the country goes to church but only a splinter hear the gospel message."
of course, if we count only what is said from the pulpit during the homily, then we will achieve different results.
I was counting what the entire congregation said as well.
The question is how many are following the liturgy. I agree that those who have not heard the gospel are doomed. Only the sub denominations are preaching the gospel message. I have experienced this with Lutheran and Presbyterian churches. Lutheran Missouri Synod is the gospel preaching sub denomination. Presbyterian PCA is the Presbyterian sub denomination. There are other sub denominations of Presbyterian and Lutheran denominations. You can Google them.
The congregation hears what is preached from the pulpit. What would they hear about Jesus? That he was a nice man or God incarnate living a sinless life and thus was the Unblemished Lamb of God on whom the sins of us were placed. Thus removing from those who accept his grace through faith in him to be freed from the consequences of our sins. Which version do they hear?
"The question is how many are following the liturgy."
I don't know how many Presbyterian churches are following a liturgy. I was talking about churches of any kind.
Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Episcopal and Anglican churches do liturgical services. It's just how they do Church. That liturgy would include the Nicene Creed every Sunday.
I don't know how many Presbyterian churches are following a liturgy. I was talking about churches of any kind.
Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Episcopal and Anglican churches do liturgical services. It's just how they do Church. That liturgy would include the Nicene Creed every Sunday.
The creeds were created between 212 and 500 defining what a Christian must believe. The early elders stated any Biblical issue outside of the creeds was to agree to disagree. Thus the many gospel preaching denominations and independent churches. The problem with them being the only message of Jesus they hear relagetes them to being an anachronism. Just something there. When I went to churches where this happened the sermons added to them reinforcing their statements. Without that reinforcement their meanings would be watered down.
The creeds were created as a method of evangelism. Keep in mind that until the printing press bibles were scarce and very expensive. Therefore the creeds were used as a memory tool for spreading the gospel message. Back then it was common to memorize large amounts of information. For example Jews memorized the Talmud until persecution killed too many of them so they wrote it down. History and lineage in many places was handed down this way. Today we rely on the written word thanks to the printing press.
If not preached from the pulpit how does the congregation know what the gospel message is? The congregation then has the ability to spread the message they receive from the pulpit. This is how evangelism works. In the 40 years being an elder and deacon in 3 Reformed theology churches, moved twice, I was involved in several evangelism workshops. What became clear is the best method is for a Christian to be a friend to non Christians. When that person sees something good about them and asks then and only then share the gospel message. Cold calling fails miserably. Been there done that. Pushing the gospel message on a non-Christian friend quite often drives them away. Thus waiting for them to ask usually is successful.
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yes
Now concerning brotherly love you have no need for anyone to write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to love one another, for that indeed is what you are doing to all the brothers throughout Macedonia. But we urge you, brothers, to do this more and more, and to aspire to live quietly, and to mind your own affairs, and to work with your hands, as we instructed you, so that you may walk properly before outsiders and be dependent on no one.
(1 Thessalonians 4:9-12)
(1 Thessalonians 4:9-12)
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Addendum
The KJV has a verse that is short and to the point about why cold calling normally fails. Other translations have a longer way of stating it. "The carnal mind is enmity against God." This is what cold calling is up against. Looking back at the times I was involved in cold calling it is a fact that I faced.
The KJV has a verse that is short and to the point about why cold calling normally fails. Other translations have a longer way of stating it. "The carnal mind is enmity against God." This is what cold calling is up against. Looking back at the times I was involved in cold calling it is a fact that I faced.
a common argument both of those who deny the divinity of Jesus Christ ((by attacking omniscience)) and of open theists who affirm that He is God, but wishing to show that God increases in knowledge, is made from pointing at Luke 2:52 (("Jesus grew in wisdom and stature.. ")) and drawing from it the inference that He cannot be infinite in wisdom and/or knowledge by the supposition that something which continually grows, broadens or accumulates cannot be at any given point in time, infinite in instantaneous measure.
i've put down some math in another thread which touches on this, because it takes a bit to write out, and i felt it kind of deserved its own topic -- but it is very relevant to open theist theology, so i'm putting a link here:
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/infinite.183198/
i've put down some math in another thread which touches on this, because it takes a bit to write out, and i felt it kind of deserved its own topic -- but it is very relevant to open theist theology, so i'm putting a link here:
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/infinite.183198/
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the congregation would hear those parts of the Nicene Creed which are essentially restatements of the beginning of 1st Corinthians 15, which Paul says is the gospel.
I don't doubt that befriending a person is the most efficient way to convert them to Christianity. I was talking about whether or not the gospel is proclaimed in many churches throughout the USA or only a few.
I don't doubt that befriending a person is the most efficient way to convert them to Christianity. I was talking about whether or not the gospel is proclaimed in many churches throughout the USA or only a few.